Coaching change - really ??

Jackie Sherrill:

1991 Mississippi State 7-5 4-3 T4th L Liberty
1992 Mississippi State 7-5 4-4 3rd (West) L Peach 23
1993 Mississippi State 4-5-2 3-4-1 4th (West)
1994 Mississippi State 8-4 5-3 2nd (West) L Peach 25 24
1995 Mississippi State 3-8 1-7 4th (West)

first 5: 29-27-2 17-21-1

1996 Mississippi State 5-6 3-5 4th (West)
1997 Mississippi State 7-4 4-4 T?3rd (West)
1998 Mississippi State 8-5 6-2 1st (West) L Cotton
1999 Mississippi State 10-2 6-2 2nd (West) W Peach 12 13
2000 Mississippi State 8-4 4-4 T?3rd (West) W Independence 22 24
2001 Mississippi State 3-8 2-6 6th (West)
2002 Mississippi State 3-9 0-8 5th (West)
2003 Mississippi State 2-10 1-7 5th (West)
Mississippi State: 75-75-2 43-59-1

Sylvester Croom:

Year Team Overall Conference Standing Bowl/playoffs
Mississippi State Bulldogs (Southeastern Conference) (2004?2008)
2004 Mississippi State 3-8 2-6 6th (West)
2005 Mississippi State 3-8 1-7 T5th (West)
2006 Mississippi State 3-9 1-7 6th (West)
2007 Mississippi State 8-5 4-4 T3rd (West) W Liberty
2008 Mississippi State 4-8 2-6 T4th (West)
Mississippi State: 21-38 10-30
Total: 21-38

Dan Mullen:

2009 Mississippi State 5-7 3-5 T4th (West)
2010 Mississippi State 9-4 4-4 5th (West) W Gator 17 15
2011 Mississippi State 7-6 2-6 5th (West) W Music City
2012 Mississippi State 8-5 4-4 4th (West) L Gator
2013 Mississippi State 1-2 0-1
Mississippi State: 30-24 13-20
Total: 30-24

So Dan has done a better job in his first five years than our all time winningest coach, Jackie Sherrill, but people are ready to toss him? Have you lost your minds?? Sure there's things that need to be fixed, but I don't think we should even be hearing people talk about throwing Mullen to the curb.

As I posted on 24/7,

We have sucked forever. How about we try not sucking? I hear it's nice.

Two traditional NYD bowls in the last three years. Jackie did that once, but Jackie did get to Atlanta......in his 8th season.

Yeah I've calmed down a lot from Saturday night... but we need Mullen to get his fire back... I want that cocky coach from 2010 back

agree completely. it's insane.

we've had 4 winning seasons since 2001 under 3 different coaches and CDM has 3 of those. Bowl games every year except his first. Tied for most bowl wins in program history after only 4 years (that makes me want to cry).

2 wins in his last 9 games. At least we looked competitive against the second worst SEC team though*

[QUOTE=Political Hack;52237]agree completely. it's insane.

we've had 4 winning seasons since 2001 under 3 different coaches and CDM has 3 of those. Bowl games every year except his first. Tied for most bowl wins in program history after only 4 years (that makes me want to cry).[/QUOTE]

That hurt my stomach.

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Originally Posted by CJDAWG85

Yeah I've calmed down a lot from Saturday night... but we need Mullen to get his fire back... I want that cocky coach from 2010 back

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^^^ spot-on ^^^ .... I want to see the guy that invented football back on the sidelines

"So Dan has done a better job in his first five years than our all time winningest coach, Jackie Sherrill"

Not yet he hasn't. Not yet anyway. Imagine if Jackie had the benefit of having a 12th game against Alcorn or Jackson State? Give him an extra win every year, and his record is then 34-27-2. Also Jackie's SEC record of 17-21-1 is better than 13-20.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a "fire Mullen!" advocate. But it's a little early to say Dan is better than Jackie. If I had to rank them, they would be 1a and 1b at this point.

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Originally Posted by Hypnodawg

2 wins in his last 9 games. At least we looked competitive against the second worst SEC team though*

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I think this is a direct result of trying to force a spread run offense to use a pocket passer QB, and now trying to take a spread run QB run the offense set up for the pocket passer.

So it all boils down to these questions....

Do you let him tank before removing him?

How far does his 3 bowl streak take him with us?

