Saw a post from David Murray about Juco's...

the gist of it said that Jucos in MS are no where near as strong as they were in the Jackie Sherrill days b/c MS high schools, their counselors and college coaches are much better about making sure the most talented players get qualified. This logic makes sense to me. So that leaves you with overlooked guys and guys with rough pasts or transfers playing Juco.

With that in mind, it seems like a big gamble at best, or desperation at worst to go after as many jucos as we are this year. Does anyone know how many committable offers we have out there? I count 10.

Last Chance U really opened my eyes. I'm not comfortable loading up on jucos. We've had some great ones no doubt, but we have others that simply never pan out or don't help until their senior year (so one year of good production for a scholarship player). I just don't see how it can be a consistent strategy but time will tell.

Im not sure we have a choice.

Three starters on the OL, plus a backup senior. We need Jucos so we can have some sort of depth otherwise we will have true freshman on the two deep by my count.

Defensively, AJ, Nelson, James, Dale, Calvin, and Coleman are all in the two deep. We need bodies that can play, and it's not like we are competing for five star HS DL, so the Juco route is the only option.

By my count we've got Thomas and Simmons that will have played extensively. That's not enough on the DL next year. We need bodies.

Even if Kobe and Fletcher are ready to contribute, you need at least 6-7 guys that can play on the DL, and I don't see those guys on the roster yet.

We could also use another corner, but it's not as pressing as the DL/OL.

Our commits:
Pope - grades
Autry - grades
Champion - grades
Pierce - grades
Philips - looked over
Sweat - kicked off Michigan State

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Im not sure we have a choice.

Three starters on the OL, plus a backup senior. We need Jucos so we can have some sort of depth otherwise we will have true freshman on the two deep by my count.

Defensively, AJ, Nelson, James, Dale, Calvin, and Coleman are all in the two deep. We need bodies that can play, and it's not like we are competing for five star HS DL, so the Juco route is the only option.

By my count we've got Thomas and Simmons that will have played extensively. That's not enough on the DL next year. We need bodies.

Even if Kobe and Fletcher are ready to contribute, you need at least 6-7 guys that can play on the DL, and I don't see those guys on the roster yet.

We could also use another corner, but it's not as pressing as the DL/OL.

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This is why I haven't bought into "we'll compete next year for SEC". Not even sure we'll compete much at all as thin as we are on OL & DL. I sorta thought we might compete well within SECW some this year with the seniority on our lines. Maybe can compete in 18 tho. That's if all the OL & DL develop well. Actually, that's if everyone develops well. And we don't lose any coaches to speak of (unless it's OL coach ... that might could help us *****)

If you were gonna make an all Mullen team, slay, Ballard, Chris white, and McPhee would be on it. There's still some talent in juco

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Originally Posted by Big4Dawg

Our commits:
Pope - grades
Autry - grades
Champion - grades
Pierce - grades
Philips - looked over
Sweat - kicked off Michigan State

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That's true, I think the point is, if you can't make the grades to get into D1 these days, then it's a pretty big problem.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Im not sure we have a choice.

Three starters on the OL, plus a backup senior. We need Jucos so we can have some sort of depth otherwise we will have true freshman on the two deep by my count.

Defensively, AJ, Nelson, James, Dale, Calvin, and Coleman are all in the two deep. We need bodies that can play, and it's not like we are competing for five star HS DL, so the Juco route is the only option.

By my count we've got Thomas and Simmons that will have played extensively. That's not enough on the DL next year. We need bodies.

Even if Kobe and Fletcher are ready to contribute, you need at least 6-7 guys that can play on the DL, and I don't see those guys on the roster yet.

We could also use another corner, but it's not as pressing as the DL/OL.

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I agree with everything in the post, but you could also sum up that post by saying we are in big trouble next year. If I had to wager on it, I would say 5-7 this year, and no better than 6-6 next year so I'm not sure if Mullen can survive.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

If you were gonna make an all Mullen team, slay, Ballard, Chris white, and McPhee would be on it. There's still some talent in juco

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There's definitely still talent and as many players as we redshirt, we can take strategic risks on JUCO players without it causing a numbers problem. But it's definitely concerning the number of JUCOs we need this year, although on the flipside it seems like they are pretty desirable JUCOs, with at least Champion, Pierce being people we wanted out of high school. I assume some others were too?

