Joe Moorhead and our RB's

I've seen the discussion about Fitz vs. Key being the starter next year. But the real discussion should be whether or not Kylin Hill should start for us next year over Aeris. One of the advanced football analytics web sites found that Hill had the third highest elusiveness rating of any returning RB in the SEC.

Now, I don't think Aeris should be benched. I would like to see us use a two running back system though- which is something that Dan didn't like to do. I noticed that Joe didn't do that a lot at Penn State, however he also had a special talent in Saquon Barkley and I can't really fault him for not splitting reps with him.

That's something that I am interested in seeing this spring and also next season is how Joe uses our running backs.

I’m thinking a lot of folks are gonna be pleasantly surprised by what we see out of A-train next year. I think we saw a little of it in the bowl game because he definitely looked quicker. But yea, no question that Hill is gonna get his carries next year. Maybe we have the makings of a poor man’s Chubb/Michel on our hands.

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Originally Posted by Dildoes

I’m thinking a lot of folks are gonna be pleasantly surprised by what we see out of A-train next year. I think we saw a little of it in the bowl game because he definitely looked quicker. But yea, no question that Hill is gonna get his carries next year. Maybe we have the makings of a poor man’s Chubb/Michel on our hands.

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I love aeris. I do not see anyone getting more carries than him this year. You right too... he was more explosive in bowl.

If Moorhead is looking for the explosive back that will give him more Hill may beat out Williams. Williams leaves too many yards on the field falling after cuts and breaks. He slashes for 4-5 yards easily which makes him a great short yardage, goaline, and wear-down 4th qtr back. However, those plays where he goes 8 yards and slips after cutting Hill will take it 20 yards and potentially a TD. Williams may start due to leadership but Hill plays 50% of the time imo.

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

If Moorhead is looking for the explosive back that will give him more Hill may beat out Williams. Williams leaves too many yards on the field falling after cuts and breaks. He slashes for 4-5 yards easily which makes him a great short yardage, goaline, and wear-down 4th qtr back. However, those plays where he goes 8 yards and slips after cutting Hill will take it 20 yards and potentially a TD. Williams may start due to leadership but Hill plays 50% of the time imo.

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Did aeris leave a bunch of yards on the field? Maybe so, I am far from a rb expert. I do know this though... aeris rarely gets less than 3-4 yards. That is critical... we led the sec in 3rd down convergence rate in part (big part) to aeris keeping us in 3rd and short

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Did aeris leave a bunch of yards on the field? Maybe so, I am far from a rb expert. I do know this though... aeris rarely gets less than 3-4 yards. That is critical... we led the sec in 3rd dorm convergence rate in part (big part) to aeris keeping us in 3rd and short

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Aeris is a great back we're fortunate to have him. From the eye test Hill is more explosive. What I mean by "leaving yards on the field" is he falls alot after alluding defenders or trying to cut. Williams is a great straight line runner. Hill however wouldn't fall on those cuts and extend those plays for more yards.

Joe's scheme doesn't use two backs ever. I suppose he could always do something new, but I would be shocked. The entire system is based on just about 4 or 5 different formations. The pre snap and post snap options are numerous, but our fans are going to have to get use to seeing the same looks when we first line up.

As for Aeris and Hill, I absolutely think Hill could end the season with more touches than Aeris. Aeris is a good running back that routinely turns a 1 yard carry into a 3 or 4 yard carry. I think he also turns a 12 yard carry into a 3 or 4 yard carry sometimes. I think as the year goes on we will see more and more carries go to Hill even though he may not start any of the first several games or all season for that matter.

3rd and 2 Aries......2nd and 5 Hill.

I say go You tube and watch Penn State offense and then make an opinion.

When Kylin gets the vision that Aeris has he's going to be very special. That's the separation between the 2 right now. Aeris patience & vision is superior right now. Kylin is going to get that & when he does All SEC will follow.

Aeris seems to be the most under appreciated MSU back I can remember. Has rushed for over 2000 yards in his career with an avg ~ 5 yards per carry.

Everyone loves boobie (and they should). Boobie rushed for 3994 career yards with an avg of 4.4 per carry.

If aeris rushes for the same amount of yards this season as last, he will be our 3rd leading rusher, ever. Only Norwood and boobie will have done better.

I know everybody hates when blocking is mentioned about running backs. But last year Aeris was far superior compared to Hill in both pass protection and run blocking.

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

If Moorhead is looking for the explosive back that will give him more Hill may beat out Williams. Williams leaves too many yards on the field falling after cuts and breaks. He slashes for 4-5 yards easily which makes him a great short yardage, goaline, and wear-down 4th qtr back. However, those plays where he goes 8 yards and slips after cutting Hill will take it 20 yards and potentially a TD. Williams may start due to leadership but Hill plays 50% of the time imo.