Why do most agree that Tyler shouldn't be praised for breaking shitty MSU passing records, yet Mullen gets praised for breaking shitty MSU wins records? Against bad OOC schedules too.

Do we want to be proactive and build on what he's built? Or allow what he's built to fade away and have to start fresh by being REactive instead? (Like we typically do)

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Originally Posted by slickdawg

I think this is a direct result of trying to force a spread run offense to use a pocket passer QB, and now trying to take a spread run QB run the offense set up for the pocket passer.

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I agree, but who's fault is that? Hell, I saw it two years ago but it took a guy getting paid 2.6 million a year two additional years to figure it out? That's part of my problem with him. When you have fans being proven right and noticing major things before your head coach, there are problems. And his lack of give a shit and emotion these days is a major turn off as well.

Mullen is in year 5, and has never beaten a Top 20 team.

He hasn't beaten a Top 25 team since 2010, let that sink in, It's 2013...
2009 (win over #25 Ole Miss)
2010 (win over #22 UF)

We are supposed to be a program on the rise under Mullen and it appears that we are regressing in his 5th year.
Our best season under Mullen was 2010 (9-4) with his 2nd Top 25 win being over a #22 ranked UF.
What have we done since then?
Well we have lost 7 out of the last 9 games going back to last year...

Mullen is just not that good of an offensive coach, never makes adjustments and makes bad in-game decisions.

unless he's willing to get a real OL coach AND a real OC, and turn over the offense, then it's time to cut bait. His game management sucks too. He's peaked. Strike while the iron's hot. Otherwise, 3-5 years from now when we do decide to move in a new direction, we will have tanked and it's a complete rebuild all over again. Our job is semi-desirable right now.

Like Jackie's easy wins vs NE LA and Troy?

We cannot fire a coach off playing in 3 straight bowl games, unless he loses out.

Mullen gets this year and next to right the ship.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

So it all boils down to these questions....

Do you let him tank before removing him?

How far does his 3 bowl streak take him with us?

Why do most agree that Tyler shouldn't be praised for breaking shitty MSU passing records, yet Mullen gets praised for breaking shitty MSU wins records? Against bad OOC schedules too.

Do we want to be proactive and build on what he's built? Or allow what he's built to fade away and have to start fresh by being REactive instead? (Like we typically do)

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How can we build on what he's built when the next coach has already been picked? Hud has already been crowned.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

We cannot fire a coach off playing in 3 straight bowl games, unless he loses out.

Mullen gets this year and next to right the ship.

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And you think we are back in a Bowl next year at 6-6. Is that righting the ship in your opinion?

heres the thing with mullen, most of his wins have been off of cupcakes. really other than florida he hasn't beaten anyone. sure we can schedule cupcakes to pad our wins but is that what you really want? or do you want to have a coach that's takes on the big boys head on and gives them all they can handle? I know which one I want.

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Originally Posted by AROB44

How can we build on what he's built when the next coach has already been picked? Hud has already been crowned.

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What?? Why can Hud not build on what Mullen has built?

Hud wants to be here, and he has heart even after a few seasons with ULL. Meanwhile, Mullen lost all heart and balls after the Bama game last year.

I'm as pissed off at and low on Mullen as anyone right now, but the biggest dumbass award goes to Stricklin scheduling OSU. If you are going to put a list together of 3 main factors that have helped MSU improve their program since Mullen has taken over, friendly OOC schedule is without a doubt one of them. Taking one of those positive influences away from the program is complete dumbassedry. We need 4 very winnable OOC games to keep ourselves in position to bowl. The SEC is too damn strong to make it any harder on ourselves.

..does not have the ability to recognize his playmakers & turn them loose. He tries to build his football team like a faceless corporation where "everybody contributes equally." That may work at Alabama where every player is a 5 star superhero, but it doesn't work at programs where you are lucky to have 2 outstanding players on the roster.

This something Freeze is very good at: He recognizes his 2 or 3 playmakers & builds his whole offense around getting them the ball. Same on defense: Freeze has only 2 or 3 playmakers on defense, but he builds his defense around their skills.

Mullen treats his top talent like conveyor belt persona: Use them twice a game as a means to fool the opponent them send them back to guard the Gatorade bucket for the rest of the game.

