Thinking About Mullen's Contract

I just wanted to get some feedback on this line of thinking.

It's clear IMO that next 5 years are an unprecedented opportunity for MSU's football when considering the history of the program.

- We have 7 players in the rankings of the top 200 players in the NFL

- We may be about to sign a top 20 recruiting class

- Our rival is a mess & about to go on massive probation

- We should be able to absolutely dominate in-state recruiting over the next 5 years

- We have 4 star QBs already committed that should get us through the next 6 years

- We have top notch DC

- ETC

Basically, my line of thinking is that the biggest threat to MSU taking advantage of the unprecedented opportunity that the next 5 years present, is coaching in-stability. Due to that, & I realize this may be unpopular, but, with the A&M, Auburn, Tennessee, & possibly Notre Dame jobs coming open in the next year or so, would you consider raising Mullen's salary to $6 mil or so just to insure that he's untouchable to other programs?

I realize you never want to negotiate out of fear of losing a coach & that 6+ mil per year is way above the market rate for a coach like Mullen, but the next 5 years present an unprecedented opportunity that may never happen again in our life times. We are absolutely set-up over the next 5 years to compete at a level that none of us have ever witnessed & I just can't imagine how frustrated we would all be if that opportunity was wasted due to coaching instability.

So do you make sure Mullen is financially untouchable now, or do you play with fire with risk being that we are potentially wasting this opportunity due to coaching instability?

What say you?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I just wanted to get some feedback on this line of thinking.

It's clear IMO that next 5 years are an unprecedented opportunity for MSU's football when considering the history of the program.

- We have 7 players in the rankings of the top 200 players in the NFL

- We may be about to sign a top 20 recruiting class

- Our rival is a mess & about to go on massive probation

- We should be able to absolutely dominate in-state recruiting over the next 5 years

- We have 4 star QBs already committed that should get us through the next 6 years

- We have top notch DC

- ETC

Basically, my line of thinking is that the biggest threat to MSU taking advantage of the unprecedented opportunity that the next 5 years present, is coaching in-stability. Due to that, & I realize this may be unpopular, but, with the A&M, Auburn, Tennessee, & possibly Notre Dame jobs coming open in the next year or so, would you consider raising Mullen's salary to $6 mil or so just to insure that he's untouchable to other programs?

You realize you never want to negotiate out of fear of losing a coach, but the next 5 years presents an unprecedented opportunity that may never happen again in our life times. We are absolutely set-up over the next 5 years to compete at a level that none of us have ever witnessed & I just can't imagine how frustrated we would all be if that opportunity was wasted due to coaching instability.

So do you make sure Mullen is financially untouchable now, or do you play with fire with risk being that we are potentially wasting this opportunity due to coaching instability?

What say you?

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Remember that our coach has children that have established themselves in their school, church and community... All LOVED by them..... The family, from what I am told, loves it here....

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Originally Posted by Mimi's Babies

Remember that our coach has children that have established themselves in their school, church and community... All LOVED by them..... The family, from what I am told, loves it here....

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Which I totally believe, but I'm not sure it's worth playing with fire. In normal times, I'd say he isn't worth paying 6 mil per year yet, but these aren't normal times.

The next 5 years present the opportunity of a generation for this program & coaching stability in which to build upon is absolutely worth the extra money to me right now, particularly with the QB recruiting being what it is & his role in getting those commits

Let's see how we come out of this season.

Big time programs aren't going to look at 1 or 2 Million dollars and not go after the coach they want. If Dan puts us in the playoff for a few years or puts us to winning 10 games every year then we are at risk. The big time programs aren't coming after a guy that isn't either putting up 10 win seasons regularly or putting together top 5 - 10 recruiting classes regularly. IMO, giving him a raise to try to prevent other teams coming after him is just throwing away money.

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Let's see how we come out of this season.

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May be too late then. I don't see this season as much to do with it.

From a big picture perspective, I'm looking at the landscape of our recruiting + OM going on probation, & our program is at an all-time health level RIGHT NOW as we enter into an unprecedented era of being able to dominate in-state recruiting.

With our QB commits already lined up for the next 6 years, I just don't see what this year has to do with it.

You pay coaches for what they are going to do, not what they have done.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

I just wanted to get some feedback on this line of thinking.