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This.

Hill could be another transcendent JRock/Boobie type back when he was the experience. But, and I’m about to get roasted, in my 31 years, Josh Robinson is the best back we’ve had from a pure talent, cut, elusive, quickness, standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

Hill could be another transcendent JRock/Boobie type back when he was the experience. But, and I’m about to get roasted, in my 31 years, Josh Robinson is the best back we’ve had from a pure talent, cut, elusive, quickness, standpoint.

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Stats sorta back it up. Norwood avg 5.6 for career with best year at 6.0 and worst at 5.3. Boobie avg 4.4 for career with best at 5.4 and worst at 3.7. JRob avg 6.2 with best year at 6.3 and worst at 5.9.

These probably are not completely fair bc Norwood never played for Mullen. Norwood would have most likely got a big boost per carry like boobie did. Still, boobie did play for Mullen 1 year, and his avg that year was was .5 worse than JRob worst year

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Stats sorta back it up. Norwood avg 5.6 for career with best year at 6.0 and worst at 5.3. Boobie avg 4.4 for career with best at 5.4 and worst at 3.7. JRob avg 6.2 with best year at 6.3 and worst at 5.9.

These probably are not completely fair bc Norwood never played for Mullen. Norwood would have most likely got a big boost per carry like boobie did. Still, boobie did play for Mullen 1 year, and his avg that year was was .5 worse than JRob worst year

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Yeah, the numbers do. JRob is sorta taboo around here now.

A-Train is the back next year. Look for him to have a huge year in the new offense. Its a good chance he is 4th roundish pick next year.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

Yeah, the numbers do. JRob is sorta taboo around here now.

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That?s because everyone finally realized Mullen probably had legit reasons not to play JRob, but no one wants to admit it.

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Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw

I know everybody hates when blocking is mentioned about running backs. But last year Aeris was far superior compared to Hill in both pass protection and run blocking.

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Yep, and that's why he played more. If that continues he will continue to play more. If Hill adds that to his game then he very well might take a few, or more than a few, carries away from Williams.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That?s because everyone finally realized Mullen probably had legit reasons not to play JRob, but no one wants to admit it.

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Unfortunately this is correct.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That?s because everyone finally realized Mullen probably had legit reasons not to play JRob, but no one wants to admit it.

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If he?d had his head on straight, he?s be the best we ever had.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That?s because everyone finally realized Mullen probably had legit reasons not to play JRob, but no one wants to admit it.

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Those same issues are probably why he isn't on a NFL roster also.

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

Aeris is a great back we're fortunate to have him. From the eye test Hill is more explosive. What I mean by "leaving yards on the field" is he falls alot after alluding defenders or trying to cut. Williams is a great straight line runner. Hill however wouldn't fall on those cuts and extend those plays for more yards.

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I don?t know if I?ve ever disagreed with you on football stuff before, and I?m not necessarily disagreeing with you now, but there?s a ton of value in having a guy that?s going to avoid negative plays and find 3+ yards over and over again. AW is that guy. Hill is certainly more explosive, but he?ll also lose yards if an OL loses a block. AW will find a way to get something positive.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That?s because everyone finally realized Mullen probably had legit reasons not to play JRob, but no one wants to admit it.

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Dan was definitely an asshole to him at times as well too. I don't think one more carry against Kentucky to get 200 yards would have hurt anyone. I also remember Dan crawling up Josh's ass for throwing up a landshark during the 2013 Egg Bowl. I don't remember him doing that to Pernell McPhee even though McPhee got a penalty or any of the other myriad of players who have landsharked Ole Miss through the years.

Whatever Josh did it wasn't bad enough for him to not be at least second string and come back after he left the team.

Also- more food for thought. Joe used a lot of two back sets at Fordham. I really think we're going to see that with us. It sounds to me like Penn State was somewhat limited with their personnel to a degree.

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

Hill could be another transcendent JRock/Boobie type back when he was the experience. But, and I?m about to get roasted, in my 31 years, Josh Robinson is the best back we?ve had from a pure talent, cut, elusive, quickness, standpoint.

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IMO, JRob is 3rd behind only JJ Johnson & J Norwood in ranking our best RB’s in the last 20 years

This some dumb shit. Aeris had 1,100 yards rushing last year. Hill had 393 yards rushing. Sometimes the starting RB is the starter for a reason. This is one of those times.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

I don?t know if I?ve ever disagreed with you on football stuff before, and I?m not necessarily disagreeing with you now, but there?s a ton of value in having a guy that?s going to avoid negative plays and find 3+ yards over and over again. AW is that guy. Hill is certainly more explosive, but he?ll also lose yards if an OL loses a block. AW will find a way to get something positive.

