OT: MHSAA and NWR/St Andrews

A month or so ago both St. Andrews and Northwest Rankin baseball were disqualified from the playoffs this year due to use of an ineligible player under Rule 4.10.3 (negligence of school officials to adequately check rules, regulations, and records). Not due to malicious falsification or other egregious actions.

St. Andrews went to arbitration while NWR was not allowed to seek arbitration by the Rankin County School District since RCSD was less eager to spend education funds on arbitration/legal fees for a sports programs at one of many schools in their district.

St. Andrews won their arbitration with the Arbitrator finding that disqualification from the playoffs for violation of Rule 4.10.3 is not allowed per the MHSAA handbook and is therefore arbitrary and capricious. MHSAA is limited to disciplinary probation which does not include disqualification from the playoffs for violations of Rule 4.10.3.

Mr. Hinton refuses to change the penalty imposed against Northwest Rankin in spite of the fact that it has been clearly shown that disqualification from the playoffs IS NOT ALLOWED FOR RULE 4.10.3 PER THEIR OWN HANDBOOK/GUIDELINES. This is solely because NWR did not go to arbitration.

Now I'll admit I am prejudice since I have a child on the baseball team. But putting aside any dislike you might have for NWR, is this how MHSAA operates? They appear more concerned with hiding behind their bureaucracy and pettiness, rather than doing what is right (per their own guidelines) for Students.

Any suggestions on how to bring sanity to this situation?

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

A month or so ago both St. Andrews and Northwest Rankin baseball were disqualified from the playoffs this year due to use of an ineligible player under Rule 4.10.3 (negligence of school officials to adequately check rules, regulations, and records). Not due to malicious falsification or other egregious actions.

St. Andrews went to arbitration while NWR was not allowed to seek arbitration by the Rankin County School District since RCSD was less eager to spend education funds on arbitration/legal fees for a sports programs at one of many schools in their district.

St. Andrews won their arbitration with the Arbitrator finding that disqualification from the playoffs for violation of Rule 4.10.3 is not allowed per the MHSAA handbook and is therefore arbitrary and capricious. MHSAA is limited to disciplinary probation which does not include disqualification from the playoffs for violations of Rule 4.10.3.

Mr. Hinton refuses to change the penalty imposed against Northwest Rankin in spite of the fact that it has been clearly shown that disqualification from the playoffs IS NOT ALLOWED FOR RULE 4.10.3 PER THEIR OWN HANDBOOK/GUIDELINES. This is solely because NWR did not go to arbitration.

Now I'll admit I am prejudice since I have a child on the baseball team. But putting aside any dislike you might have for NWR, is this how MHSAA operates? They appear more concerned with hiding behind their bureaucracy and pettiness, rather than doing what is right (per their own guidelines) for Students.

Any suggestions on how to bring sanity to this situation?

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It might have to do with the fact Mr. Choke Job himself has had repeated MHSAA rule violations in the past 15 years ranging from illegal players to illegal practices.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

It might have to do with the fact Mr. Choke Job himself has had repeated MHSAA rule violations in the past 15 years ranging from illegal players to illegal practices.

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If you are referring to McClaskey, I've had two children go through the program back-to-back and I can guarantee there have been no illegal players (prior to this incident) nor illegal practices in the last 10 years. The chokes are subjective. Again, I said putting aside any dislike....

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

It might have to do with the fact Mr. Choke Job himself has had repeated MHSAA rule violations in the past 15 years ranging from illegal players to illegal practices.

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Lol, this is idiotic

Take on the legal fees as parents?

Use St Andrew's lawyer.

You have a precedent.

Of course you'll have to have the stones to defy RCSD.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

It might have to do with the fact Mr. Choke Job himself has had repeated MHSAA rule violations in the past 15 years ranging from illegal players to illegal practices.

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I bet you believe that the Russians hacked the Presidential election and that 9/11 was an inside job. A State fan calling anyone "choke jobs" is ironic to say the least.

Typical redneck mentality letting your bias cloud your judgment on a well thought out and organized question.

Contact Mike Hurst at the http://www.mspolicy.org/about/view_s...hp?entryID=414

He maybe able to help you or tell you where to go..... for help.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

A month or so ago both St. Andrews and Northwest Rankin baseball were disqualified from the playoffs this year due to use of an ineligible player under Rule 4.10.3 (negligence of school officials to adequately check rules, regulations, and records). Not due to malicious falsification or other egregious actions.