It's clear IMO that next 5 years are an unprecedented opportunity for MSU's football when considering the history of the program.

- We have 7 players in the rankings of the top 200 players in the NFL

- We may be about to sign a top 20 recruiting class

- Our rival is a mess & about to go on massive probation

- We should be able to absolutely dominate in-state recruiting over the next 5 years

- We have 4 star QBs already committed that should get us through the next 6 years

- We have top notch DC

- ETC

Basically, my line of thinking is that the biggest threat to MSU taking advantage of the unprecedented opportunity that the next 5 years present, is coaching in-stability. Due to that, & I realize this may be unpopular, but, with the A&M, Auburn, Tennessee, & possibly Notre Dame jobs coming open in the next year or so, would you consider raising Mullen's salary to $6 mil or so just to insure that he's untouchable to other programs?

I realize you never want to negotiate out of fear of losing a coach & that 6+ mil per year is way above the market rate for a coach like Mullen, but the next 5 years present an unprecedented opportunity that may never happen again in our life times. We are absolutely set-up over the next 5 years to compete at a level that none of us have ever witnessed & I just can't imagine how frustrated we would all be if that opportunity was wasted due to coaching instability.

So do you make sure Mullen is financially untouchable now, or do you play with fire with risk being that we are potentially wasting this opportunity due to coaching instability?

What say you?

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You're overthinking this quite a bit. To make him truly financially untouchable, we'd have to pay him about $10 million, which would be absurd. There's no one out there that will pay $5 million but won't pay $6 million if they want him. Within 2 years, everybody in the SEC is going to be making $6 million just like everyone is in the $4.5-5 million range now. He has a top 15 salary. If he wants to leave, it won't be about money. We give him raises based on performance and sustained success. Just like we've always done.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

May be too late then. I don't see this season as much to do with it.

From a big picture perspective, I'm looking at the landscape of our recruiting + OM going on probation, & our program is at an all-time health level RIGHT NOW as we enter into an unprecedented era of being able to dominate in-state recruiting.

With our QB commits already lined up for the next 6 years, I just don't see what this year has to do with it.

You pay coaches for what they are going to do, not what they have done.

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This is pretty much universally false. It'd be nice to know what a coach is going to do and pay them for that. But most of the time, you don't know what a coach is going to do, so you pay them based on what they've done. Les Miles continued to get paid as a national championship winning coach even after he stopped performing at that level. Mullen didn't get paid $4M+ when he started at state because he was going to put us on a long bowl streak and take us as high as a number one ranking.

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Let's see how we come out of this season.

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Thanks Larry.

He's already priced at a point where not many are going to be able to out pay what we are now. So, I would keep him where he is now and then pay up if someone else actually offers more.

That's the whole reason he is still here.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

He's already priced at a point where not many are going to be able to out pay what we are now. So, I would keep him where he is now and then pay up if someone else actually offers more.

That's the whole reason he is still here.

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We are happy with the shape of our program but he is probably fired somewhere else if he led them to #1 and then collapsed down the stretch. Then followed that season up with making the Belk Bowl with the best QB in MSU history at the helm and then a 5-7 record. A big program isn't paying him 6-10 Million for those results which is the price it would take to get him out of MSU. He was already basically priced out of Maryland, Virginia, and Miami and that was with a lower buyout because of years off his contract.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

So do you make sure Mullen is financially untouchable now, or do you play with fire with risk being that we are potentially wasting this opportunity due to coaching instability?

What say you?

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I like where you're thoughts are but like others said, an extra $1M won't do much to deter big schools. I think where it could be focused is the assistants salaries and getting some continuity especially on the defensive side.

Assuming Grantham's defense shows promise this year, I'd rather spend some money to have some stability at the DC position.

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Originally Posted by dparker

I like where you're thoughts are but like others said, an extra $1M won't do much to deter big schools. I think where it could be focused is the assistants salaries and getting some continuity especially on the defensive side.

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Originally Posted by RunDog26

Assuming Grantham's defense shows promise this year, I'd rather spend some money to have some stability at the DC position.

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This. We need to pay our assistants comparably with the rest of the conference. And I'd give my left nut for a coaching change on the OL.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

He's already priced at a point where not many are going to be able to out pay what we are now. So, I would keep him where he is now and then pay up if someone else actually offers more.

