If Dan's ego is the problem, how long do you give him before you fire him?

Do his assistants ever attempt to make in game suggestions regarding offensive playcalling? Since last year, Dan continues to do stupid shit. Poor play calls on third and fourth and short, poor decisions in general continue to kill us.

We have given him everything he wants, but he insists on being completely stubborn and predictable. We run the same shit as we have for two years. There's no creativity in our offense....nothing. We have more talent offensively that we have ever had under Dan, but yet he doesn't seem to want to use it.

Lack of creativity is surprising and appalling

That's a tough question. We're going to have to wait and see how the year plays out. What if we lose to Auburn, Arkansas, and Ole Miss? And as far fetched as this may sound, what if we lose to Troy and or Bowling Green? All of that will factor in.

Personally, I feel like we are where we are in large part because of Dan's recruiting and roster management which have been poor IMO and I think that kind of goes back to Dan's stubbornness to a degree. And it's not really so much about stars and recruiting rankings, but the fact that we only have eleven seniors this year, the fact that we have a QB with a really good arm and the ability to distribute the ball around, but a very average o-line and very few experienced WR's and then we continue to use our top running back incorrectly for the most part. It's not like Dan hasn't known for five years who our QB was going to be this year. And I feel like you have to build around your QB no matter what style he is on offense. Our o-line evaluation has been very sub par especially when you consider our best guy was recruited by Croom.

Plus, I have a fear that even with Dak as our QB nothing much is going to change on offense with regards to play-calling.

Why does MSU always have to hire the most stubborn ass coaches? Why can't we hire someone like Spurrier, who changed his entire style of play at South Carolina, or someone like Belichick who changes offensive styles most every year?

Why do we always have to hire the one trick pony? For goodness sakes, whenever it is time to hire a new coach, whether that is 2 years from now or 10 years from now, I hope we hire someone that has the ability and lack of ego to make changes.

We're in a tough spot. No big time program wants Mullen at this point. He missed his window using us as a stepping stool. Problem is even if we have a terrible yr this yr, our schedule next yr has us bowling.

He'll be forced to make a change at OC after this season regardless. Maybe he'll hire someone young like the rest of the staff and let them have some influence on the offense. I can name 20 right now that would love the opportunity. Keonning simply doesn't fit and hasn't for yrs, he's a bankrupt mans Randy Sanders/David Cutcliff.

Been a problem for the past 3 yrs.

Dan is stubborn, here's some video after his team goes ahead in the game.

This needs correcting: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8fRSSOMZA_M

If I am the AD, he has this year to straighten things out on his own. If things aren't working out, we come to an agreement on assistant changes. If that isn't working after that, we should probably part ways.

I happen to think he's going to work it out one way or another by the start of next year. We'll see what happens this year. I just want to see effort this year.

Post Auburn game.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Why does MSU always have to hire the most stubborn ass coaches? Why can't we hire someone like Spurrier, who changed his entire style of play at South Carolina, or someone like Belichick who changes offensive styles most every year?

Why do we always have to hire the one trick pony? For goodness sakes, whenever it is time to hire a new coach, whether that is 2 years from now or 10 years from now, I hope we hire someone that has the ability and lack of ego to make changes.

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I think there is a variety of reasons. We are not Florida, Alabama, LSU, etc. so we have to take a chance on a guy that isn't proven in most cases. When you hire a coordinator- you could be getting the next Nick Saban. You could be getting the next Sylvester Croom. And yes, we may have elevated our status to the point where we can get a proven coach from a Sun Belt or C-USA school possibly. I'm not saying that it would be a slam dunk, but it's possible. Jackie Sherrill was probably the most qualified head coach we have ever hired, and we see how that turned out- which was good for the most part.