St. Andrews went to arbitration while NWR was not allowed to seek arbitration by the Rankin County School District since RCSD was less eager to spend education funds on arbitration/legal fees for a sports programs at one of many schools in their district.

St. Andrews won their arbitration with the Arbitrator finding that disqualification from the playoffs for violation of Rule 4.10.3 is not allowed per the MHSAA handbook and is therefore arbitrary and capricious. MHSAA is limited to disciplinary probation which does not include disqualification from the playoffs for violations of Rule 4.10.3.

Mr. Hinton refuses to change the penalty imposed against Northwest Rankin in spite of the fact that it has been clearly shown that disqualification from the playoffs IS NOT ALLOWED FOR RULE 4.10.3 PER THEIR OWN HANDBOOK/GUIDELINES. This is solely because NWR did not go to arbitration.

Now I'll admit I am prejudice since I have a child on the baseball team. But putting aside any dislike you might have for NWR, is this how MHSAA operates? They appear more concerned with hiding behind their bureaucracy and pettiness, rather than doing what is right (per their own guidelines) for Students.

Any suggestions on how to bring sanity to this situation?

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Know that if you tell a story and leave out an element, like an admitted recruiting violation, you actually aren't seeking informed suggestions.

There were no recruiting violations accused or admitted in the MHSAA case with NWR, so I am still seeking informed suggestions. I left out nothing to my best knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

A month or so ago both St. Andrews and Northwest Rankin baseball were disqualified from the playoffs this year due to use of an ineligible player under Rule 4.10.3 (negligence of school officials to adequately check rules, regulations, and records). Not due to malicious falsification or other egregious actions.

St. Andrews went to arbitration while NWR was not allowed to seek arbitration by the Rankin County School District since RCSD was less eager to spend education funds on arbitration/legal fees for a sports programs at one of many schools in their district.

St. Andrews won their arbitration with the Arbitrator finding that disqualification from the playoffs for violation of Rule 4.10.3 is not allowed per the MHSAA handbook and is therefore arbitrary and capricious. MHSAA is limited to disciplinary probation which does not include disqualification from the playoffs for violations of Rule 4.10.3.

Mr. Hinton refuses to change the penalty imposed against Northwest Rankin in spite of the fact that it has been clearly shown that disqualification from the playoffs IS NOT ALLOWED FOR RULE 4.10.3 PER THEIR OWN HANDBOOK/GUIDELINES. This is solely because NWR did not go to arbitration.

Now I'll admit I am prejudice since I have a child on the baseball team. But putting aside any dislike you might have for NWR, is this how MHSAA operates? They appear more concerned with hiding behind their bureaucracy and pettiness, rather than doing what is right (per their own guidelines) for Students.

Any suggestions on how to bring sanity to this situation?

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Originally Posted by gravedigger

Know that if you tell a story and leave out an element, like an admitted recruiting violation, you actually aren't seeking informed suggestions.

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Ding ding ding we have a winner and like I said in my prior post it isn't his first or even second run in with this over the last 15 years.

Again---you are not correct and appear to have an agenda.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

There were no recruiting violations accused or admitted in the MHSAA case with NWR, so I am still seeking informed suggestions. I left out nothing to my best knowledge.

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I understand you may not be aware that the issue was recruiting and not eligibility. Sorry I made it sound that way. It was an issue that amounted to a recruiting violation.

Nwr broke the rules. They should sit. As should St. Andrews.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

There were no recruiting violations accused or admitted in the MHSAA case with NWR, so I am still seeking informed suggestions. I left out nothing to my best knowledge.

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It was a violation of the Tracy Echols rule.

There was no recruiting violation in the paperwork, accusations, or discussions. Only eligibility.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

There were no recruiting violations accused or admitted in the MHSAA case with NWR, so I am still seeking informed suggestions. I left out nothing to my best knowledge.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

Again---you are not correct and appear to have an agenda.

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Is your point that you have presented all of the facts?

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

There was no recruiting violation in the paperwork, accusations, or discussions. Only eligibility.

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The only eligibility issues that can arise in high school is: grades, has exhausted eligibility or because said player was recruited.

Eligibility issues can arise when a player transfers from a private school at the start of the season and a game was played at the private school. Private schools feel no urge to respond to MHSAA paperwork. Slightly different versions of this is what happened to both St Andrews and NWR. These are violations of Rule 4.10.3. NWR called MHSAA and received the proper eligibility paperwork. Again, nothing about recruitment. See top of email for Ruke 4.10.3 which was deemed violated.