That's the whole reason he is still here.

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I have no idea why more of our fans don't understand this. Mullen is being paid like a Top 15 HC. No one is going to pay him more until he starts being competitive against Bama and winning big games against LSU, Auburn, etc. He hasn't done enough for the blue bloods to splash the cash for him and he's making too much for anyone else to poach him. If he leaves, it'll be for one of two reasons: 1) He finally gets over the hump and gets several big wins, including over Bama or 2) He wants a new challenge. That's it. He either makes us better or he moves on by choice.

We could always use the money TSUN is giving up in bowl revenue the next few years to give him a raise........look at it as TSUN giving Mullen a raise! That should sting a few Bears.

I think our biggest threat will be Notre Dame. I don't see him leaving MSU for another SEC school. Doesn't make sense. With Notre Dame, it's not a money issue but I believe it's his dream school to coach at. Not sure one or two million more dollars a year would make a difference in that regard.

It's already starting in recruiting. It looks like we have a great shot to end up with the top 7 kids in MS this year, and plenty of the rest of the top 20.

I'd pay him whatever it takes to keep him... typically I wouldn't feel that way but with OM down and dan starting to become a coach recruits are wanting to play for, I say we do whatever it takes.

No point in paying more because OM is about to get hammered. The two are mutually exclusive IMO. Only thing that should matter is what Dan does as a coach this year and the next. If someone wants to pay him 5-6 million we can either counter then or let him go. He's a good coach and I have always been a big Dan fan but you better be winning a bunch of games if you expect to get a 1.5-2 million dollar raise just because our rival went on probation.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Big time programs aren't going to look at 1 or 2 Million dollars and not go after the coach they want. If Dan puts us in the playoff for a few years or puts us to winning 10 games every year then we are at risk. The big time programs aren't coming after a guy that isn't either putting up 10 win seasons regularly or putting together top 5 - 10 recruiting classes regularly. IMO, giving him a raise to try to prevent other teams coming after him is just throwing away money.

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Exactly. Mullen makes at or over 5 mil right now. An extra 750k - 1 mil won't keep a school with deeper pockets from coming after him and ponying up. Hell, if we are too belive some people Maryland was getting ready to pay him 6 mil a year. Maryland.

I say let it play out and then if they feel negotiations are in order we go for it. It's obvious, though, that Cohen knows what the hell he is doing.

If Notre Dame offered, he's gone no matter what, and I wouldn't blame him. Dan needs to get this year and next under his belt with a definitive direction of our program before he gets any big time raise.

Why exactly is Notre Dame his dream job? All we heard was that Penn State was his dream job because he grew up with his dad watching their games. I know he was a GA at Notre Dame but it wasn't like he was there for a while. He actually makes more than Brian Kelly does and their facilities aren't better than what he has now or could get. I just don't understand the draw of ND I guess. As far as I know, he isn't Catholic either so you don't have that issue out there.

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Originally Posted by Coursesuper

Thanks Larry.

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Sorry not Larry.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

We are happy with the shape of our program but he is probably fired somewhere else if he led them to #1 and then collapsed down the stretch. Then followed that season up with making the Belk Bowl with the best QB in MSU history at the helm and then a 5-7 record. A big program isn't paying him 6-10 Million for those results which is the price it would take to get him out of MSU. He was already basically priced out of Maryland, Virginia, and Miami and that was with a lower buyout because of years off his contract.

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This is true but we have a lot of alumni that are happy with winning the Egg Bowl and going to the Liberty Bowl. Dan has pretty much done that most years. And certainly more consistently than any other coach. No fan base remembers "how bad" seasons like Tech and 10 and 2003 were more than MSU.

I will say that I think Stricklin was probably not a good AD for Dan professionally in that I'm not sure that he knew how to push him and challenge him. I think when he left and Cohen took over, we started to see changes with Dan almost immediately- upsetting Texas A&M in Starkville and a different demeanor on the sideline which was welcome. I do think that Ole Miss cheating like they were was a factor because it has to be frustrating to build a program the right way with hard work and lead for a lot of the players that they were flipping. Dan probably sees the same opportunity that most of us do as well. Another factor was I think Dan viewed us at one time as a stepping stone- but like some of us find out sometimes the best paying job and best situation is the one you currently have. The problem for Dan was he misevaluated some in recruiting around 2013 or so and he had to lay in his bed that he made so to speak.

