I for one do not know what is best.....

With Mullen staying or going. I have thought about this and read a lot of opinions, but honestly it's a crap shoot at best. In saying this, I do think that "most" of the time when you have had or you are having success you try and get the problem fixed before firing and starting all over.
I think and who cares but Mullen makes over 4 million, friends or no friends on his staff and him being around 44 years old, I have to believe IF he comes back he will make offensive changes. I also think he want get a job making the money he is making at Msu, can't see him taking a massive cut in pay at his age.

Do I think changes need to be made, yes indeed, not sure a new coach after 8 years (which seems to be too long now days for a coach at one place) of mostly success at Msu is the best thing for next year anyway. Btw, Boston College might have a interest in Mullen, but I'm betting they are advertising to see who would be interest, can't see Mullen and the rumor of him "going" to BC, that for sure is a dead end coaching career job.

Lastly, I don't think we will fire him, but again I'm not sure what is best for Mullen and Msu right now except IF he comes back for whatever reason he makes offensive changes. Y'all can talk all you want about Msu football being a top 25-30 program, but playing in the west and being in Mississippi with poor education and mostly small schools to recruit in is IFF most of the time. Yes we can win, but can we win say 10 years straight and go to bowl games, I doubt it as we never have ever.

Hey, sorry for the long post, I hate them because "we" all keep saying the same damn thing over and over except for the "agenda"********

Glad you wrote this, I think most on this board agree, I know I do.

I go back and forth a little. Want Dan to get it turned around but don't see him getting better in areas he needs to like clock management, offensive creativity in red zone, aggressive defense, etc. He stuck in his ways. He might improve in recruiting with new staff members, not sure.

I also think it will be very difficult for him to find good staff members unless they are up-and-coming coaches similar to what Sirmon appeared to be. To get a proven OL coach, O coordinator (which Dan needs), etc. will be difficult for him to do.

I also think a creative O coordinator would help him with creativity in red zone, but he seems stuck in his Florida patterns. After all, they won (Urban) NCs in 2006 & 2008. What they did then worked and should again ... right?? If Saban thought like that there might be another team or a few that could play with Bama this year.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Glad you wrote this, I think most on this board agree, I know I do.

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I'm not sure most of this board agrees, but I do know for a fact that we have never had this much success under one coach for the time he has been at Msu as for as winning seasons and bowl games. The non believers on our history have no proof it can be turned around and done, if so I would like to see it in writing as Msu history doesn't have that data and that is a fact.

Mullen going extremely heavy on JUCOs and sticking with fitz no matter what tells me Mullen plans to be here next season.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I go back and forth a little. Want Dan to get it turned around but don't see him getting better in areas he needs to like clock management, offensive creativity in red zone, aggressive defense, etc. He stuck in his ways. He might improve in recruiting with new staff members, not sure.

I also think it will be very difficult for him to find good staff members unless they are up-and-coming coaches similar to what Sirmon appeared to be. To get a proven OL coach, O coordinator (which Dan needs), etc. will be difficult for him to do.

I also think a creative O coordinator would help him with creativity in red zone, but he seems stuck in his Florida patterns. After all, they won (Urban) NCs in 2006 & 2008. What they did then worked and should again ... right?? If Saban thought like that there might be another team or a few that could play with Bama this year.

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Mullen would have to change if he wants to be successful, assistant coaches are easier to get than a good HC.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Mullen going extremely heavy on JUCOs and sticking with fitz no matter what tells me Mullen plans to be here next season.

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Yep. That coupled with all of the off field additions for recruiting. He has made some changes in staff and approach, it will just take time to see the payoff. Good post basedog.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Mullen going extremely heavy on JUCOs and sticking with fitz no matter what tells me Mullen plans to be here next season.

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Well I know it's "Coach Speak", he was quoted at alumni functions over the summer he plans on staying at Msu as long as we want him (Keenum). I know his wife loves StarkVegas and moved her Mother and Dad.

Again, I'm not sure what is best, neither will an outside new AD.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Well I know it's "Coach Speak", he was quoted at alumni functions over the summer he plans on staying at Msu as long as we want him (Keenum). I know his wife loves StarkVegas and moved her Mother and Dad.

Again, I'm not sure what is best, neither will an outside new AD.

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LOL so John Cohen is the only person that knows what's best for MSU?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Mullen going extremely heavy on JUCOs and sticking with fitz no matter what tells me Mullen plans to be here next season.

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With his playing a lot of the younger guys at Ky, made he think he is as well.

Perhaps if Mullen stays, 2016 will go down as a great thing to happen.