I think money for assistants is a BIG issue right now for us. You simply get what you pay for in this league. If you want to scrape the bottom of the barrel, you are going to get Woody McCorvey and Les Koenning. Or you are going to get Manny Diaz for a year. Why we do not pay our assistants better- I do not know, and that is honestly up there with any facility that we build for football in my opinion. If we paid league average or better- we would get good assistants and good recruiters. We can pay a head coach well as we are doing with Dan, but any coach is going to need good assistants as well.

In the past facilities were an issue as well, but that is being corrected as we all know. At least there's that. We're not running through butcher paper anymore like 1996.

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Originally Posted by codeDawg

If I am the AD, he has this year to straighten things out on his own. If things aren't working out, we come to an agreement on assistant changes. If that isn't working after that, we should probably part ways.

I happen to think he's going to work it out one way or another by the start of next year. We'll see what happens this year. I just want to see effort this year.

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In my opinion last year was his year to change assistants. He only did it on the defensive side of the ball. Interestingly enough some of the ones that came back that should have been cut loose are also his closest friends on the staff. If I'm an athletic director, that tells me all I need to know.

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Originally Posted by bocfarm

We're in a tough spot. No big time program wants Mullen at this point. He missed his window using us as a stepping stool. Problem is even if we have a terrible yr this yr, our schedule next yr has us bowling.

He'll be forced to make a change at OC after this season regardless. Maybe he'll hire someone young like the rest of the staff and let them have some influence on the offense. I can name 20 right now that would love the opportunity. Keonning simply doesn't fit and hasn't for yrs, he's a bankrupt mans Randy Sanders/David Cutcliff.

Been a problem for the past 3 yrs.

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More like Dan is in a tough spot. We're not obligated to keep him because no one else wants him. If that were the case, we would still have Croom.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

More like Dan is in a tough spot. We're not obligated to keep him because no one else wants him. If that were the case, we would still have Croom.

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History tells me if we go bowling next yr, which is probable...we'll have him for another couple of yrs at a minimum, which means probably missing out on a Petrino, Leach, Kingsbury (wishful thinking) and maybe even HUD.

Hopefully we hire a young and up and coming OC and he saves Dans ass and turns the offense around.

History tells me - after 5 years of losing seasons.

Dan's record will get a slight pass from me due to his ability to fill the stands and create facility upgrades. He has done a tremendous job in both those areas. The MSU football program is in much better shape than when he found it. However his on-field antics have become tiresome. Mullen fails consistently at making in-game adjustments. Mullen owned Gundy for the first 25 minutes but then, just like always, Mullen's opponent makes adjustments and Mullen never counter-acts. Gundy runs a diamond formation and Mullen does nothing. Game over. Let's face it. Mullen SUCKS during the game. He is a little pouty faced ..... who constantly gets his brains beat in by other coaches. He might be better for this program outside the game but when it comes game time he is near the bottom in the SEC.

IMO he will get a pass this year if we have a losing record. Three straight bowl appearances gives him that. But a losing season next year and he should be gone. And Strickland should have a serious talk with him at the end of this season about coaching changes if this year ends as sour as last.

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Originally Posted by Dawgface

IMO he will get a pass this year if we have a losing record. Three straight bowl appearances gives him that. But a losing season next year and he should be gone. And Strickland should have a serious talk with him at the end of this season about coaching changes if this year ends as sour as last.

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Is it Dan's ego our the MSU fan base ego. We lost to a good team last Saturday and yes the offensive call playing was bad. This program will never succeed if we continue the fruit basket turn over type plan. There are solid recruits on the horizon. Let's hope that the crap posted over the past several days does not start to sway them. Lastly, I have several TSUN friends who live in real vile. They are not to optimistic in the long run and sense much trouble down the road. Let's get our heads up.