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I agree with everything in the post, but you could also sum up that post by saying we are in big trouble next year. If I had to wager on it, I would say 5-7 this year, and no better than 6-6 next year so I'm not sure if Mullen can survive.

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If Mullen gets to 5-7 and 6-6, and it looks like he has fixed his recruiting problems, I think he will be safe. People might as well accept that he has dug himself a multiyear hole to climb out of. If he's not going to be fired this year (and he's not), it's not going to make sense to fire him next year if it looks like he has addressed recruiting.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I agree with everything in the post, but you could also sum up that post by saying we are in big trouble next year. If I had to wager on it, I would say 5-7 this year, and no better than 6-6 next year so I'm not sure if Mullen can survive.

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If he is 6-6 with a win over the bears, he will be fine.

I fully believe that his fate is decided on Thanksgiving in 2017, unless we rally.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

If he is 6-6 with a win over the bears, he will be fine.

I fully believe that his fate is decided on Thanksgiving in 2017, unless we rally.

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If we go 4-8 and get clobbered by Ole Miss this year, his fate could be decided this year. Letting Ole Miss beat us 3 straight years is not conducive to staying on as coach.

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Originally Posted by NCDawg

If we go 4-8 and get clobbered by Ole Miss this year, his fate could be decided this year. Letting Ole Miss beat us 3 straight years is not conducive to staying on as coach.

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I guess I don't understand the ultimate importance of beating the Bears. Of course, we want to win it, but why should that be the one make or break game? Granted, is 5-7 with an OM win that much better than 4-8 with an OM loss? Honestly, I think there are some who would have wanted him fired when he lost the first game to them 2 years ago, regardless of other accomplishments.

We have never had a coach lose three in a row to Ole Miss and keep their job going back to the 50's.

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

I guess I don't understand the ultimate importance of beating the Bears. Of course, we want to win it, but why should that be the one make or break game? Granted, is 5-7 with an OM win that much better than 4-8 with an OM loss? Honestly, I think there are some who would have wanted him fired when he lost the first game to them 2 years ago, regardless of other accomplishments.

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Unfortunately, it's pretty much everything... if we were 10-3 if '14 and 9-4 last year, but we beat om this board wouldn't be near as upset with Dan

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

I guess I don't understand the ultimate importance of beating the Bears. Of course, we want to win it, but why should that be the one make or break game? Granted, is 5-7 with an OM win that much better than 4-8 with an OM loss? Honestly, I think there are some who would have wanted him fired when he lost the first game to them 2 years ago, regardless of other accomplishments.

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We have to win the Egg Bowl to establish in state dominance. If we proclaim that this is Our State but lose the Egg Bowl every year that is very hollow. The fact that they have to cheat excessively is in our favor long term.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We have to win the Egg Bowl to establish in state dominance. If we proclaim that this is Our State but lose the Egg Bowl every year that is very hollow. The fact that they have to cheat excessively is in our favor long term.

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You admit om has cheated excessively to gain the upper hand on us, but hold Mullen accountable for not beating them too. That kinda seems contridictory

To add something: Losing to OM isn't as bad as laying down to OM, which is what happened the last 2 years and in 2012. With our best team under Mullen (and better than OM) and probably our 3rd best team under Mullen (in Starkville). Losing in Starkville is bad, that's very bad.

That kinda stuff happened under Croom plus to Croom the #1 rivalry wasn't OM but Bama.

It has to do with the 10 point grading scale. Hell in the 90's a 69 was an F. Today 59 is a F and 60 is a D. 90 was a B and now it's an A.

We're somewhat lucky we haven't lost to Ole Miss 4 straight years. We won in OT in 2013 by the hair of our chinny chin. We were blown out 3 of the last 4 years.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

To add something: Losing to OM isn't as bad as laying down to OM, which is what happened the last 2 years and in 2012. With our best team under Mullen (and better than OM) and probably our 3rd best team under Mullen (in Starkville). Losing in Starkville is bad, that's very bad.

That kinda stuff happened under Croom plus to Croom the #1 rivalry wasn't OM but Bama.

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I suppose I agree with Croom. For one thing, I live in Alabama and have to put up with Tide fans daily (like most of you guys do the Bears/Bear fans). But more important, beating Alabama is a more meaningful thing to do ... they're good. The Bears are irrelevant most of the time, but they're trying to achieve relevancy by cheating.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

You admit om has cheated excessively to gain the upper hand on us, but hold Mullen accountable for not beating them too. That kinda seems contridictory

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Why is that contradictory? Dan still has to beat them and it's not like they were that much better than us. It's his job to figure out how to beat them like starting with maybe having someone cover their tight end.

