Time to Revisit a Conversation Fellas

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10-07-2013, 03:42 PM
BeastMan

Time to Revisit a Conversation Fellas

I made this post on 8/5:

Quote:

First off, I would like to say that I love all of our players and have to look strictly at statistical production to have a fair and balanced view. There are 2 guys in particular I want yall's opinion on.

1) Denico Autry- we all like to think that he is an elite pass rusher (5*). Last year he only had 4 sacks. I'll admit that he looked better at the end of the year. Buy or sell that if he has 0 sacks through our first 4 games, (all passing teams) we need to start Chris Jones at SDE. I say play CJ in very heavy doses at the minimum if Autry's production doesn't match our expectations for him.

2) Kaleb Eulls- For the love of everything holy, he saved a girl from a gun on a school bus; great guy. Last year he had 0 sacks & 1 TFL (year before he had 1 sack & 3 TFL). Buy or sell that if he has 0 TFL in our first 4 games, we need to start Quay Evans.

This is such an interesting topic to me. We have a want for our guys to produce like none other. If you were to show those stat lines to a fan of another school, it would be a no brainer b/c they don't have the passion that we do for these guys to succeed as individual players. When for these 2 is production a must? Where is their mendoza lines? Personally I would give Autry more leeway but goodness, he's a SR. I feel like its time to show me something or we should go to CJ.

Link> http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread...t=denico+autry

Now that we have played 5 games its time to look at this again. I will modify slightly to say that I like Chris Jones inside and I'd like to see more Ryan Brown and AJ Jefferson in place of Autry. Unless he does something drastic, his production is starting to suggest bust. In regard to Eulls, you could make the argument that he is the most unproductive player in MSU history and it probably wouldn't be far off. Neither have a sack. Autry has 1 TFL. I tried to tell yall all spring and summer that Preston Smith was our best DE... Eulls has 1 TFL in has last 20 starts, 0 this year.

Go back and see what you said in July. What say ye now?

I want to be clear that this post could make me sound kind of harsh but this is SEC ball. It's not about playing good guys who work hard and are great MSU ambassadors. Its about playing the guys that will help you win period.
10-07-2013, 03:47 PM
Political Hack

I thought Autry played well against LSU. He looked lost against OSU though and I honestly didn't notice him at Auburn.

Eulls... my momma always told me if I can't...
10-07-2013, 03:51 PM
Dawg61

The problem with this team is the defensive secondary not the DL.
10-07-2013, 03:53 PM
BeastMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

The problem with this team is the defensive secondary not the DL.

I don't disagree. 1 safety we can't help b/c of injury. I'd like to see more Deonte Evans in place of Whitley but even Whitley gets production. These 2 I mentioned preseason dont. CB will get a shot of life now that Redmond is available
10-07-2013, 03:56 PM
Barking 13

I thought Eulls had a pretty decent game... from what I saw...
10-07-2013, 04:03 PM
BeastMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barking 13

I thought Eulls had a pretty decent game... from what I saw...

He had 5 tackles bringing his season total to 7. Yes a decent game but that doesn't change the fact that he hasn't produced a negative play in 20 starts. A DL who hasn't had a TFL in 20 starts
10-07-2013, 04:03 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastMan

I don't disagree. 1 safety we can't help b/c of injury. I'd like to see more Deonte Evans in place of Whitley but even Whitley gets production. These 2 I mentioned preseason dont. CB will get a shot of life now that Redmond is available

Here's what everyone is missing out on when saying "our DLine is fine". Yes, our DLine is really good....so imagine what it would be if we replaced those 2 that aren't producing, and plugged in guys that are! It would be incredible. We are about to see teams start doubling our Stud Freshman DT, so we have to make them pay by getting more from guys like Eulls and Autry on each side of him. I was really impressed with AJ Jefferson's effort and play against LSU....so I wouldn't mind seeing Preston, Virges/PJ, CJ, and AJ/Ry.brown or some combination. I would really love to see Preston, Evans, CJ, Jefferson because all of those guys cause disruption damn near every time they are on the field.
10-07-2013, 04:07 PM
BeastMan

Exactly Cadever. AJ Jefferson has lived in the backfield. He made 1 incredible goal line TFL on his own. I'd like to see him get a chance to develop at end rather than watch a SR continue to not produce
10-07-2013, 04:08 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastMan

Exactly Cadever. AJ Jefferson has lived in the backfield. He made 1 incredible goal line TFL on his own. I'd like to see him get a chance to develop at end rather than watch a SR continue to not produce

Agree completely
10-07-2013, 04:11 PM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

The problem with this team is the defensive secondary not the DL.