I honestly dont think strickland has the balls to have a serious talk with him. I just get a vibe from radio interviews and things that him and Dan are buddy buddy and we will have mullen as long as he wants to be here. Which I hope isnt too much longer after what I saw saturday

ironic how he raised our expectations and now is becoming a victim of that very expectation .... change doesn't come from buzz words and catch phrases like - juice, swag, relentless effort, ect.... Shmuly said it best on sps - more offense, less Koening

Fans have a right to be disappointed. I am disappointed. But he has turned us from a dumpster fire of a program that went 21-38 the previous 5 years to winning 29 of their next 51 and 2 bowl wins out of 3 appearances. Under Croom, MSU never ranked in the Top 100 in Total Offense. In the first 4 years, our offense averages 66th in Total Offense. Is our offense where it should be? No. I think he sees the writing on the wall. It's not right right to want him out yet.

What happens if we only win 2 or 3 games this year? If defense keeps us from getting blown out but the offense looks the same all year. That would be 2 years of inept offense.

The biggest issue with Dan is that he is supposed to be an offensive guru yet in year 5 we are worse than we were in 09 with Lee and Relf on O. Who is to blame for that?? All these players are those that he signed. The second issue is that after the train wreck Nutt left up in Oxford they are producing big numbers on offense with a former girls basketball coach.

I got news for all of you. The people that have donated money for the new football building and the stadium expansion have already shot some emails to Stricklin over the holiday weekend about their displeasure. Fact is his football IQ should over ride his ego.

In his presser, he admits that he's an offensive head coach, but yet the offense produces shit over the last several games. Now, if he is such an offensive coach, then why hasn't he tweaked this offense during the off season to utilize the talent that he has recruited?

The only thing that Dan has really accomplished is beating teams that we are supposed to beat....and that's a good start. In year 5 though, as of right now, we have not upset anyone in the top 20, and even when we are better then them (OSU) he finds a way to screw it up.

Say whatever you want, but Dan is doing less with more then Bucky is offensively. That really bothers me.

If we don't turn this season around, Dan gets one more year to get us back to a bowl or he's gone...
But knowing Scott, Dan gets 3 more years before anything is done... This is going to be like Stansbury 2.0...

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

What happens if we only win 2 or 3 games this year? If defense keeps us from getting blown out but the offense looks the same all year. That would be 2 years of inept offense.

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I think everyone needs to take a step back from the ledge. We aren't winning 2 or 3 games this year.

We will win between 5-7.

5 will be unacceptable and 6+ will be a bowl season, and that is successful in my book. We aren't losing anymore OOC games, we aren't losing to KY, and we beat two out of AU, Ark, or OM. Everyone needs to take a breath.

Yes the offense looked like shit, and yes I've been on #TeamDak from the beginning, but lets just slow down on predicting collapses. AU is very winnable, I wouldn't be surprised if we are favored in that game. Lets see where we are after AU game and go from there.

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Originally Posted by Thick

I got news for all of you. The people that have donated money for the new football building and the stadium expansion have already shot some emails to Stricklin over the holiday weekend about their displeasure. Fact is his football IQ should over ride his ego.

In his presser, he admits that he's an offensive head coach, but yet the offense produces shit over the last several games. Now, if he is such an offensive coach, then why hasn't he tweaked this offense during the off season to utilize the talent that he has recruited?

The only thing that Dan has really accomplished is beating teams that we are supposed to beat....and that's a good start. In year 5 though, as of right now, we have not upset anyone in the top 20, and even when we are better then them (OSU) he finds a way to screw it up.

Say whatever you want, but Dan is doing less with more then Bucky is offensively. That really bothers me.

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Doing less with more than bucky? Come on man, there is no way you really believe that to be true. We don't have a single player on the outside with the size or talent of Treadwell and Moncreif.

I think our execution and offensive predictability on Saturday were atrocious but you are overstating it just a tad.

Before seeing the offense on Saturday, I thought we could win maybe 8. Some of the sure wins I think now might be closer to toss ups. I don't think we will win 2 or 3 but if it did happen I wouldn't be surprised. Troy took us to the wire and UK usually is a good game. Ark has talent and Bielema is a good coach. Aub has the talent for Malzahn's offense with Johnson running the defense.

5 wins aren't a given.

