Not Malik. Not tookie. Not brooks. Boy, we really could use simonds. He dropped 29 on OM tonight. Wish we had this kid
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Not Malik. Not tookie. Not brooks. Boy, we really could use simonds. He dropped 29 on OM tonight. Wish we had this kid
10-22 shooting with 7 turnovers. I don't even know who he is though, did we cut him loose at some point to sign someone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Edit: Looking at his recruiting profile, it seems like we did. Who did we sign that pushed him out of our class?
Poor bears had to overcome an 8 point halftime deficit to win by 5 against mighty Ga State.
Not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
Didn?t realize he shot so poorly tonight. I only watched part of it and it was to see him. He got to to the basket pretty easily the portion of the game I watched. Kid has talent.
There's always going to be some misses in college basketball. Stansbury had something like 35 misses between 2004-2012. That was players that he signed that quit/got kicked off/transfered/or flat out sucked and had no business playing SEC basketball. If we counted the ones Stansbury didn't even sign and passed up on it'd be 3x that amount. Howland is doing very well on limiting the misses so far imo.
An old Stans quote: The guys you miss don't hurt you, it can be the guys you sign. Ended up being prophetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
But not so well on winning, not yet anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
It wasn't a "miss." It was pretty simple, he was a Rick Ray recruit and once we fired him Simonds de-committed.
Stansbury fired himself when he refused to fire any of his assistants. Stricklin didn't go into the meeting with intentions of firing Stansbury. Rick left him no choice when he gave Stricklin an ultimatum. Rick Stansbury got 14 seasons as a head coach at MSU. He made over $25 mill dollars while at MSU. He is now set for life because of MSU. He did not make it to one single sweet sixteen in that timeframe. Fourteen seasons is enough for a guy that let his team do whatever the **** they wanted and refused to take direction from his athletic director in terms of replacing an assistant coach. Wouldn't do it. So we let him go and it was ABSOLUTELY the right call. You need to put it to bed. Let it go. Stansbury doesn't deserve to be our coach forever. Fourteen seasons is enough. Do not bitch about Stansbury being fired anymore he fired himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
I wouldnt say he got away. When you play on a team that don't have equal or better talent than you, your game will appear better. Guarantee you if Eli Wright played on Florida A&M he would be scoring 15-20 a night.
This is a very good point. Tyson Carter is another player that would be lighting it up in the Sun Belt. Off topic but I am not sold that Newman is a better player than Carter. I could make a strong argument that Tyson is the better 2 guard than Malik. Tyson's biggest issue is that Q/Peters demand all the minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg-gone-dawgs
Dang! This makes two times in a row I gotta give 61 an "amen"!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Fact remains we still haven't equaled his last season in what is it, 7 years now? I won't argue that Stans was headed out, but we did it one year too quick. Water under the bridge now. I'd just like to get back where we were. Maybe this is the year. If Howland can't get us there, we really are in trouble.
By the way, how many Sweet 16s has MSU appeared in? I think the number is TWO, back to back years under Richard Williams. Now if the Babe had been allowed to go to the tourney every year, we might have had 1-3 more. It's not like we are a basketball powerhouse.
I'll repeat it cause you still aren't accepting it. Rick Stansbury fired himself when he gave Stricklin the double birds by refusing to replace any of his assistants. There was no "one more year" once Rick made a line in the sand. There was nothing Stricklin could do except to fire him at that point. Had Stricklin not fired him he would have then been firing himself instead. There's only a very small fringe of you that still don't understand this which is confusing as you love to spout off about how much you know about business. Well this is the most basic of all business. When your boss demands you to do something and you refuse to do it you are firing yourself. This is the number one most basic rule of any business anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Stands has only been gone 5 years. 3 for Ray and 2 for HowlandQuote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Whatever 61, you obviously know everything about everything. Had we waited another year, things would have been better. I know how MSU people felt. I also know how it was perceived by those outside the MSU family. Strick should have waited one more year before he forced the issue. His replacement options would have been better if we had fired Rick after a bad season. WE were the only ones that thought Rick's last one was a bad one for us. My non-MSU friends thought we we had gone nuts. I DO think we would have sucked the next year under Stans. I said so at the time. We would have had more options had we waited. Cue up 34 and others to deny this, but I have a DAMN good source on basketball. He has never been wrong, and was spot on on everything that happened, before it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
PS.....WE were the only ones that thought the Sydney debacle was a debacle. Everybody else thought it was amusing and mildly embarrassing, if they even noticed. The only thing they noticed in all of it was the fight. I know the story there, we canned the right guy.
