How the NCAA may rule on OM

The NCAA enacted stricter bylaws to hold coaches more accountable in October 2012 and completely changed its penalty structure. Because the infractions at Louisville happened before and after the new infractions process, the committee compared the two penalty structures and opted for the more lenient one.

Carol Cartwright, chief hearing officer in the case, explained the decision this way, "It's our process that when violations occur both before and after the new structure, we do the analysis. In this case, the violations were about evenly distributed between the old and the new. It's our standard process in those cases to use the more lenient process and that's what we did in this case."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-sexual-nature


We've speculated on how the infractions may be split. Maybe that is this reason why the NCAA sent the 2nd NOA. Maybe they want that one punished under the new matrix.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

The NCAA enacted stricter bylaws to hold coaches more accountable in October 2012 and completely changed its penalty structure. Because the infractions at Louisville happened before and after the new infractions process, the committee compared the two penalty structures and opted for the more lenient one.

Carol Cartwright, chief hearing officer in the case, explained the decision this way, "It's our process that when violations occur both before and after the new structure, we do the analysis. In this case, the violations were about evenly distributed between the old and the new. It's our standard process in those cases to use the more lenient process and that's what we did in this case."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-sexual-nature


We've speculated on how the infractions may be split. Maybe that is this reason why the NCAA sent the 2nd NOA. Maybe they want that one punished under the new matrix.

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Most of the first NOA is also under the new matrix. If I remember right, and they have been accused of SO much I might not have it right, the only stuff that falls under the old one is the ACT fraud stuff with Saunders.

I would have to believe they would use both considering this has so many different twist and turns. ACT, old...all else, new.

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

The NCAA enacted stricter bylaws to hold coaches more accountable in October 2012 and completely changed its penalty structure. Because the infractions at Louisville happened before and after the new infractions process, the committee compared the two penalty structures and opted for the more lenient one.

Carol Cartwright, chief hearing officer in the case, explained the decision this way, "It's our process that when violations occur both before and after the new structure, we do the analysis. In this case, the violations were about evenly distributed between the old and the new. It's our standard process in those cases to use the more lenient process and that's what we did in this case."


http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...-sexual-nature


We've speculated on how the infractions may be split. Maybe that is this reason why the NCAA sent the 2nd NOA. Maybe they want that one punished under the new matrix.

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Sounds like they took the "more lenient" route to protect Pitino from the new responsibility rule, and in doing so kinda waffled a bit. Maybe they now consider the new rules too punitive. Might do the same with Freeze, unless they "convict" him personally of major violations.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Most of the first NOA is also under the new matrix. If I remember right, and they have been accused of SO much I might not have it right, the only stuff that falls under the old one is the ACT fraud stuff with Saunders.

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Liverpool, I think the difference is the amount of infractions. Louisville had one Level 1 and Mississippi has 15, Mississippi has admitted in their response that some of these infractions happened as the investigation was going on. This in itself is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control, which should raise all of the Level 1's to aggravated status.
While some of the infractions happened before the new punishment matrix was put into place. Mississippi continued to break regulations in the face of continuing investigations, The COI at this point has no other option, but to hand down the harshest penalties.

Pitino had 1 Level 1- ONE

Freeze and OM has 15

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Pitino had 1 Level 1- ONE

Freeze and OM has 15

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I keep waffling on the issue of whether they are penalized above the 30-35 number of scholarships for 4 years or if they go below, do they hammer in another way.

I think the NCAA is not actually gunning for Freeze per se. I think they are gunning for whatever unidentified group is pulling his strings.

It seems like the NCAA might be trying to effect change from WITHIN the university. I feel like the only change that will be effective is if their educational board of directors is so publically embarassed by this that they rip it apart and start over hiring new chancellor, athletic director, and a head coach that has credibilty for running a clean program. THE QUESTION is who at that school is powerful enough to clean house in the name of saving some credibility going forward? Yea sure, we all want them to be struggling at the level of SMU for years to come, but if they simply show cause Freeze, you are leaving the source of the problem to hire his replacement.

This case is so important to the NCAA. And OM is playing right into their hand.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

I keep waffling on the issue of whether they are penalized above the 30-35 number of scholarships for 4 years or if they go below, do they hammer in another way.

