Coach Henderson

So I get the hate in the 9th but a couple questions? First is were most fans happy with his coaching and teaching decisions compared to the previous year?
2nd question is based on the previous year why don?t you trust his decision making in a mid week game? My point is we walk the lead off hitter to start 9th. He brings in France and gets a k. He immediately brings in Smith who throws 2 curves that dude can?t handle but then he hangs a pitch that they hammer!! Next batter the same. I understand the results sucked but he put a pitcher in to pitch to their weakness and we left a ball over the hitting zone.
My point and main question is what do you do? And I understand that France strikes out 1 but are the next 2 outs guaranteed?

My main problem is having Neff start the 9th. If you know you're going to bring in France or Smith, let them pitch the beginning of the inning.

I have not read the game thread so don't know what's going on as far as opinions, but what you do is leave France in. Literally, he has been the most dominant pitcher in the league his last 13 batters. When Hindu walked out to get him, I looked at my buddy and said this is stupid.

Neff didn’t walk the lead off guy with bad pitches. I thought it was a great at bat. Actually thought Neff threw a seine or 2

Decision Science: The cognitive fallacy to avoid is "resulting". This term means that you weigh decision on the basis of results rather than on the soundness of the logic at the point-of-decision.

(1) Both coaches made decisions that backfired in the 9th, but that does not mean they were bad within the context of the situation.
(2) Basically, GH went for broke to get 3 outs. He thought Blake Smith was his firewall, but the firewall failed like Caracci failed.
(3) By the time we went to Cole Gordon - GH's idea that Neff, France, and Smith would be plenty for 3 damn outs -was a proven bad result - but those were our best 3 remaining relievers, they should have been able to get 3 outs.
(4) Let us recall the team we played has been rather successful this year, this was not a Morehead State (10 runs) or a Eastern Kentucky (12 runs) meltdown. This was a heavy-weight fight with an equally motivated opponent.

As far as epic meltdowns, we had plenty of those in 2015 with Butch and bigger meltdowns. By the way, Blake Smith was the losing pitcher against Morehead State and Eastern Kentucky. Not all Smith's fault, but he was also the losing pitcher in Arizona game-2 in 2016.

My verdict is that Smith is good, but not a true firewall. GH should have stayed with France after he got his first guy. But I did not disagree with Neff starting the 9th, he is a senior and a leader for his former team

I'm by no means a Henderson hater BUT what happened in the 9th is an example of why I sometimes don't like using a lot of pitchers for short outings. Especially in college there is always the likelihood that somebody won't have their best stuff...which is what happened with smith. I hate taking out a guy that's throwing well and def not tired for a guy that we hope has his best stuff.

I understand the thought of bringing in the closer also...but when running a bunch of guys out there it's a risk you take.

I think Henderson had 2 plans. Let Neff go and see if he could get 3. But I also think he had planned matchups in his mind in the 9th in case Neff couldn't do it. After the walk he put that plan in motion. That part I understand because I can get behind a short leash for a kid like Neff, especially if the plan is to bring in a 5th year senior like France next.

But once France came in and shut down his first batter, France should have stayed in. He was throwing gas and I liked him in that situation much better than Smith and way better than Gordon. That part I didn't understand. France should have stayed in and tried to finish the inning. If he gets in trouble, then put in Blake Smith. Only thought process that made sense was that Blake's stuff tends to lend itself to more ground balls which I get (unless you hang 'em like he did). But I still go with France there.

I would have gone to France when Neff got behind 2-0. I know coaches like to pitch to batter weaknesses and a lot of times it works but last night I felt Henderson was over thinking the situation. Luckily our bats saved the game but personally I thought it was a bad move as it was happening and it almost lost us the game. But hell if Blake strikes out the next two Henderson looks like a genius.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

I have not read the game thread so don't know what's going on as far as opinions, but what you do is leave France in. Literally, he has been the most dominant pitcher in the league his last 13 batters. When Hindu walked out to get him, I looked at my buddy and said this is stupid.

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Exactly!!!!

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Originally Posted by confucius say

When Hindu walked out to get him, I looked at my buddy and said this is stupid.

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My 12 year old daughter knew it was stupid. The only person that didn't know it was stupid was Henderson. That's the problem.