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Originally Posted by angusyoung

Doing less with more than bucky? Come on man, there is no way you really believe that to be true. We don't have a single player on the outside with the size or talent of Treadwell and Moncreif.

I think our execution and offensive predictability on Saturday were atrocious but you are overstating it just a tad.

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D. Wilson disagrees....

I'm not so convinced we'll beat Bowling Green. They killed Tulsa 34-7 and are upto 9 votes in the rankings. They went 8-5 and bowling last year.

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

D. Wilson disagrees....

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Agreed...we have offensive talent. There are a lot of coaches that could come in right now and put up some points with the players we have right now. Kliff Kingsbury just put in a walk-on true freshman qb at Texas Tech and he threw 4 TD's. Mullen's performance right now is inexcusable.

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Originally Posted by Dawg61

I'm not so convinced we'll beat Bowling Green. They killed Tulsa 34-7 and are upto 9 votes in the rankings. They went 8-5 and bowling last year.

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It will be a tough game, so will Troy

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Originally Posted by angusyoung

Doing less with more than bucky? Come on man, there is no way you really believe that to be true. We don't have a single player on the outside with the size or talent of Treadwell and Moncreif.

I think our execution and offensive predictability on Saturday were atrocious but you are overstating it just a tad.

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You are looking at just wr's. I'm referring to the entire offense. Our rb's can run between the tackles, our offensive line is much better, we do have corner guys in Holloway and Lewis. We have 2 qb's that can run different styles, but we one QB that is the best fit for Dan's offense (little experience) compared to Wallace. Brunetti is incapable of caring that offense for an entire season.

I'm also looking at the last 5 games from last year and including OSU this year. Bucky produces more with less, maybe average line, no rb's other then a scat back, and a QB that has good wr's but makes questionable decisions at times. That's all I'm saying

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

ironic how he raised our expectations and now is becoming a victim of that very expectation .... change doesn't come from buzz words and catch phrases like - juice, swag, relentless effort, ect.... Shmuly said it best on sps - more offense, less Koening

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I expected crooms to make adjustments in the off season to address obvious problems. Not expected as in actually expected it to happen, but expected it as in it's a minimum requirement for competency.

Mullen had serious problems with offense and offensive play calling last year. I am actually shocked that he didn't do anything significant to address them in the off season. I thought he was more competitive than that, but an ego is a powerful thing, and I guess his won't allow him to admit he's not a great play caller. If Mullen could apply the same approach to his defensive coaches that he does to his offensive coaches, we'd be on our way to a 7 or 8 win season (or at the worst failing with a new offensive coordinator or failing with Koennig having primary play calling responsibilities instead of Mullen).

I'm not pissed that we lost to Ok St. or even necessarily that we looked like shit. I'm pissed that we didn't try to address an obvious problem. You cannot afford to do that in the SEC at any program, much less MSU. With what we pay assistant coaches, we are going to miss on some coordinators. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with not trying.

This whole discussion is moot.

Slive, L. T. and Stricklin will see that this is his last year. At least that's what I read here on Sunday.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Why does MSU always have to hire the most stubborn ass coaches? Why can't we hire someone like Spurrier, who changed his entire style of play at South Carolina, or someone like Belichick who changes offensive styles most every year?

Why do we always have to hire the one trick pony? For goodness sakes, whenever it is time to hire a new coach, whether that is 2 years from now or 10 years from now, I hope we hire someone that has the ability and lack of ego to make changes.

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Two things:

1) You just asked why we can't hire two of the greatest coaches in football history.

2) Both of those guys have gigantic egos. If we had Spurrier, we would be upset over the impatience he has with our QBs and how every time one gets going, he pulls him for the other. If we had Belichick, we would be upset that he keeps eschewing more talented players because his ego is so huge that he feels like it isn't about the players, it's about him and that he'll make anything work.

Spurrier hasn't won an SEC title since 2000 (don't really fault him for this), and Belichick hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 (pretty much a direct result of him getting rid of so much talent).