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

A month or so ago both St. Andrews and Northwest Rankin baseball were disqualified from the playoffs this year due to use of an ineligible player under Rule 4.10.3 (negligence of school officials to adequately check rules, regulations, and records). Not due to malicious falsification or other egregious actions.

St. Andrews went to arbitration while NWR was not allowed to seek arbitration by the Rankin County School District since RCSD was less eager to spend education funds on arbitration/legal fees for a sports programs at one of many schools in their district.

St. Andrews won their arbitration with the Arbitrator finding that disqualification from the playoffs for violation of Rule 4.10.3 is not allowed per the MHSAA handbook and is therefore arbitrary and capricious. MHSAA is limited to disciplinary probation which does not include disqualification from the playoffs for violations of Rule 4.10.3.

Mr. Hinton refuses to change the penalty imposed against Northwest Rankin in spite of the fact that it has been clearly shown that disqualification from the playoffs IS NOT ALLOWED FOR RULE 4.10.3 PER THEIR OWN HANDBOOK/GUIDELINES. This is solely because NWR did not go to arbitration.

Now I'll admit I am prejudice since I have a child on the baseball team. But putting aside any dislike you might have for NWR, is this how MHSAA operates? They appear more concerned with hiding behind their bureaucracy and pettiness, rather than doing what is right (per their own guidelines) for Students.

Any suggestions on how to bring sanity to this situation?

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Sucks, but cheating has consequences. I just feel bad for all the players that followed the rules.

What actually took place for the sanctions?

Your new superintendent is going to kill sports in RCSD. You missed your chance in 2011 when there was a valid threat to split off NWR pays 65% of the taxes in RCSD - you could have been another Clinton.

But if you think NWR has run a clean program for 15 years, I have a bridge to sell you. It would not be hyperbole to state that Northwest Rankin has one of the dirtiest high school athletic programs in the state. Your former athletic director was running drugs for goodness sake.

David Coates' personal problems don't make the athletic programs dirty. He was running drugs to his kid in Oxford---of all places. It is well hidden if NWR has "one of the dirtiest programs". I've been around the football, baseball, and soccer programs for more than 10 years and don't see it. If we are dirty in basketball, it sure isn't working.

This thread was about MHSAA arbitrary and capricious enforcement. It appears people can't get beyond their personal dislikes of other programs. Probably why MHSAA thrives. As long as it's not MY school, the other school deserved it. They can just play schools off of each other.

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Originally Posted by WinningIsRelentless

It might have to do with the fact Mr. Choke Job himself has had repeated MHSAA rule violations in the past 15 years ranging from illegal players to illegal practices.

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I retired from NWR and coached football there for years until I got sick. I never heard McClaskey ever say anything about cheating to get a player or break any rules. We had some fairly heated discussions about kids playing both sports and trying to do what was right for the athlete. People call and want to bring their kids there to play. Its as fine of a baseball facility for high school baseball as anywhere in the country.

I don't have a problem with NWR. I have a problem with cheaters. NWR is the Ole Miss of MHSAA 6A athletics. Its the culture of 39047 though. Win at all costs.

As far as Coates, you replaced him with a guy that physically attacked a player at his former school and hailed the guy as a great Christian man. Its the culture. If you take a step back and look at it you'll see it too.

As far as the MHSAA, I have no problem with them enforcing rules. NWR played a player who had played on another high school team during the same season. The argument is that St. Andrew's shouldn't have gotten away with it, not that NWR did not.

Sounds like mistakes were made. Make MHSAA RUE THE DAY!!

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Originally Posted by curmudgeon

I don't have a problem with NWR. I have a problem with cheaters. NWR is the Ole Miss of MHSAA 6A athletics. Its the culture of 39047 though. Win at all costs.

As far as Coates, you replaced him with a guy that physically attacked a player at his former school and hailed the guy as a great Christian man. Its the culture. If you take a step back and look at it you'll see it too.

As far as the MHSAA, I have no problem with them enforcing rules. NWR played a player who had played on another high school team during the same season. The argument is that St. Andrew's shouldn't have gotten away with it, not that NWR did not.

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No. That's not the argument. Sigh...

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Originally Posted by Sundawg1974

It is well hidden if NWR has "one of the dirtiest programs". I've been around the football, baseball, and soccer programs for more than 10 years and don't see it. If we are dirty in basketball, it sure isn't working.