The thing that bothers me the most about it is Dan's attitude which seems to be "I don't care". And if the rumors are true about him giving up because of their cheating that's just as bad because that's being a bitch.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

To add something: Losing to OM isn't as bad as laying down to OM, which is what happened the last 2 years and in 2012. With our best team under Mullen (and better than OM) and probably our 3rd best team under Mullen (in Starkville). Losing in Starkville is bad, that's very bad.

That kinda stuff happened under Croom plus to Croom the #1 rivalry wasn't OM but Bama.

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Actually Croom never lost to Ole Miss in Starkville. Let that sink in for a minute.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Actually Croom never lost to Ole Miss in Starkville. Let that sink in for a minute.

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On the flip side he never won at Ole Miss.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

On the flip side he never won at Ole Miss.

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True but I can tolerate that a lot more than losing in Starkville. The home team has won over 70% of the time since 1991.

Probably one reason losing to them doesn't bother me any more than losing to anybody else is that, when I was in school, we never beat them. It was just a given we would lose. That was back just after their glory days.

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

I guess I don't understand the ultimate importance of beating the Bears. Of course, we want to win it, but why should that be the one make or break game? Granted, is 5-7 with an OM win that much better than 4-8 with an OM loss? Honestly, I think there are some who would have wanted him fired when he lost the first game to them 2 years ago, regardless of other accomplishments.

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:rolleyes: C'mon, mane!

Mstate7 is right....We can't put that much importance on beating Ole Miss while also saying OM is about to get hammered for buying great players. I do agree that the preparation and effort in our last few egg bowl's has been pathetic though, and that is more concerning to me than whether we won or lost against a bunch of bought players.

When it's time for Mullen to go, we'll know it. That time isn't right now, and we sure as hell don't need to let Ole Miss's cheating beat us on AND off the field by causing us to fire our best coach ever due to games vs their soon to be under probation program. Think people.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Mstate7 is right....We can't put that much importance on beating Ole Miss while also saying OM is about to get hammered for buying great players. I do agree that the preparation and effort in our last few egg bowl's has been pathetic though, and that is more concerning to me than whether we won or lost against a bunch of bought players.

When it's time for Mullen to go, we'll know it. That time isn't right now, and we sure as hell don't need to let Ole Miss's cheating beat us on AND off the field by causing us to fire our best coach ever due to games vs their soon to be under probation program. Think people.

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I think om's cheating really gave them the upper hand last season and this season. In '14 though, we blew it and Dan deserves the lion's share of the blame.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I think om's cheating really gave them the upper hand last season and this season. In '14 though, we blew it and Dan deserves the lion share of the blame.

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I agree. I just wish people would realize that yes, losing to OM sucks...but we are not a reloading program, and OM is about to go into the shitter with probation...so is losing to a heavily cheating program really worth changing the entire landscape of our program and potentially sending us back to Croom or Orgeron-ish years?? No thanks. I'll take 6-8 wins per year, with 9-10 every 4 or 5 years, and 5 wins every 7-8 years or so. All day & twice on Sunday's.

Now if we go 5-7 this year and then follow it with 5-7....that's a different story. We will never recruit at a high enough level to simply reload. Never. So we will have to accept the occasional shitburger season. OM won't ever recruit well enough to reload either....Legally.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Mstate7 is right....We can't put that much importance on beating Ole Miss while also saying OM is about to get hammered for buying great players. I do agree that the preparation and effort in our last few egg bowl's has been pathetic though, and that is more concerning to me than whether we won or lost against a bunch of bought players.

When it's time for Mullen to go, we'll know it. That time isn't right now, and we sure as hell don't need to let Ole Miss's cheating beat us on AND off the field by causing us to fire our best coach ever due to games vs their soon to be under probation program. Think people.

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Totally agree Clint, like the saying goes, "We see the enemy and the enemy is us"! "We eat our own"

If winning is so damn easy please explain to me why after 100 years of football haven't we won more games? Mullen has done more in 8 years than most have done in the history of football at Msu.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Mstate7 is right....We can't put that much importance on beating Ole Miss while also saying OM is about to get hammered for buying great players. I do agree that the preparation and effort in our last few egg bowl's has been pathetic though, and that is more concerning to me than whether we won or lost against a bunch of bought players.