Plus it blows my mind Mullen is supposed to be an offensive genius yet he, not counting Dak's little razzle dazzle, runs only 7 plays a game: Short screen up the middle to Perkins; short screen right to Perkins; short screen left to Perkins. Delay draw Perkins run up the middle; delay draw Perkins right; delay draw Perkins left. Then the random 15 yard pass when there is a 5% chance the catch will be made.

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Originally Posted by CJDAWG85

Yeah I've calmed down a lot from Saturday night... but we need Mullen to get his fire back... I want that cocky coach from 2010 back

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I was angry Saturday too, but unlike a lot of people, I realized it'd be better if I didn't go into a rage on the internet. We, as a fanbase, have got to stop shooting ourselves in the foot. We were in full meltdown mode. I bet that was quite fulfilling to the Ole Miss fans. Not to mention, we have subhuman people talking shit to players. I saw a tweet where coachcamp (Elijah Staley's dad) was perplexed about how we were acting. How about we not run off our recruits just because we're upset about a loss? I mean, I get it. I was upset and heartbroken too. But sometimes it's better to just let things go.

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Originally Posted by Ronny

..does not have the ability to recognize his playmakers & turn them loose. He tries to build his football team like a faceless corporation where "everybody contributes equally." That may work at Alabama where every player is a 5 star superhero, but it doesn't work at programs where you are lucky to have 2 outstanding players on the roster.

This something Freeze is very good at: He recognizes his 2 or 3 playmakers & builds his whole offense around getting them the ball. Same on defense: Freeze has only 2 or 3 playmakers on defense, but he builds his defense around their skills.

Mullen treats his top talent like conveyor belt persona: Use them twice a game as a means to fool the opponent them send them back to guard the Gatorade bucket for the rest of the game.

Plus it blows my mind Mullen is supposed to be an offensive genius yet he, not counting Dak's little razzle dazzle, runs only 7 plays a game: Short screen up the middle to Perkins; short screen right to Perkins; short screen left to Perkins. Delay draw Perkins run up the middle; delay draw Perkins right; delay draw Perkins left. Then the random 15 yard pass when there is a 5% chance the catch will be made.

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Nailed it

Yes Jackie lost to some bad teams, something Dan hasn't really done. But he also beat some really good teams, something Dan hasn't done. So, like I said in the first place, they are about equal at this point.

But you can't discount the difference between a 12-game schedule and an 11-game schedule. Dan can go 2-6 in the league and still go bowling. If Jackie went 2-6 in the league he was considered an absolute failure.

Social media is not a friend of a program with a fickle fan base like State's.

Read clay travis recent post on Mullen, if he ends up 4-8 this year he's only averaging .8 more SEC wins than Croom. Everybody outside the program sees the program is getting worse. Can he change it around before the year ends, we'll see, but I'm not getting my hopes up

So, you would rather be a sucky team, but since we go bowling by beating crappy teams...then "all is well"?

I really don't get this. I can't hlep myself, from responiding to all the people syaing this. Our team is the same if we had beaten UAB or lost to Ok State...

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Originally Posted by ckDOG

I'm as pissed off at and low on Mullen as anyone right now, but the biggest dumbass award goes to Stricklin scheduling OSU. If you are going to put a list together of 3 main factors that have helped MSU improve their program since Mullen has taken over, friendly OOC schedule is without a doubt one of them. Taking one of those positive influences away from the program is complete dumbassedry. We need 4 very winnable OOC games to keep ourselves in position to bowl. The SEC is too damn strong to make it any harder on ourselves.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

So, you would rather be a sucky team, but since we go bowling by beating crappy teams...then "all is well"?

I really don't get this. I can't hlep myself, from responiding to all the people syaing this. Our team is the same if we had beaten UAB or lost to Ok State...

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At least playing OSU first game lets you see problems and make adjustments to fix them. We had plenty of problems, no corrective actions though.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

So, you would rather be a sucky team, but since we go bowling by beating crappy teams...then "all is well"?

I really don't get this. I can't hlep myself, from responiding to all the people syaing this. Our team is the same if we had beaten UAB or lost to Ok State...

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Of course it's the same team if you are looking at it at a one game level. Think a little further down the road. Bowling is crucial in that it gets you extra practice to develop your youth and it keeps the fans engaged. Nobody beats their chests about winning 6 games and going to a crap bowl, but it gives the fans a little something to look forward to during the winter and gives you some hope leading into the next year. Going 5-7 isn't all that much different than winning 6 during the regular season, but it sure is a lot more depressing for the program and fans if you stay home during bowl season and the programs down the road don't.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

So, you would rather be a sucky team, but since we go bowling by beating crappy teams...then "all is well"?