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I know people who have been Ole Miss fans forever and still don't believe they have committed a single violation. You may not see it, but everyone else does. I know a former assistant baseball coach who quit coaching baseball at NWR because he said ethically he just couldn't live with it anymore.

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Originally Posted by somebodyshotmypaw

I know people who have been Ole Miss fans forever and still don't believe they have committed a single violation. You may not see it, but everyone else does. I know a former assistant baseball coach who quit coaching baseball at NWR because he said ethically he just couldn't live with it anymore.

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Would love to hear more details here. Sounds like BS. No offense to you.

All I know on this is there is more to this than most know. From what Ive been told, NWR had informed MHSAA of the transfer and done what they were supposed to do and had I believe verbal approval for the player to be eligible by someone with MHSAA. Then the shit hits the fan and we are where we are today. I think if this case had gone to arbitration, NWR would be allowed to be in the playoffs this season. It really sucks for the seniors on the team but it is what it is. If there was an avenue to get this done, I would be for it just for the seniors to have their shot. If not, then we take our medicine and move on.

I live in 39047 and have kids at NWR and for those talking culture bullshit, kiss it RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE! My culture is just fine. As far as cheating, I haven't personally seen it or even heard any talking amongst my fellow 047 win at all cost culture peeps. Win at all cost? What the hell man? If that was true, our trophy case would be spilling over. Somebody in the 047 obviously pissed in your cheerios, or gave you one hell of a wedgy. Dig that shit out and get over it already!

The David Coates thing was an awful situation and before all of these kids hit the high school so that has nothing to do with anything as far as athletics now. New principal. New AD. a bunch of new coaches. I'm sure there are many that don't like McClaskey, which is obvious with a few above here posting like they have something up their asses, but the man has done a good job as an AD for NWR so far. Helped bring in Toby Collums who is making NWR football much better and who is a stand up guy by all accounts. Both boys and girls soccer just won state titles. Basketball still needs work but that's more of players than coaching imo right now. And baseball, again it's McClaskey, who is a helluva baseball coach and he runs it his way. Lots may not like him cause he's beat that ass too much or hurt someone's feeling along the way. Regardless, NWR baseball is one of the best programs in MHSAA and will continue to be with McClaskey as the head coach.

Having dealt with the MHSAA a good bit, I can tell you they're garbage. It's a political racket to fill a few pockets and take care of certain schools and areas. They pick and choose how they enforce "rules". They should be disbanded.

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Originally Posted by Jacksondevildog

Would love to hear more details here. Sounds like BS. No offense to you.

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It's not. Said person still teaches/coaches at NWR. He (despite having a baseball background) requested out of the baseball program to coach sports he has no background in.

MHSAA will not allow certain schools to take a transfer without sitting but they allow others to take kids. I know a kid that played ball in the fall in MAIS that's now playing again in the spring (same sport) in public school. When the MHSAA draws up districts, they protect certain schools as well.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Having dealt with the MHSAA a good bit, I can tell you they're garbage. It's a political racket to fill a few pockets and take care of certain schools and areas. They pick and choose how they enforce "rules". They should be disbanded.

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When I went to NWR in 1993, there was talk back then that Hinton (current MHSAA director) and NWR didn't see eye to eye after he left for Ocean Springs. I don't know what the rift was or do I care. But, I think personal feelings may be playing a role in this at some point. It is real easy for those at MHSAA forget and deny what they say.

There are so many problems in the NWR zone, its pitiful. I'm not worried too much about NWR athletics though - Sue Townsend is going to make sure the athletic programs in RCSD are at a disadvantage. She despises scholastic sports and she would disband them all if she thought she could get away with it.

The culture I'm talking about is not only the "Win at all costs" but the "Rules don't apply to me" culture that the original post entails. Taxpayer money going to pay fines because you can't follow the rules would piss off most communities, but y'all doubled down and did it again. So its no surprise when you break rules in a game.

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Originally Posted by curmudgeon

There are so many problems in the NWR zone, its pitiful. I'm not worried too much about NWR athletics though - Sue Townsend is going to make sure the athletic programs in RCSD are at a disadvantage. She despises scholastic sports and she would disband them all if she thought she could get away with it.

The culture I'm talking about is not only the "Win at all costs" but the "Rules don't apply to me" culture that the original post entails. Taxpayer money going to pay fines because you can't follow the rules would piss off most communities, but y'all doubled down and did it again. So its no surprise when you break rules in a game.

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Hmm! Really? I guess I need to tweet this to Sue and make her aware of her despise for athletics. Interesting