When it's time for Mullen to go, we'll know it. That time isn't right now, and we sure as hell don't need to let Ole Miss's cheating beat us on AND off the field by causing us to fire our best coach ever due to games vs their soon to be under probation program. Think people.

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The question should be is Dan doing the best he can do and if not what is he doing to fix it? Just because we have a bad history in general doesn't mean we should tolerate mediocrity because of good things done in the past.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

If he is 6-6 with a win over the bears, he will be fine.

I fully believe that his fate is decided on Thanksgiving in 2017, unless we rally.

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If he goes 6-6 next year he should be fired no matter what. Man our fan base loves mediocrity.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I agree. I just wish people would realize that yes, losing to OM sucks...but we are not a reloading program, and OM is about to go into the shitter with probation...so is losing to a heavily cheating program really worth changing the entire landscape of our program and potentially sending us back to Croom or Orgeron-ish years?? No thanks. I'll take 6-8 wins per year, with 9-10 every 4 or 5 years, and 5 wins every 7-8 years or so. All day & twice on Sunday's.

Now if we go 5-7 this year and then follow it with 5-7....that's a different story. We will never recruit at a high enough level to simply reload. Never. So we will have to accept the occasional shitburger season. OM won't ever recruit well enough to reload either....Legally.

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IF we can make a change this offseason we can possibly get someone that can recruit and salvage this class and get us off to a great start next year just as Ole Miss is going on probation at the same time generating excitement and not allowing Ole Miss fans the solace of "well MSU sucks too" for the first year of their probation.

We should be proactive and not wait too see if Dan can turn it around especially when his body language says I don't care. And I will say if Dan did show that he cared I probably would be Ok with another year but generally when people don't care it's extrmely rare that they suddenly start caring again.

Winning seasons should be easier in today's world. You schedule 4 OOC cupcakes( a little harder with the P5 now required and being upset as we were this year), beat the two hopefully bad SEC East teams (which always includes KY), and win a couple of tossup games with equally talented West foes (Arky, Auburn maybe). Still need to be competitive with LSU, aTm, and Bama and beat them every once in a while to get to the next level. UNM should be more easily beaten IF the NCAA hammer ever falls. Please, have the team ready for every game. I don't feel this was case with Bama or UNM the past two years.

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Originally Posted by civildawg

If he goes 6-6 next year he should be fired no matter what. Man our fan base loves mediocrity.

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It's insane. It's not like there aren't multiple examples of MSU waiting too long out there. We tend to wait until the dumpster is engulfed and on fire before going "ok I think coach x is done now". And then we wonder why we can't hire anyone because the previous coach was allowed to recruit shittily for four years trying to turn the thing around before anyone did anything.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Winning seasons should be easier in today's world. You schedule 4 OOC cupcakes( a little harder with the P5 now required and being upset as we were this year), beat the two hopefully bad SEC East teams (which always includes KY), and win a couple of tossup games with equally talented West foes (Arky, Auburn maybe). Still need to be competitive with LSU, aTm, and Bama and beat them every once in a while to get to the next level. UNM should be more easily beaten IF the NCAA hammer ever falls. Please, have the team ready for every game. I don't feel this was case with Bama or UNM the past two years.

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We haven't been ready for anyone this year other than South Carolina so far. And even then we took our foot off the gas in the second half.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The question should be is Dan doing the best he can do and if not what is he doing to fix it? Just because we have a bad history in general doesn't mean we should tolerate mediocrity because of good things done in the past.

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C'mon Todd, you are on a witch hunt! Let the games play out, Dan has done way more good than bad! Geez! You can't find anything positive to say, plus you are like a broken record with the negative comments. You must be on the damn payroll for the agenda. Surely you aren't correct with every negative comment about Dan. Dan hasn't quit, he has made mistakes, I don't think Dan has quit, that would be crazy for a coach who wants out!

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's insane. It's not like there aren't multiple examples of MSU waiting too long out there. We tend to wait until the dumpster is engulfed and on fire before going "ok I think coach x is done now". And then we wonder why we can't hire anyone because the previous coach was allowed to recruit shittily for four years trying to turn the thing around before anyone did anything.

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Obviously you haven't looked into our history very well. How many winning coaches have we had over 100 years of football. If winning is so easy at Msu I would think we would have had a much better won/lost record, 100 plus years Todd!

Dan has made "mistakes"? Hope he hasn't been hanging around with "Mr. Mistake" Freeze! LOL