Problems with either leads to problems with the other.

Fact is, 2 of 4 "starters" on the DL are really questionable at this point...and Beastman was right. Even in moving Eulls inside, he's been totally silent, which is somewhat surprising to me. There is no clear visible separation between Autry and Brown/Jefferson either...

The DB issues are at least partially injury and suspension-related. We've been pretty decimated back there -- and the amount of missed time has prevented us from gelling as units thusfar. Arrington barely played at all against LSU after missing the last 2 -- while Whitley has been out hurt as well -- and this has killed production from the entire group. Once the corners don't trust their over the top help, you see what you saw in the LSU game a bunch -- corners cheating deeper than they should and getting destroyed with curl routes.

All that is fixable. Just got to come up with a better option at FS than Nickoe at this point.
10-07-2013, 04:14 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

Problems with either leads to problems with the other.

Fact is, 2 of 4 "starters" on the DL are really questionable at this point...and Beastman was right. Even in moving Eulls inside, he's been totally silent, which is somewhat surprising to me. There is no clear visible separation between Autry and Brown/Jefferson either...

The DB issues are at least partially injury and suspension-related. We've been pretty decimated back there -- and the amount of missed time has prevented us from gelling as units thusfar. Arrington barely played at all against LSU after missing the last 2 -- while Whitley has been out hurt as well -- and this has killed production from the entire group. Once the corners don't trust their over the top help, you see what you saw in the LSU game a bunch -- corners cheating deeper than they should and getting destroyed with curl routes.

All that is fixable. Just got to come up with a better option at FS than Nickoe at this point.

Very good point about the DB's not trusting their over the top, so they cheat.....saw a ton of that against LSU
10-07-2013, 04:20 PM
Coach 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastMan

Exactly Cadever. AJ Jefferson has lived in the backfield. He made 1 incredible goal line TFL on his own. I'd like to see him get a chance to develop at end rather than watch a SR continue to not produce

I told you guys AJ was legit before the season started. Eulls is in over Quay/Chris because he is more athletic than the others (even Jones) which allows us to X stunt like we did when Preston creamed Mett. It allows for diversity in our starting base set. Don't confuse stats with defensive discipline. He is doing his job, otherwise Jones would start over him like a few times this year already. Another reason Chris started over him is because of game planning Vs the offensive scheme. What happens is the DT (him) can cover outside containment when they stunt. The reason it is important is simply because of what happened to UM Saturday night. They play for stats not for discipline which is why they lost. Marshall knew the DEs were not holding outside containment well (discipline) and Marshall had been told by their staff this same thing from watching film study. He destroyed them Saturday night on the zone read keeps they were too busy trying to get highlights & stats. They lost because of the lack of discipline.
10-07-2013, 04:29 PM
CadaverDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach 57

I told you guys AJ was legit before the season started. Eulls is in over Quay/Chris because he is more athletic than the others (even Jones) which allows us to X stunt like we did when Preston creamed Mett. It allows for diversity in our starting base set. Don't confuse stats with defensive discipline. He is doing his job, otherwise Jones would start over him like a few times this year already. Another reason Chris started over him is because of game planning Vs the offensive scheme. What happens is the DT (him) can cover outside containment when they stunt. The reason it is important is simply because of what happened to UM Saturday night. They play for stats not for discipline which is why they lost. Marshall knew the DEs were not holding outside containment well (discipline) and Marshall had been told by their staff this same thing from watching film study. He destroyed them Saturday night on the zone read keeps they were too busy trying to get highlights & stats. They lost because of the lack of discipline.