I really don't get this. I can't hlep myself, from responiding to all the people syaing this. Our team is the same if we had beaten UAB or lost to Ok State...

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Not "all is well", but "we are bowling and still considered a winning program by recruits", yes. Why can't we change coaches while we're winning if we KNOW he's only winning due to the schedule and our team is not playing to their potential? I would rather guarantee a bowl game AND make the change to a coach like Hud BEFORE the ship sinks.

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Originally Posted by ckDOG

Of course it's the same team if you are looking at it at a one game level. Think a little further down the road. Bowling is crucial in that it gets you extra practice to develop your youth and it keeps the fans engaged. Nobody beats their chests about winning 6 games and going to a crap bowl, but it gives the fans a little something to look forward to during the winter and gives you some hope leading into the next year. Going 5-7 isn't all that much different than winning 6 during the regular season, but it sure is a lot more depressing for the program and fans if you stay home during bowl season and the programs down the road don't.

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I'd rather have stayed home than gone to watch us play like crap vs. NW.

Loosing to Auburn sucked, especially because of the play calling in the 4th, but I enjoyed watching it. Maybe we are turning a corner, but if Auburn is as bad I think they are, we don't deserve to go to a bowl and I'll be glad to save the money.

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Originally Posted by Hypnodawg

I'd rather have stayed home than gone to watch us play like crap vs. NW.

Loosing to Auburn sucked, especially because of the play calling in the 4th, but I enjoyed watching it. Maybe we are turning a corner, but if Auburn is as bad I think they are, we don't deserve to go to a bowl and I'll be glad to save the money.

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I won't knock your personal opinion. I don't like watching up crap up a game, bowl or not. My only point is that a season with a bowl is better than one without a bowl. Which program has a better chance at turning some kind of corner? A program with consecutive 5 wins or less seasons or one that goes to a bowl each year? I don't see how anyone could argue for the 5 wins or less route and actually believe what they say. There is no reason we should make it tougher on ourselves in getting to a bowl until we make it absolutely clear that we don't have to rely on 4 OOC patsies to get there.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Not "all is well", but "we are bowling and still considered a winning program by recruits", yes. Why can't we change coaches while we're winning if we KNOW he's only winning due to the schedule and our team is not playing to their potential? I would rather guarantee a bowl game AND make the change to a coach like Hud BEFORE the ship sinks.

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What bowl did Ole Miss go to in 2010 and 2011? Yet somehow they were still able to kick our tail in recruiting and have a team much better prepared. They took the damned golden egg last year and they hadn't been to a bowl since 2009.

Truth. Just think about if you would have had a headset on during all the games.

The sad part is, I don't know which one you want.

I'll evaluate next year at the end of next year. But I will say I expect more than 6-6.

We are Mississippi State. Look who Ole Miss got when they fired Cutcliff. If Mark says no (and he might), we'd be hiring the same thing. A recruiting coordinatior from Washington State.

I'd love to know the list of coaches that got booted after bowl seasons. Maybe I'm wrong. I now people say Croom, but damn that was a different animal..we were soooo bad.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Not "all is well", but "we are bowling and still considered a winning program by recruits", yes. Why can't we change coaches while we're winning if we KNOW he's only winning due to the schedule and our team is not playing to their potential? I would rather guarantee a bowl game AND make the change to a coach like Hud BEFORE the ship sinks.

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Originally Posted by ckDOG

Of course it's the same team if you are looking at it at a one game level. Think a little further down the road. Bowling is crucial in that it gets you extra practice to develop your youth and it keeps the fans engaged. Nobody beats their chests about winning 6 games and going to a crap bowl, but it gives the fans a little something to look forward to during the winter and gives you some hope leading into the next year. Going 5-7 isn't all that much different than winning 6 during the regular season, but it sure is a lot more depressing for the program and fans if you stay home during bowl season and the programs down the road don't.

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Winning 5 is also not that much different from winning 4, is winning four similar to winning 3, is 3 close to 2? It's not the Kevin bacon game where you connect the dots to find the answer. Winning five sucks.