LSU by the numbers, Pre-Saban.

This week's Tiger meltdown inspired me to do a little statistical research. All statistical analysis seems to be biased of course so no I didn't go back into the hay day of the 1950s and 1960s, but I did go a back a generation, which I define as 25 years, and found some interesting results. For context I will compare these categories to another Mystery SEC school over the same period. The period is the 25 seasons prior to Nick Saban taking the reins at LSU, 1975-1999.

W/L/T

Louisiana State: 158-122-7

Mystery School: 142-138-3

Win Percentage

Louisiana State: .564

Mystery School: .507

Average Regular Season Record

Louisiana State: 6-5

Mystery School: 6-5

Total Winning Seasons (Defined as Finishing Regular Season Above .500

Louisiana State: 14

Mystery School: 12

Bowl Appearances

Louisiana State: 13

Mystery School: 7

SEC Championships (Before Divisional Format Began in 1992)

Louisiana State: 2

Mystery School: 0

SEC Division Championships (After Divisional Format Began in 1992)

Louisiana State: 0

Mystery School: 1

Neither School won an SEC Championship after Divisional Play began.

The head to head record between the schools was 14-11 in favor of LSU and of course, as all of you figured out quickly, the Mystery School was Mississippi State University.

Because it is universally accepted that poor little MSU is a perennial lower tier SEC school and seems to be the unwavering barometer by which every one else is measured (you know...down year and stuff. Cough. Ahem. BS) it seemed only fitting to compare Louisiana State University's football performance over the quarter century prior to the Reign of Saban to that of Mississippi State University. No question that LSU looks a smidgen better over that period, but the gap is small. The days of being an elite powerhouse had long since been left behind when Saban became the LSU head football coach. This had not been an elite program for at least a generation. The Saban Effect lasted his tenure (2000-2004) plus another 4-7 seven years, depending on how you look at it. Now they are back to normal and although their situation of being the only game in town in their state is more desirable and does help recruit itself to some degree, they will be not be unbeatable/elite and all that crap until an elite coach comes along.

This is LSU without Saban. It is still a better situation than ours but not by much.

Good job ..kinda puts it into perspective...

Good work.

It does appear that LSU is "regressing to the mean" but I'm not totally positive why LSU's history prior to Saban was so average.

- They have every conceivable resource you need
- They appear to care and want it more that UGA and Texas who have similar resources.
- They don't really have to recruit against anyone instate.

My only explanation for why LSU is historically only a slightly above average program is that somehow iron sharpens iron and that, while not having a instate recruiting rival may seem advantageous, it's actually to your detriment because it makes you lazy, entitled, etc. perhaps in the same way that war instigates technological advancements, an instate rival keeps you on your toes and forces you to advance or be destroyed.

Auburn and Alabama have fueled each other for years, Florida State and Florida have mostly done the same.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

This week's Tiger meltdown inspired me to do a little statistical research. All statistical analysis seems to be biased of course so no I didn't go back into the hay day of the 1950s and 1960s, but I did go a back a generation, which I define as 25 years, and found some interesting results. For context I will compare these categories to another Mystery SEC school over the same period. The period is the 25 seasons prior to Nick Saban taking the reins at LSU, 1975-1999.

W/L/T

Louisiana State: 158-122-7

Mystery School: 142-138-3

Win Percentage

Louisiana State: .564

Mystery School: .507

Average Regular Season Record

Louisiana State: 6-5

Mystery School: 6-5

Total Winning Seasons (Defined as Finishing Regular Season Above .500

Louisiana State: 14

Mystery School: 12

Bowl Appearances

Louisiana State: 13

Mystery School: 7

SEC Championships (Before Divisional Format Began in 1992)

Louisiana State: 2

Mystery School: 0

SEC Division Championships (After Divisional Format Began in 1992)

Louisiana State: 0

Mystery School: 1

Neither School won an SEC Championship after Divisional Play began.

The head to head record between the schools was 14-11 in favor of LSU and of course, as all of you figured out quickly, the Mystery School was Mississippi State University.

Because it is universally accepted that poor little MSU is a perennial lower tier SEC school and seems to be the unwavering barometer by which every one else is measured (you know...down year and stuff. Cough. Ahem. BS) it seemed only fitting to compare Louisiana State University's football performance over the quarter century prior to the Reign of Saban to that of Mississippi State University. No question that LSU looks a smidgen better over that period, but the gap is small. The days of being an elite powerhouse had long since been left behind when Saban became the LSU head football coach. This had not been an elite program for at least a generation. The Saban Effect lasted his tenure (2000-2004) plus another 4-7 seven years, depending on how you look at it. Now they are back to normal and although their situation of being the only game in town in their state is more desirable and does help recruit itself to some degree, they will be not be unbeatable/elite and all that crap until an elite coach comes along.

This is LSU without Saban. It is still a better situation than ours but not by much.

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"Mystery School University"....

I'll allow it.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Good work.

It does appear that LSU is "regressing to the mean" but I'm not totally positive why LSU's history prior to Saban was so average.

- They have every conceivable resource you need
- They appear to care and want it more that UGA and Texas who have similar resources.
- They don't really have to recruit against anyone instate.

My only explanation for why LSU is historically only a slightly above average program is that somehow iron sharpens iron and that, while not having a instate recruiting rival may seem advantageous, it's actually to your detriment because it makes you lazy, entitled, etc. perhaps in the same way that war instigates technological advancements, an instate rival keeps you on your toes and forces you to advance or be destroyed.