I think the NCAA is not actually gunning for Freeze per se. I think they are gunning for whatever unidentified group is pulling his strings.

It seems like the NCAA might be trying to effect change from WITHIN the university. I feel like the only change that will be effective is if their educational board of directors is so publically embarassed by this that they rip it apart and start over hiring new chancellor, athletic director, and a head coach that has credibilty for running a clean program. THE QUESTION is who at that school is powerful enough to clean house in the name of saving some credibility going forward? Yea sure, we all want them to be struggling at the level of SMU for years to come, but if they simply show cause Freeze, you are leaving the source of the problem to hire his replacement.

This case is so important to the NCAA. And OM is playing right into their hand.

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Freeze isn't the problem. He was hired by the problem.

Looking at TCUN's ncaa history

Strike 1: 1986-1988 TCUN placed on 2 years of ncaa probation for offering "piles of cash," plane tix, cars to prospects by staff members and boosters for violations occurring in 1982-84

Strike 2: 1994-1998 TCUN placed on 4 years of ncaa probation for offering "piles of cash," plane tix, cars to prospects by staff members and boosters for violations occurring in 1991-94

Strike 3: 2018-202# TCUN placed on X years of ncaa probation for offering "piles of cash," plane tix, cars to prospects by staff members and boosters for violations occurring in 2010-15


How many times does the ncaa allow the SAME violations occur repeatedly and why does the ncaa keep allowing history to repeat itself? Methinks not for too much longer and X=DP.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Freeze isn't the problem. He was hired by the problem.

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absolutely agree.

And to come out of this probationary period with a competitive team, they have to either cheat as well but without being detected, or take the high road.


Lest we all forget, MSU went through something similar. Our response was to hire a man who was not some Manchurian candidate for boosters, got a new athletics director, and a President who is quite hands on concerning the image of our school and athletics department.

Maybe my favorite thing about OM is the reason they wont do what is in their long term best interest. Their allergic reaction to what it will require......humility

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Pitino had 1 Level 1- ONE

Freeze and OM has 15

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THIS is all that needs to be ****ing said period when it comes to Umiss dumpster fire. No matter what RR does, no mater how anyone associated with shit place spins it.. Its this

Here's my take. With the new rules of punishment, OM know they are 39'd! They are going all in to try and hold on to Freeze, blame others, crucify MsU and the NCAA and think their cheap ass lawyers can mitigate the penalties. It won't happen. Buh Bye!!

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Originally Posted by StatesboroBlues

I would have to believe they would use both considering this has so many different twist and turns. ACT, old...all else, new.

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If you have a case that involves the old and the new, I'd think that's pretty clear there's LOIC

Was the entire case at Louisville tried under the whole matrix or half in half? It all boils down to the fact that Pitino and Freeze are apples and oranges.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

If you have a case that involves the old and the new, I'd think that's pretty clear there's LOIC

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and if you are caught committing Level I violations while you are being investigated.

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

and if you are caught committing Level I violations while you are being investigated.

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Yep. They never stopped cheating and now they're in the media pretty much blaming 2 of our SAs that were what 13 years old when the violations in this case started

Damn! Pitino is scum. I guess winning is more important to Louisville.

I haven't posted much but have been keeping up with the OM fiasco. I've dealt with these OM people a lot through the years and I don't put much past them. If when the sanctions come down they aren't nearly as severe as we thought they'd be remember a couple of things: 1. The top 4 or 5 boosters are worth somewhere north of 1 maybe 2 billion, there's not much money won't by. Believe me somebody is looking at these COI members. 2. Remember who is chairman of the senate appropriations committee and what purse strings of schools come under the committee's purview. The NCAA is dealing with a hyper-competitive bunch of folks that lives by the mantra "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'".

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Originally Posted by Flatlander

I haven't posted much but have been keeping up with the OM fiasco. I've dealt with these OM people a lot through the years and I don't put much past them. If when the sanctions come down they aren't nearly as severe as we thought they'd be remember a couple of things: 1. The top 4 or 5 boosters are worth somewhere north of 1 maybe 2 billion, there's not much money won't by. Believe me somebody is looking at these COI members. 2. Remember who is chairman of the senate appropriations committee and what purse strings of schools come under the committee's purview. The NCAA is dealing with a hyper-competitive bunch of folks that lives by the mantra "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'".