This thread is insane to me. I agree with hells bells in that "This program will never succeed if we continue the fruit basket turn over type plan." Does that mean Mullen has an eternal pass? No. But as long as the guy is consistently taking us to bowls, and some pretty decent ones every now and then, I don't see how you can really consider firing him yet.

Our offense looks like sh!t, but we are still coming off an 8 win season playing the SEC West and 3 straight bowl games. All you saying "what if we only win 2 or 3 games this year", and we are losing to all these other non-conference teams are grasping for straws. That isn't happening. It has never happened under Mullen, and there's absolutely no reason to believe it will. I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Dan has elevated this program, and may continue to do so. Do you really, really want to start over with a new coach. Byrne isn't here anymore. We got really lucky (at least so far) with Rick Ray. Right now, I'll take my chances with Mullen.

And for the Ole Miss lovers in here. Do you really think Bucky would be doing sooo much better here if he were in Starkville? No, we'd have the death penalty by now. Our Athletics program basically has an NCAA compliance worker on our campus full time, named Bracky. We aren't even playing the same game everyone else is.

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Originally Posted by sleepy dawg

This thread is insane to me. I agree with hells bells in that "This program will never succeed if we continue the fruit basket turn over type plan." Does that mean Mullen has an eternal pass? No. But as long as the guy is consistently taking us to bowls, and some pretty decent ones every now and then, I don't see how you can really consider firing him yet.

Our offense looks like sh!t, but we are still coming off an 8 win season playing the SEC West and 3 straight bowl games. All you saying "what if we only win 2 or 3 games this year", and we are losing to all these other non-conference teams are grasping for straws. That isn't happening. It has never happened under Mullen, and there's absolutely no reason to believe it will. I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Dan has elevated this program, and may continue to do so. Do you really, really want to start over with a new coach. Byrne isn't here anymore. We got really lucky (at least so far) with Rick Ray. Right now, I'll take my chances with Mullen.

And for the Ole Miss lovers in here. Do you really think Bucky would be doing sooo much better here if he were in Starkville? No, we'd have the death penalty by now. Our Athletics program basically has an NCAA compliance worker on our campus full time, named Bracky. We aren't even playing the same game everyone else is.

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I don't want Mullen fired this instant or anything. He has earned the chance to prove he can right the ship. HOWEVER...I do not want to see Stricklin allow him to turn the program into shit again. I would like to actually get rid of a coach before he turns a program into a shit pile for once.

One thing I noticed Saturday was how CDM's entire sideline demeanor changed by the 4th quarter- the chewing of the playcard, the blank, faraway "I'm screwed" stare. He looked defeated, and I'm sure our players noticed that. In that case, how can they not feel defeated as well? Can you imagine Saban or Spurrier ever having such a look? It is at such times that they are at their most animated and engaged- making adjustments and kicking asses! I hope this is called to Dan's attention and he guards against that "look" from here on. Probably doesn't instill much confidence in recruits, either.

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Originally Posted by fishwater99

This is going to be like Stansbury 2.0...

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I knew it wouldn't take long

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Originally Posted by Bullmutt

One thing I noticed Saturday was how CDM's entire sideline demeanor changed by the 4th quarter- the chewing of the playcard, the blank, faraway "I'm screwed" stare. He looked defeated, and I'm sure our players noticed that. In that case, how can they not feel defeated as well? Can you imagine Saban or Spurrier ever having such a look? It is at such times that they are at their most animated and engaged- making adjustments and kicking asses! I hope this is called to Dan's attention and he guards against that "look" from here on. Probably doesn't instill much confidence in recruits, either.

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I noticed this as well. It seems like he had a ton of energy the first 2-3 years, but he didn't have it last year and really didn't have it against OSU. He doesn't even bother yelling at anyone anymore. He just sits there.

I blame low testosterone.***

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Originally Posted by sleepy dawg

We got really lucky (at least so far) with Rick Ray.

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Wait, what?