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I agree, Hill had a few freshmen moments throughout last year. Williams is a great back I take nothing from him. It's just faster solid defenses he struggles due to lack of speed and change of direction. However, I was surprised he was surprised in the Bama game with Williams he really shined. But was that due to Bama playing #42 the majority of the game? I think so. Normally he struggles against those types of defenses due to speed. I think back to A&M two years ago with Myles Garrett, Bama every year with the exception of this one, and Georgia. Any fast defense he disappears. The game that made that crystal clear to me was Georgia this past year. Williams was getting swallowed up big time with his typical side step shuffle. Hill came into the game and Georgia struggled containing him due to his explosiveness and quickness. Hill is the answer to beating the Georgia's, Florida's, and Bama's of the world. He's speed with power.


And don't worry about disagreeing with me. I don't know It all. Just more than coach..lol.

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

I agree, Hill had a few freshmen moments throughout last year. Williams is a great back I take nothing from him. It's just faster solid defenses he struggles due to lack of speed and change of direction. However, I was surprised he was surprised in the Bama game with Williams he really shined. But was that due to Bama playing #42 the majority of the game? I think so. Normally he struggles against those types of defenses due to speed. I think back to A&M two years ago with Myles Garrett, Bama every year with the exception of this one, and Georgia. Any fast defense he disappears. The game that made that crystal clear to me was Georgia this past year. Williams was getting swallowed up big time with his typical side step shuffle. Hill came into the game and Georgia struggled containing him due to his explosiveness and quickness. Hill is the answer to beating the Georgia's, Florida's, and Bama's of the world. He's speed with power.


And don't worry about disagreeing with me. I don't know It all. Just more than coach..lol.

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Aeris had 11 carries for 56 yards vs bama in 2016

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Aeris had 11 carries for 56 yards vs bama in 2016

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Good point - our running game problems in games like Bama and UGA aren?t as much player related as they were Dan related. Dan?s game plan gave us a pattern of fall behind quickly by 14-21; then rely on passing and QB runs. That limited his use of RBs - even if they were being productive (like your stat illustrates).

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Aeris had 11 carries for 56 yards vs bama in 2016

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56 yards mostly in the 4th quarter is success? We're a running team that could get nothing the entire day.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Good point - our running game problems in games like Bama and UGA aren?t as much player related as they were Dan related. Dan?s game plan gave us a pattern of fall behind quickly by 14-21; then rely on passing and QB runs. That limited his use of RBs - even if they were being productive (like your stat illustrates).

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You do not beat Bama with a big 10 style back.

Aeris will play because he is a Sr that does all the little things you need as a RB.
Hill will play because he is an explosive RB with NFL talent.

The rest? Not so much

Aeris Williams is the best RB on the roster. Why is it hard to admit/see that?

Like 34 said Hill is good and going to be great, but its not his time. Both will play and we will see both on the field at the same time some. Just like Fitz/Key

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

You do not beat Bama with a big 10 style back.

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It?s funny how short memories people have. Dan?s gameplan against Bama this year was completely different then the past. We committed to the run and had success - as much success as anyone else had against Bama all year. 42 rushes for 172 yards. It was pretty much straight up the middle pounding - like Big 10 football. No, we didn?t win. But, it was as close as Dan ever came.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

It?s funny how short memories people have. Dan?s gameplan against Bama this year was completely different then the past. We committed to the run and had success - as much success as anyone else had against Bama all year. 42 rushes for 172 yards. It was pretty much straight up the middle pounding - like Big 10 football. No, we didn?t win. But, it was as close as Dan ever came.

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It actually wasn't. Bama had their 3rd string Middle backer playing. He couldn't tackle a sole if his life depended on it. It was so bad they took him out and replaced him with a true freshman. And we still lost

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Originally Posted by bulldawg28

It actually wasn't. Bama had their 3rd string Middle backer playing. He couldn't tackle a sole if his life depended on it. It was so bad they took him out and replaced him with a true freshman. And we still lost

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Keith Holcombe who started for them was a 4 star MLB that committed to Bama over us. Hes actually not bad, you have to be good to get on the field at Bama and hes always on it whether its special teams or defense. We didnt lose bc we couldnt run the ball, we lost bc Mullen once again didnt have a plan to actually win the game when it came down to it. Our last offensive drives when we were up and when they tied it were pathetic. He shit himself bc we actually were in position to win and he didnt have a plan for it