80% of the time he walks to the mound my immediate reaction is "damnit, what's he about to do now"

Neff should have never started the 9th. He did his job in the 8th and we had 2 guys ready. Start one of them in the 9th instead of hoping neff can sneak thru it. Hope is not a tactic

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Originally Posted by confucius say

80% of the time he walks to the mound my immediate reaction is "damnit, what's he about to do now"

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LOL, same. After his trip to the mound against Arkansas...grandslam.

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

My 12 year old daughter knew it was stupid. The only person that didn't know it was stupid was Henderson. That's the problem.

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The key word here being, "daughter," she knows how, "daddy." feels about said coach.

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Originally Posted by Percho

The key word here being, "daughter," she knows how, "daddy." feels about said coach.

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The only thing dumber was bianco putting the winning run on base in the 9th. She knows both of those calls were incredibly stupid.

We thought he was a pitching guru last year.

As far as Henderson and his decision making- it's apples and oranges being the pitching coach and the head coach. Plus last year our staff was so injury riddled that anyone would get a pass on that.

That may answer the second question.

But the thing about closers is right or wrong in this day and age most of them like to start with a clean inning. For them it's about preparation more than anything and knowing how to get ready mentally. There aren't very many Andrew Miller's in baseball that can just do whatever. And a lot of coaches like to define roles because it helps to reduce injuries because you don't want a guy throwing a complete game in the bullpen getting him up and down and that sort of thing.

If you by chance do start an inning with your LH guy and you have him face a RH hitter you only do that because you want your LOOGY to face the in this case LH hitter on deck. Henderson didn't do that- and while yes, France got the LH hitter out, why not just start with France if you're not going to match up with the LH hitter with your LOOGY? Or Smith since he's your closer. And sometimes you do even in this day and age have to go by feel a little bit. And the way France looked last night combined with how he threw the weekend before plus how Smith threw the weekend before I and I think most baseball managers would have stayed with France. France was according to the radar gun was throwing 95 and pretty much blew his guy away and looked pretty confident to me at that point.

I did think it was funny after the game that Henderson said he could see where Bianco was coming from with walking Mangum. That's usually a sign that the decision was pretty questionable.

I just don't think Henderson has a very good feel for the game and what to do in certain situations and it leads to craziness happening sometimes. I think he's a good pitching coach and to be honest from a strategy standpoint a bad manager. It's not mutually exclusive though.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

We thought he was a pitching guru last year.

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I still think he has done a good job as far as developing pitchers. France, Neff, Small, etc have all gotten better. It's managing a game that is his problem.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

As far as Henderson and his decision making- it's apples and oranges being the pitching coach and the head coach. Plus last year our staff was so injury riddled that anyone would get a pass on that.

That may answer the second question.

But the thing about closers is right or wrong in this day and age most of them like to start with a clean inning. For them it's about preparation more than anything and knowing how to get ready mentally. There aren't very many Andrew Miller's in baseball that can just do whatever. And a lot of coaches like to define roles because it helps to reduce injuries because you don't want a guy throwing a complete game in the bullpen getting him up and down and that sort of thing.

If you by chance do start an inning with your LH guy and you have him face a RH hitter you only do that because you want your LOOGY to face the in this case LH hitter on deck. Henderson didn't do that- and while yes, France got the LH hitter out, why not just start with France if you're not going to match up with the LH hitter with your LOOGY? Or Smith since he's your closer. And sometimes you do even in this day and age have to go by feel a little bit. And the way France looked last night combined with how he threw the weekend before plus how Smith threw the weekend before I and I think most baseball managers would have stayed with France. France was according to the radar gun was throwing 95 and pretty much blew his guy away and looked pretty confident to me at that point.

I did think it was funny after the game that Henderson said he could see where Bianco was coming from with walking Mangum. That's usually a sign that the decision was pretty questionable.

I just don't think Henderson has a very good feel for the game and what to do in certain situations and it leads to craziness happening sometimes. I think he's a good pitching coach and to be honest from a strategy standpoint a bad manager. It's not mutually exclusive though.

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Yep. Last paragraph spot on

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

As far as Henderson and his decision making- it's apples and oranges being the pitching coach and the head coach. Plus last year our staff was so injury riddled that anyone would get a pass on that.

That may answer the second question.

But the thing about closers is right or wrong in this day and age most of them like to start with a clean inning. For them it's about preparation more than anything and knowing how to get ready mentally. There aren't very many Andrew Miller's in baseball that can just do whatever. And a lot of coaches like to define roles because it helps to reduce injuries because you don't want a guy throwing a complete game in the bullpen getting him up and down and that sort of thing.