Seems like 10. I hate sucking at basketball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
In retrospect I'll buy this because the 2013 team under Stands would have been God-awful and it would have shown it was more than time. We should have let him bottom out like we usually do in the other sports- then guys like you wouldnt have anything to hang your hat onQuote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
you are insane. People from all over wondered how he still had a job. You have lost touch with reality. It's not often Sporting News calls a program the "most dysfunctional team in America". We were a joke to most people. Just wowQuote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
I'll put it this way:
Coaches from all over knew that Sidney couldnt go on our European trip because of his drug problems. We sent him to Texas to work with John because he had a coke problem. Coaches all over the SEC knew this was going on in our program. And thats why nobody wanted the job when it came open. They knew we had a tremendous drug problem within our team. It's also why we told Ray to run off the ones that failed drug tests that Summer- losing 3 more players before practice even started. We were a ****ing dumpster fire because of your boy Stands
That was my point 34........at the time. We all knew where we were headed that next year, but nationally people didn't. We were perceived as firing a coach based on unrealistic expectations because had just had a 20 win NIT season. Outside the MSU family that was seen as a decent season for us. That kind of crap is kryptonite for a coaching search.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
No, they didn't 34. MSU people from all over did, encouraged by the usual suspects. Most basketball people, outside the media, thought we pulled the trigger too soon. The results since then say it all. The first coaching search went exactly as I, and my source, predicted. Getting rid of Rick for ANY coach did NOT solve our problem. You told me it would, in those exact words. As I said, it's all water under the bridge now. Hopefully Howland gets us back to the NIT this year. I've never been a consistent season ticket holder in football, my late Dad and I had them for 25 years in basketball. It hurts me to see us as we are. I have a lot of great memories of my Dad and me during the Williams and Stans years. Those were good years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
If I am wrong about something I have zero issues admitting it. I am wrong often. Being wrong is the best way to learn and eventually being right. Your issues is not with Stansbury being fired it's that Stricklin came to the end of the year meeting with Stansbury demanding he replace an assistant. This is were your anger lies. That's fine by me as Stricklin then went rogue on the search and hired Rick Ray himself. Something every single one of us disagreed with then and still disagrees with now. Stricklin no doubt fumbled the **** outta the situation. However he did accomplish hiring an AA coach for MSU which is something we desperately needed to do and he hired a coach that totally gutted the program, cleaned out all the drug problems and started anew which is also something we desperately needed to have happen. He then hired Ben Howland. An excellent hire that will result in being our greatest hire in basketball ever this I am still confident of but just like most things in life it takes longer than we want it to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Here we go again. We chose Rick Ray just as we chose Croom over Jimbo Fisher. He wasnt our only option- just a very bad choice. Alot of coaches passed because of our known drug problems and our AD making coaches aware of it. But our bad decision had zero to do with pulling the trigger on Stands. People all over knew the chaos within our program. Coaches laughed at Stands for letting Sidney own his ass as we walked up the floor on national TV. You just dont get it because you dont want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Strick forced it one year too soon. I was glad to see him leave. I hope you are right about Howland being our best ever basketball hire. Right now I would say it was Williams, and you probabaly have NO idea how underwhelming THAT one was. My roomie at the time was an ex-MSU basketball player. He was floored. I broke the news to him and he was like, you have to be joking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
While this part is probably true, what really screwed the pooch was the shittastic hire we replaced Stans with. Hiring RR is what set us back, not firing Stans a year early. Rick Ray was a colossal fu<k up on our part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
My source, and again my source is impeccable, you have NO idea how impeccable, has always maintained that we DID have other options. Unfortunately they were all about on the same level as Ray. I DO get it about Sid, I hated his lazy butt, probably more than you did. When I saw his last basketball destination I had to laugh, I have been to PEI. It's about as far from the center of the basketball universe as you can get. Coaches DID laugh at what we did with Sid, but the national perception was given what Stans had done here he deserved at least a year without him to right the ship. That we didn't give him that ruined any chance we had of making a good hire to replace him. That is FACT. You can blame Strick, and I DO, but not for the same reason you do. He forced the issue one year too soon. I find it hilarious that he is embroiled in kind of the same situation at Florida, on a much bigger scale. I don't think for a minute he was the one that fired the football coach, but it's a lot like Stans, the previous guy is coming off two straight eastern division championships. He just couldn't beat Saban and his postion became untenable, because they expect him to beat Saban. Never mind that nobody else doesn't do it much either when it really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The fact that it was one year too soon is directly related to how bad the hire was.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
Oh my God....I remember there was some presser before Sid's last year, and some media guy asked Stans "why he was having trouble getting in shape", and Stans just replied with "it is what it is"....What the **** is that suppose to mean? I vividly remember yelling that out loud as I listened to the PC. Then I realized that the "is what it is" he spoke of was actually just a lazy as **** euphemism for being a limp dick pushover. I was really embarrassed for him in that moment. More embarrassing, however, was Stans being the only SEC coach who voted to keep the divisions, because he knew those 'West Banners' he coveted so much were the only things keeping him employed.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I digress.