One thing I've heard about Mullen is what a huge competitor he is, and nothing fires up a big competitor like being embarrassed. If we are 5 and 2 right now, nothing gets fixed, but with what has happened, Mullen will be forced to reinvent himself. Perhaps the Wllie Gay decommitment is the turning of a new leaf

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Originally Posted by basedog

Mullen would have to change if he wants to be successful, assistant coaches are easier to get than a good HC.

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He might get the assistants. It seems he has a hard time keeping them tho unless he has a prior history with them from Utah or FL. My perception is that he may not be open to new offensive ideas, which is why he quit hiring O coordinators. Additionally he appears to have a definite defensive philosophy, his D coordinators will play it that way, and he may micromanage his D coordinators to a certain extent.

Another thing he doesn't appear to do well is strategically plan future recruiting needs, although it's hard to tell for sure due to recruiting being poor in general.

Those are not recipes for long-term success.

I want him gone for the same reasons as previously discussed. But if he doesn't get a new job and stays(and not fired), I certainly hope he gets it turned around. I will never pull against the dogs for an agenda.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

He might get the assistants. It seems he has a hard time keeping them tho unless he has a prior history with them from Utah or FL. My perception is that he may not be open to new offensive ideas, which is why he quit hiring O coordinators. Additionally he appears to have a definite defensive philosophy, his D coordinators will play it that way, and he may micromanage his D coordinators to a certain extent.

Another thing he doesn't appear to do well is strategically plan future recruiting needs, although it's hard to tell for sure due to recruiting being poor in general.

Those are not recipes for long-term success.

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Keeping good assistants will always be a problem here until we pump more money in assistant pay. Even then, it'll be tough... look who we've lost assistants to

Fsu
Texas
Florida
Miami

Those are better jobs

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Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

LOL so John Cohen is the only person that knows what's best for MSU?

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Didn't say Cohen was the only one, how could an outsider know more what's best as for as knowing Dan Mullen other than John Cohen? Not saying Cohen should be our AD, but I don't have a problem with him if he is our AD.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Mullen going extremely heavy on JUCOs and sticking with fitz no matter what tells me Mullen plans to be here next season.

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Or he finally realized that nothing is a sure thing and is planning for the contingency of him still being here even though he doesn't necessarily want to be. I don't know which is the answer, but there's 2 ways to interpret this.

As far as Fitz goes, you can't let the players make personnel decisions (like who's the starting QB) but I do think you have to ask yourself if you're Mullen why so many players want the QB to be someone else. We'll see how this goes. Will be at homecoming.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Keeping good assistants will always be a problem here until we pump more money in assistant pay. Even then, it'll be tough... look who we've lost assistants to

Fsu
Texas
Florida
Miami

Those are better jobs

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I agree, that's why Dan needs to be a great boss. Some might would consider staying if they love their job and boss.

It also might help if he offered to reduce his pay and pump it towards staff. There is a very large gap between his pay and his D coordinator's pay. Of course I believe that to be the case throughout all of college FB. Maybe the pros too.

ETA: Let's say he takes a BC HC job. There's a lot of difference between $4 mill in Starkville as opposed the Boston.

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Originally Posted by bluelightstar

As far as Fitz goes, you can't let the players make personnel decisions (like who's the starting QB) but I do think you have to ask yourself if you're Mullen why so many players want the QB to be someone else. We'll see how this goes. Will be at homecoming.

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Fitz may have problems, but he has good potential and plays hard (although he showed a tentativeness running agsint UK that I haven't seen before; hope that was him trying to pick out running lanes and not him getting tire of getting hit). You absolutely cannot bench him while he's playing hard to give the majority of snaps to a RS Junior QB that is absolutely not an SEC QB. We're having a shitty year regardless, you have to get something out of it, which means you have to play a QB that at least has potential. You could consider benching him for Tiano, but the way our QB is going to get hit (both b/c of shitty pass blocking and then running a lot), not sure it's in Tiano's best interest to go out there and take that punishment as a RS freshman.

I still think Fitz is doing a pretty good job considering. Yes, it'd be better if we had a Qb that had played a lot more QB, and passed a lot more while doing it, than having a QB that played one year of option Qb in high school. But considering where he's coming from, the OL he's playing behind, the lack of help from RB, and the dropped passes, I think he's doing pretty well. IF I was going to fault him, it would be that it seems like he can't run the read option, but maybe it's just that defenses have figured that out.

November is going to be a rough one. Most likely 0-4. If Mullen can get the team to play hard and show some pride, then I'll believe he still wants to be here and turn this thing around. If he loses the locker room and has the team quit on him, then he should go. And if Mullen seriously considers going to BC, one of the worst P5 teams, then the new AD should show him the door.