I think he's through that identity crisis stage as a head coach and will be committed to us going forward unless the NFL or Notre Dame comes calling.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

I have no idea why more of our fans don't understand this. Mullen is being paid like a Top 15 HC. No one is going to pay him more until he starts being competitive against Bama and winning big games against LSU, Auburn, etc. He hasn't done enough for the blue bloods to splash the cash for him and he's making too much for anyone else to poach him. If he leaves, it'll be for one of two reasons: 1) He finally gets over the hump and gets several big wins, including over Bama or 2) He wants a new challenge. That's it. He either makes us better or he moves on by choice.

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A lot of it is the old MSU mentality that doesn't understand that it isn't 2003 anymore. We've raised our profile quite a bit for the good- but I think it's hard for some of our fans to grasp that because we've been told to expect losing and sucking except for a few special seasons. So, winning is kind of shocking. It's just how college football has changed since the rise of the power five conferences.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Why exactly is Notre Dame his dream job? All we heard was that Penn State was his dream job because he grew up with his dad watching their games. I know he was a GA at Notre Dame but it wasn't like he was there for a while. He actually makes more than Brian Kelly does and their facilities aren't better than what he has now or could get. I just don't understand the draw of ND I guess. As far as I know, he isn't Catholic either so you don't have that issue out there.

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Mainly because of their history and tradition which = resources. If they ever had a coach that had a pipeline to IMG Academy they could definitely become relevant again. If Hevesy hates recruiting Mississippi, wait until he has to recruit nationally. I'm not sure that he would go there to be honest though. I actually think we could give them a run for their money if it happened.

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Originally Posted by dparker

I like where you're thoughts are but like others said, an extra $1M won't do much to deter big schools. I think where it could be focused is the assistants salaries and getting some continuity especially on the defensive side.

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Excellent point Parker, reward assistants that have good quantifiable results with that extra million, create initiative. RESULTS = $ That extra million right now is not going to make any difference, nobody is hiring anybody right now. John Cohen is a smart man and knows way more than any of us about coaches salaries. I am sure he has a strategy to reward Mullins for positive results.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I think our biggest threat will be Notre Dame. I don't see him leaving MSU for another SEC school. Doesn't make sense. With Notre Dame, it's not a money issue but I believe it's his dream school to coach at. Not sure one or two million more dollars a year would make a difference in that regard.

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Nah MBully, ND is paying B. Kelley 1.6M, Dan ain't going there

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Excellent point Parker, reward assistants that have good quantifiable results with that extra million, create initiative. RESULTS = $ That extra million right now is not going to make any difference, nobody is hiring anybody right now. John Cohen is a smart man and knows way more than any of us about coaches salaries. I am sure he has a strategy to reward Mullins for positive results.

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The easiest way to do that is an incentive laden contract. Which is possibly what he has now.

Hev will keep him from all those other jobs. Everyone including Florida knows that Hev is Mullen's guy. No one will hire Mullen because they've heard about Hev and knows he's a nonnegotiable. Thank Hev for providing us with coaching security.

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Let's see how we come out of this season.

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No worries. The administration won't do anything until the season is over.

Mullen in a good and bad spot. If he wanted to keep a job until he retires and make a lot of Jack he is in the right spot however if he want's to move into the big time there is only a hand full of schools who have the money to pay him more then what he is making here. He is really going to have to do something special to move up. There will be some big money school have openings next season. This season could be the make or break for Mullen.

6 Million Dollar a year coaches don't lose to South Alabama.....

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Basically, my line of thinking is that the biggest threat to MSU taking advantage of the unprecedented opportunity that the next 5 years present, is coaching in-stability. Due to that, & I realize this may be unpopular, but, with the A&M, Auburn, Tennessee, & possibly Notre Dame jobs coming open in the next year or so, would you consider raising Mullen's salary to $6 mil or so just to insure that he's untouchable to other programs.

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I too have been wondering about the Notre Dame job. I believe Dan was a Grad assistant there. They make a run if he has a great year.