I hope Mullen learned from what OM did Saturday. If he did, then we will give them Dak all night on thanksgiving. So therefore, I am expecting Russell to start as a farewell, and lose.
10-07-2013, 04:29 PM
BeastMan

@Coach57

That's great analysis. That does make good sense that Eulls would allow more X stunts like you said since he can get outside and seal his edge. Tell me if I'm dead wrong but I just can't get over 4 TFL in 31 career starts. I know there is more to football than stats but goodness I can't get over that. I remember when Auburn made their NC run and they had a bad defense but Nick Fairly had like 22.5 TFL that year. He single handily disrupted enough to make them viable. I'm not asking for that level of performance but I watched as Dwayne Cherrington was ripped apart all year long on the boards and he was much more productive than Eulls.
10-07-2013, 04:41 PM
bocfarm

So far Autry has cost himself a chance at the next level...at least getting drafted
10-07-2013, 05:17 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

Problems with either leads to problems with the other.

Fact is, 2 of 4 "starters" on the DL are really questionable at this point...and Beastman was right. Even in moving Eulls inside, he's been totally silent, which is somewhat surprising to me. There is no clear visible separation between Autry and Brown/Jefferson either...

The DB issues are at least partially injury and suspension-related. We've been pretty decimated back there -- and the amount of missed time has prevented us from gelling as units thusfar. Arrington barely played at all against LSU after missing the last 2 -- while Whitley has been out hurt as well -- and this has killed production from the entire group. Once the corners don't trust their over the top help, you see what you saw in the LSU game a bunch -- corners cheating deeper than they should and getting destroyed with curl routes.

All that is fixable. Just got to come up with a better option at FS than Nickoe at this point.

The corners bailing and giving up everything short bodes on them. The only corner playing the position like he's being taught is Love. The others have played scared all year.
10-07-2013, 05:21 PM
bulldawg28

Beastman, I agree with your plan other than Richie Brown. He's been ok but he hasn't done anything to take anyone's spot just yet. Butttt he's getting more comfortable and is making more plays. However, I'd put Mckinney on the outside and move Skinner inside.
10-07-2013, 05:30 PM
BeastMan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Beastman, I agree with your plan other than Richie Brown. He's been ok but he hasn't done anything to take anyone's spot just yet. Butttt he's getting more comfortable and is making more plays. However, I'd put Mckinney on the outside and move Skinner inside.

I meant DE Ryan Brown. I don't want Richie at DE lol
10-07-2013, 05:42 PM
bulldawg28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastMan

I meant DE Ryan Brown. I don't want Richie at DE lol

My bad. That defense with Richie at DE May work against A&M.
10-07-2013, 06:34 PM
hacker

Man, this thread makes me want to come up with an all-time "MSU All No-Production-But-Inexplicably-Still-Starting Team"

MVPs would have to be Cherrington and Eulls.
10-07-2013, 06:34 PM
hacker

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeastMan

I meant DE Ryan Brown. I don't want Richie at DE lol

lol
10-07-2013, 09:48 PM
preachermatt83

Quote:

Originally Posted by hacker

Man, this thread makes me want to come up with an all-time "MSU All No-Production-But-Inexplicably-Still-Starting Team"

MVPs would have to be Cherrington and Eulls.

^^^ THIS!!!!!!! Eulls is just the epitome of unproductive. Denico is decent at times and awful at times.. my 4 starters are preston smith, quay evans, chris jones, and aj jefferson
10-07-2013, 10:09 PM
Coach 57

@Beastman, Cherry played the 1 tech DT (basically a soft NT) and Eulls at DE both were completely out of position IMO and honestly that alone was enough to cost Chris his job. So in that respect I agree. But next time you watch us on defense keep an eye on Eulls. He actually is playing ok. Not terribly like most think. I really kind of feel sorry for Kaleb. He has spent the majority of his career in the wrong position and 2 DL coaches. I do though agree that Autry is really regressing/stuck in neutral as far as his productivity. Especially seeing that AJ & Ry Brown seem to be more effective. I actually think we are loaded up front it's just RIGHT now our elite guys.....just happen to be VERY young & inexperienced. Just my thoughts, take them as you will. But stats are overrated ESPECIALLY in CFB.