Exactly, it is a crap shoot. We may have a terrible 2017 under Mullen. We may make a FG, catch a pass and make a defensive adjustment and go 6-6.

Also, there is NO GUARANTEE we get any sitting head coach or sitting P5 coordinator. There will be so many jobs open at seasons end.......(from another thread)....we could very easily get turned down by 4 or 5 coaches before finding a coach. History says we end up with HUD or a coach that is currently a position coach somewhere. The Mullen hire is unprecedented in our history. Also, at that time, We had a young dynamic AD. We have NO ATHLETIC DIRECTOR currently.

Assuming Mullen is back......THE change that needs to be made is that Mullen needs to turn the defense over and let the DC be his own man. The read and react garbage isn't going to work. We need an aggressive DC that blitzs and can recruit his tail off. Sirmon may be that DC. We shall see. ....if Mullen leaves him alone. I would keep the offensive staff in tact. Because...1. You aren't getting anyone better at this point in Mullen's tenure. 2. Recruiting reasons for Thompson and Hill.

BC is a mess right now. Their AD office is fighting with trustees and donors per the Boston Globe. They may be trying to sort all that out now but BC could pay Mullen and he would be closer to family. I guess it all depends on what is most important to the Mullen family but I don't see BC paying him 4 mil even though they can. Now Baylor.........Baylor would pay him 4 mil. If they want him. But I have no idea if Waco is any better than Starkville and if that is where Megan wants to raise a family.

I am hearing we are NOT firing him regardless of the end of season record. PERIOD.

Good post Basedog, I agree.

I think a majority of the fan base would want DM to stay if he makes changes and shows that he wants to be here. Honestly, I'm in that group. If he goes back to being the DM we hired with the "get rid of everything and everyone keeping us from winning" attitude, I'll be in his camp all day long. If he's not willing to make the tough decisions that will get us back to playing hardnosed football, then he needs to go, voluntarily or not.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

Exactly, it is a crap shoot. We may have a terrible 2017 under Mullen. We may make a FG, catch a pass and make a defensive adjustment and go 6-6.

Also, there is NO GUARANTEE we get any sitting head coach or sitting P5 coordinator. There will be so many jobs open at seasons end.......(from another thread)....we could very easily get turned down by 4 or 5 coaches before finding a coach. History says we end up with HUD or a coach that is currently a position coach somewhere. The Mullen hire is unprecedented in our history. Also, at that time, We had a young dynamic AD. We have NO ATHLETIC DIRECTOR currently.

Assuming Mullen is back......THE change that needs to be made is that Mullen needs to turn the defense over and let the DC be his own man. The read and react garbage isn't going to work. We need an aggressive DC that blitzs and can recruit his tail off. Sirmon may be that DC. We shall see. ....if Mullen leaves him alone. I would keep the offensive staff in tact. Because...1. You aren't getting anyone better at this point in Mullen's tenure. 2. Recruiting reasons for Thompson and Hill.

BC is a mess right now. Their AD office is fighting with trustees and donors per the Boston Globe. They may be trying to sort all that out now but BC could pay Mullen and he would be closer to family. I guess it all depends on what is most important to the Mullen family but I don't see BC paying him 4 mil even though they can. Now Baylor.........Baylor would pay him 4 mil. If they want him. But I have no idea if Waco is any better than Starkville and if that is where Megan wants to raise a family.

I am hearing we are NOT firing him regardless of the end of season record. PERIOD.

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Literally the only person I know who wants Hev to be our OLine coach.

Didn't read everything word for word, but ok giving him another year provided he does the following:

Immediately declares he has no desire to be a candidate for any opening he may be linked to.

Cans Hevesy and possibly Knox.

Actively recruits and signs a reliable kicker ( 99% 30 yards and in, 80% inside 40, & 70% inside 50).

Acts like he cares.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Literally the only person I know who wants Hev to be our OLine coach.

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You can't call Hev a coach. Not sure what you call him but not a coach. You can't have results that bad and be a coach.

I'm betting Peterson will be on the sideline coaching next year, who knows maybe RB's, Wideouts or even QB's and promote Brian Johnson to OC. I just want to see Mullen make some changes and us get back to winning.

Btw, I keep reading where some say we don't have much talent for next year, not sure why as I see talent plus players improve from year to year. I suppose Auburn should have thrown in the towel as most had no idea they may be the second best team in the West, they are by far the most imprved team in the SEC. We can get better and improve, ain't buying we want be better or want be improved nor do I believe we lack talent, inexperienced maybe but I see Mullen playing more younger guys as he did against Kentucky.