If you by chance do start an inning with your LH guy and you have him face a RH hitter you only do that because you want your LOOGY to face the in this case LH hitter on deck. Henderson didn't do that- and while yes, France got the LH hitter out, why not just start with France if you're not going to match up with the LH hitter with your LOOGY? Or Smith since he's your closer. And sometimes you do even in this day and age have to go by feel a little bit. And the way France looked last night combined with how he threw the weekend before plus how Smith threw the weekend before I and I think most baseball managers would have stayed with France. France was according to the radar gun was throwing 95 and pretty much blew his guy away and looked pretty confident to me at that point.

I did think it was funny after the game that Henderson said he could see where Bianco was coming from with walking Mangum. That's usually a sign that the decision was pretty questionable.

I just don't think Henderson has a very good feel for the game and what to do in certain situations and it leads to craziness happening sometimes. I think he's a good pitching coach and to be honest from a strategy standpoint a bad manager. It's not mutually exclusive though.

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I have noticed all season that Hendo has not paid any attention to the lefty, lefty and the righty, rightiy thing.

Now Henderson has more responsibilities other than just working with pitchers, setting up their rotation, etc. He has also had to deal with emotional player issues due to the Cann fiasco I still think he would rather be a pitching coach, and wanted to help MSU, Cohen and the team out by accepting the interim position. He entered a tough situation. I think he is a good pitching coach when he is strictly a pitching coach, and not having to devote his duties to HC responsibilities.

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

Now Henderson has more responsibilities other than just working with pitchers, setting up their rotation, etc. He has also had to deal with emotional player issues due to the Cann fiasco I still think he would rather be a pitching coach, and wanted to help MSU, Cohen and the team out by accepting the interim position. He entered a tough situation. I think he is a good pitching coach when he is strictly a pitching coach, and not having to devote his duties to HC responsibilities.

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We're also down one coach from everyone else essentially too. No offense to whatever grad assistant took Cann's place.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

As far as Henderson and his decision making- it's apples and oranges being the pitching coach and the head coach. Plus last year our staff was so injury riddled that anyone would get a pass on that.

That may answer the second question.

But the thing about closers is right or wrong in this day and age most of them like to start with a clean inning. For them it's about preparation more than anything and knowing how to get ready mentally. There aren't very many Andrew Miller's in baseball that can just do whatever. And a lot of coaches like to define roles because it helps to reduce injuries because you don't want a guy throwing a complete game in the bullpen getting him up and down and that sort of thing.

If you by chance do start an inning with your LH guy and you have him face a RH hitter you only do that because you want your LOOGY to face the in this case LH hitter on deck. Henderson didn't do that- and while yes, France got the LH hitter out, why not just start with France if you're not going to match up with the LH hitter with your LOOGY? Or Smith since he's your closer. And sometimes you do even in this day and age have to go by feel a little bit. And the way France looked last night combined with how he threw the weekend before plus how Smith threw the weekend before I and I think most baseball managers would have stayed with France. France was according to the radar gun was throwing 95 and pretty much blew his guy away and looked pretty confident to me at that point.

I did think it was funny after the game that Henderson said he could see where Bianco was coming from with walking Mangum. That's usually a sign that the decision was pretty questionable.

I just don't think Henderson has a very good feel for the game and what to do in certain situations and it leads to craziness happening sometimes. I think he's a good pitching coach and to be honest from a strategy standpoint a bad manager. It's not mutually exclusive though.

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So riddle me this Todd. Self is healthy and ready to go according to his family members. Why no Self sightings at all when we are trying to make a postseason run? Henderson is showing this year why he?s not ready to be a HC again and why Kentucky fired him. I?ve been extremely disappointed with his coaching this year.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We're also down one coach from everyone else essentially too. No offense to whatever grad assistant took Cann's place.

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Henderson should of just let Gautreau take over lineups and who to put who where on the field and Henderson stick to the pitching side. We would be in a hell of a lot better shape and possibly a 2 seed.

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Originally Posted by yjnkdawg

Now Henderson has more responsibilities other than just working with pitchers, setting up their rotation, etc. He has also had to deal with emotional player issues due to the Cann fiasco I still think he would rather be a pitching coach, and wanted to help MSU, Cohen and the team out by accepting the interim position. He entered a tough situation. I think he is a good pitching coach when he is strictly a pitching coach, and not having to devote his duties to HC responsibilities.

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He’s washed up and way past his days of being the SEC COY in 2012.