Auburn and Alabama have fueled each other for years, Florida State and Florida have mostly done the same.

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I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

The head to head is skewed by the fact that Jackie had no clue how to beat them. The LSU team we barely beat with our 10-2 team in Starkville was 2-9 that year.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

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Will someone explain MMDL?

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Originally Posted by Drugdog

Will someone explain MMDL?

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My Merciful Dark Lord

http://static4.businessinsider.com/i...ll-dynasty.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

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Don?t forget mike archer lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

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Don't forget Archer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

My Merciful Dark Lord

http://static4.businessinsider.com/i...ll-dynasty.jpg

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Thanks!

I give Archer a pass.... while his OA record wasn't great (~.600), he at least had a winning SEC record and a 10 win season....

Hallman and Dinardo were arguably LSU's 2 worst coaches ever... Back to back train wrecks...

91-99 were dark, dark, years for Tigahs....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I give Archer a pass.... while his OA record wasn't great (~.600), he at least had a winning SEC record and a 10 win season....

Hallman and Dinardo were arguably LSU's 2 worst coaches ever... Back to back train wrecks...

91-99 were dark, dark, years for Tigahs....

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Naw, Tusk each year he was there was worse than the last. He went 10-1,8-4, 4-7,5-6. He was mediocre.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I give Archer a pass.... while his OA record wasn't great (~.600), he at least had a winning SEC record and a 10 win season....

Hallman and Dinardo were arguably LSU's 2 worst coaches ever... Back to back train wrecks...

91-99 were dark, dark, years for Tigahs....

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You?re right about Hallman and Dinardo. They sucked

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I give Archer a pass.... while his OA record wasn't great (~.600), he at least had a winning SEC record and a 10 win season....

Hallman and Dinardo were arguably LSU's 2 worst coaches ever... Back to back train wrecks...

91-99 were dark, dark, years for Tigahs....

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Well unfortunately there was one team they had a winning record against during that time frame.

So, LSU is our real rival now.***

I remember going to LSU in the 80s and beating them easily. Score wasn't great but we won.

What's the Other Mississippi school's record the past 25 years?

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Originally Posted by SailingDawg

I remember going to LSU in the 80s and beating them easily. Score wasn't great but we won.

What's the Other Mississippi school's record the past 25 years?

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During the same period, 25 years before Saban?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

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And that's the point. Without an elite coach LSU is generally a winner but nothing special.

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

And that's the point. Without an elite coach LSU is generally a winner but nothing special.

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They fired one of the most successful coaches in their history for the hell of it.

Tennessee did the same with Fulmer. Now Tenn has Clay Travis saying stupid stuff like...fire Butch after the Bama game. So he can't coach the end of the schedule and get to 9-3. Therefore giving UT a reason to keep him. Good grief.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

They fired one of the most successful coaches in their history for the hell of it.

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Charlie Mac would tell ya this isn't new for L6U... He was arguably LSU greatest coach ever (sans MMDL, of course)...

Also, it's "L6U"... at least until early November....

My daughter graduated from there and I considered the campus a dump...the non athletic buildings were not maintained ...the greater BR area is crime riddled...she witnessed a murder at a stoplight and well as having her car broken into numerous times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I have a couple of potential explanations why LSU sucked so bad just prior to MMDL's arrival.

1. Curley Hallman
2. Gerry Dinardo

All-Time (Pre Saban) LSU was a Top 15-20 Nationally and prolly #3 in the SEC (it's close tween LSU, UGA, AU)

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And unexplainably we were not that good against these 2 coaches either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

They fired one of the most successful coaches in their history for the hell of it.

Tennessee did the same with Fulmer. Now Tenn has Clay Travis saying stupid stuff like...fire Butch after the Bama game. So he can't coach the end of the schedule and get to 9-3. Therefore giving UT a reason to keep him. Good grief.

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Miles rode Saban's coat tails for years, they didn't fire him for the hell of it, they fired him because he was an idiot. The problem is that they hired a bigger idiot.

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Originally Posted by TimberBeast

Miles rode Saban's coat tails for years, they didn't fire him for the hell of it, they fired him because he was an idiot. The problem is that they hired a bigger idiot.

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They gave the "bigger idiot" a $12 million buyout. The biggest idiot is the AD.

I remember the bumper stickers after they hired Curley Hallman. They said "Crazy 'bout Curley". After after about two seasons, they started printing bumper stickers that said "Curley 'bout crazy"

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Originally Posted by Ezsoil

My daughter graduated from there and I considered the campus a dump...the non athletic buildings were not maintained ...the greater BR area is crime riddled...she witnessed a murder at a stoplight and well as having her car broken into numerous times.

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LSU student from Jackson was murdered in BR years ago. I believe the suspect was caught and prosecuted.

LSU was smart enough to leave their Indian mounds alone, rather than build a stadium on top of them. But I'll tell ya...seems like them dead injuns down there are starting to stir a bit.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The head to head is skewed by the fact that Jackie had no clue how to beat them. The LSU team we barely beat with our 10-2 team in Starkville was 2-9 that year.

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Bellard knew how to beat them. He beat them 4 straight times with John Bond and the wishbone.

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Originally Posted by SailingDawg

LSU student from Jackson was murdered in BR years ago. I believe the suspect was caught and prosecuted.

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Derrick Todd Lee. Fortunately, the SOB had a heart attack and died in Angola.