Btw, as for as all the Juco's, I'm hoping they at least give us depth if not starting, if so that right there will help a lot.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

Literally the only person I know who wants Hev to be our OLine coach.

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I WANT Mullen to move on. I WANT Hevesy to move on. However, I'm pointing out the reality and not what I want. I'm just a fan. What I want makes no difference.

The reality is.... Mullen isn't firing Hevesy. Anyone that believes that hasn't paid attention for 7 seasons.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I WANT Mullen to move on. I WANT Hevesy to move on. However, I'm pointing out the reality and not what I want. I'm just a fan. What I want makes no difference.

The reality is.... who is going to replace Hevesy? Who is going to come here and work for Mullen for a year maybe two? Some guy from a Sunbelt school or fcs probably.

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Well, if Mullen does move on get ready for a Sunbelt or FCS type Coach as a HC next year, it's our history plus playing in the the toughest division in the country. Which would you prefer and tell me how for a fact we will get a better HC, I don't have an answer? Some think it's just so easy to win at Msu, hell some bitch when we win 8 games and a bowl, we can't win enough for them.

I'm for a change but more in Mullen changing his offensive staff and letting assistants be more in control.

I agree Base.

Read my other post.....I want State to have the best head coach available. But that isn't going to happen with LSU, Texas and others open.

Oh...and no AD in place. The timing is just terrible for us.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

I agree, that's why Dan needs to be a great boss. Some might would consider staying if they love their job and boss.

ETA: Let's say he takes a BC HC job. There's a lot of difference between $4 mill in Starkville as opposed the Boston.

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At the multi-million dollar salary Dan commands, cost-of-living increases would be as much an issue as a fart-in-the-wind.

There are three options for our immediate future and they are all gambles.
1) Mullen stays and at least Hevesy and hopefully a couple of others on the O side leave. The problem with this is that it rarely works when a struggling coach fires an unsuccessful assistant or assistants. First, it is difficult to get quality assistants for what wil be the Head Coach's final year if it does not get turned around. The uncertainty makes it difficult. Further, often the reasons assistants don't do well is poor leadership at the top. That does not change. This is particularly true if the HC feels "forced" into changes.

2) Mullen leaves and we hire a new Head Coach. No matter what the coach's prior record, it is a crap shoot. USCw, Tennessee and Notre Dame are schools with tremendous resources that basically have had their pick and they have struggled for years. Some guys work out as Mullen did with us; some guys don't. The problem is that there is no great metric. Even Saban never won the Big 10 at Michigan State. Who knew he would be the Saban of today?

3) Keeping the same staff. No explanation necessary because if they struggle this year what makes anyone think they want struggle in the future.

The bottom line is we have to have someone who is committed to make MSU a championship program. Mullen was like that at first and in showed. It shows in recruiting and in coaching well enough to at least win the games where you have comparable talent until the recruiting pays off. If Mullen really wants to be a champion at MSU, then he will WANT to make changes on the Offensive side of the ball. He may even recognize that he cannot micromanage everything, especially the defense.

If I werr the new AD, I would talk to him after the season about his vision for the future. If Mullen recognizes what he needs to do well enough to verbalize it, then I would want him to stay. If he does not (at least) say that he is going to change OL and possible other coaching spots on offense and leave the D to whoever the coordinator is, then I would talk to Keenum about letting him go. It is a gamble either way, but I gamble toward excellence.

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Originally Posted by msstatelp1

I think a majority of the fan base would want DM to stay if he makes changes and shows that he wants to be here. Honestly, I'm in that group. If he goes back to being the DM we hired with the "get rid of everything and everyone keeping us from winning" attitude, I'll be in his camp all day long. If he's not willing to make the tough decisions that will get us back to playing hardnosed football, then he needs to go, voluntarily or not.

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Honest post, I'm with you.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Well, if Mullen does move on get ready for a Sunbelt or FCS type Coach as a HC next year, it's our history plus playing in the the toughest division in the country. Which would you prefer and tell me how for a fact we will get a better HC, I don't have an answer? Some think it's just so easy to win at Msu, hell some bitch when we win 8 games and a bowl, we can't win enough for them.

I'm for a change but more in Mullen changing his offensive staff and letting assistants be more in control.

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If the team legitimately busts their ass every play and the coach convinces me that he's giving 100% I would be fine with Tech and 11. That's the major problem I have with Dan. I'm not buying what he is selling right now.

Good post Bigdawg.

Pretty much my thoughts. You wrote it better.