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OM's ass aint near as big out of MS as it is in it. I seriously doubt they have he kind of stroke you claim, and its awful odd that you've lurked until just now...........

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Originally Posted by Pollodawg

OM's ass aint near as big out of MS as it is in it. I seriously doubt they have he kind of stroke you claim, and its awful odd that you've lurked until just now...........

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It's not even big in the neighboring state, at least in the north central part. Ole Miss is not a household name here. MSU is. Many of my friends think we're called Ole Miss (just like ESPN).

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Originally Posted by Flatlander

I haven't posted much but have been keeping up with the OM fiasco. I've dealt with these OM people a lot through the years and I don't put much past them. If when the sanctions come down they aren't nearly as severe as we thought they'd be remember a couple of things: 1. The top 4 or 5 boosters are worth somewhere north of 1 maybe 2 billion, there's not much money won't by. Believe me somebody is looking at these COI members. 2. Remember who is chairman of the senate appropriations committee and what purse strings of schools come under the committee's purview. The NCAA is dealing with a hyper-competitive bunch of folks that lives by the mantra "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'".

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Enforcer alert needed

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

and if you are caught committing Level I violations while you are being investigated.

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No IF, OM continued even while under investigation....

As previously referenced, the second paragraph of the response where Ole Miss admits to cheating during the course of the investigation, is the most damning issue they face. When their response was made public and I began reading it, that admission "stood out like a turd in a punch bowl". After reading that admission, any concerns that Ole Miss would get off easy quickly evaporated.

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

It's not even big in the neighboring state, at least in the north central part. Ole Miss is not a household name here. MSU is. Many of my friends think we're called Ole Miss (just like ESPN).

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This^

Few people know or care very much about UM... (just like ESPN)...

I think they are a known commodity only in Memphis, N. Miss, and other, select places in-state... Kinda like Vandy sans academics...

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Originally Posted by msbulldog

Liverpool, I think the difference is the amount of infractions. Louisville had one Level 1 and Mississippi has 15, Mississippi has admitted in their response that some of these infractions happened as the investigation was going on. This in itself is the definition of Lack of Institutional Control, which should raise all of the Level 1's to aggravated status.
While some of the infractions happened before the new punishment matrix was put into place. Mississippi continued to break regulations in the face of continuing investigations, The COI at this point has no other option, but to hand down the harshest penalties.

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Agree 100%. The OM operation was pre-planned, premeditated, and systematic in nature because it was orchestrated from the very core of the Athletic Department. When the Asst Athletic Director devises a program to systematically put Boosters in contact with potential recruits on numerous occasions and has so as many as a dozen Boosters running for him that he has to employ the help and support of multiple on-the-field coaches; then that is a tried and true system of cheating. When it continues totally unchecked WHILE under NCAA investigation then that's aggravated cheating.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

Agree 100%. The OM operation was pre-planned, premeditated, and systematic in nature because it was orchestrated from the very core of the Athletic Department. When the Asst Athletic Director devises a program to systematically put Boosters in contact with potential recruits on numerous occasions and has so as many as a dozen Boosters running for him that he has to employ the help and support of multiple on-the-field coaches; then that is a tried and true system of cheating. When it continues totally unchecked WHILE under NCAA investigation then that's aggravated cheating.

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Great minds think alike! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LockeDawg again.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

Agree 100%. The OM operation was pre-planned, premeditated, and systematic in nature because it was orchestrated from the very core of the Athletic Department. When the Asst Athletic Director devises a program to systematically put Boosters in contact with potential recruits on numerous occasions and has so as many as a dozen Boosters running for him that he has to employ the help and support of multiple on-the-field coaches; then that is a tried and true system of cheating. When it continues totally unchecked WHILE under NCAA investigation then that's aggravated cheating.

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Sounds like you summed it up pretty well, but you think it was Barney who created and ran the cheating program? Not Freeze?