I'm not saying there were options out there that would've made a splash, but RR was a no-body before we hired him (shit, he still is...). There absolutely were more qualified people out there we could've hired or at least taken a flyer on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
The same reasoning they used to do away with the divisions in basketball could be used now in football, but they aren't. nor should they be. I HATE what basketball scheduling is now. I actually love the regional alignment in football except for one thing. Missou needs to be in the WEST where it belongs, and Auburn needs to be in the East. The ONLY reason this hasn't happened is UT and BAMA.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
That's just it, there were NO splash hires available for us. Ray, or his equivalent, was the best we could do. My source was INVOLVED. We screwed the pooch with the TIMING of the firing. The hiring of Ray, bad as it was, wasn't the screw up. We did the best we could. Strick was wet behind the ears, and it showed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeardoMSU
From the time Stricklin sat down with Stansbury to the time he fired Ray in basketball he absolutely dropped the ball in the basketball coaching search. We are just now recovering from Stricklin's dumbassedry. Scott Drew the Baylor coach wanted our job. Kenny Payne wanted to bring World Wide Wes and start Kentucky 2.0 here but probably even dirtier. Joe Dooley wanted our job and he's had 4 straight 20 win seasons at FGCU. Kermit Davis wanted our job and he won 31 games last year with MTSU. Stricklin took it upon himself to hire Ray though. Literally nobody in the country knew who Rick Ray was. Perhaps Stricklin caught word that the NCAA was wanting to come after us after years of speculation about Stansbury being dirty and thought it best to pull a Croom type hire. Who knows as only Stricklin does. Move on from the frustration of that process though. Stricklin has. He's now worried about hiring Florida's football coach. He couldn't give two shits about Stansbury and you shouldn't either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
This is just flat wrong. Scott Drew, Kenny Payne, Kermit Davis, Joe Dooley, John Brady, Sean Woods, Phil Cunningham, Robert Kirby all wanted our job and all of them woulda been way better hires than Rick Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Are you SERIOUSLY arguing we should have brought WWW in? My arguments are based on my source 61. What he says AIN'T rumor 61. What he says is FACT. I have others. My impression from all of them is that Rick actually lost the team LONG before Sid ever set foot on campus. That's why I laugh at all you idiots that blame Sid. Heck he wasn't the REAL troublemaker on THAT team when it came to disrespecting the coaches. I had a great up close view of the bench during those years. The REAL trouble was a bit shorter. My old coach Dad spotted it quick, and it was obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
LOL. You don't know jack. My guy does. $$$$$$$$Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Point to the part in my post where I said I wanted WWW to run our basketball program. Dee Bost was the main locker room problem. It isn't some super secret mystery only a few are privy to knowing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Well well, you ain't totally stupid then. (Kenny would have meant WWW though) Had we waited ONE year things would have been different. Strick caved, and it cost him. That's why I'm laughing at him now. If Mullen follows him to Florida, and I DO NOT see that happening, he deserves all that he would eventually get down there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
As for Bost, you are one of the very few I have ever seen that recognized THAT, and it was freaking obvious. Rick lost the locker room before he ever set foot on campus though. People like you and 34 may eventually recognize that what you THINK I have argued all these years isn't what you think. My only arguement was timing. At Kentucky or Kansas it may be understandable running a coach off after a NIT year, nationally it isn't at a place like MSU.
Well you're gonna have to talk to Stansbury about that one year you got robbed off cause he's the one that stepped down. He wasn't fired technically. He resigned. He chose to resign over replacing any of his assistants. Your angst is with Stricklin for demanding he let an assistant go and it is ALSO with Rick Stansbury for choosing to resign instead of having to tell one of his buddies he was letting them go. Nobody expected Stansbury to choose resigning over firing an assistant. Not even Stricklin saw it coming. That's why the basketball search was so ****ed from the beginning. It was a way for Stansbury to stick it to Stricklin. It worked. So a big reason for MSU sucking in basketball for the last five years is because of Rick Stansbury. Had he fired an assistant it would of allowed Stricklin a full year to start searching for a replacement and things would have been much different or hell Rick mighta actually saved his own career the next season. Nobody will know though because Stansbury decided to be a bitch about it and he quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
Yep firing Stansbury and hiring Rick Ray was a genius move.