It's crazy when you look at SEC politics over the decades

Just heard them say on SECN that Alabama never played a game at Auburn until 1989. How does that happen? They also didnt play at all from 1908-1948
OM never would play Alabama hardly at all- 9-48 vs them all-time including their 2 game win streak. OM started playing them every season starting in 1980- 5-31 since then. State is 7-29 in that time frame
We used to play home games vs Auburn in B'ham
Ga Tech withdrew from the SEC over illegal recruiting practices that the SEC wouldnt amend
Tulane dropped out because they felt academics was being overshadowed by athletics and they werent competing anymore

We have such an abysmal record in the SEC because we used to play Auburn, Alabama, and LSU on the road year after year.
From 1933-1957- State played Alabama in Tuscaloosa every year but 1. From 1967-1979 we played in Alabama 8 times and in Jackson 5 times
We played Auburn in Mississippi 5 times before 1970- but played them in the state of Alabama 38 times
From 1931-1970- we played LSU in Louisiana every year but 3 times. Those 3 in Jackson. 1931-1957 all at LSU

Interesting to look back at the politics of how why we are where we are today. And why we lag behind.

Of the "Traditional 10" SEC schools, guess which teams have played Bama and Vandy the most and the least?

MSU has played Bama more than any other SEC school, and has played Vandy less than any SEC school.
The Bears have played Bama less than any other SEC school, and has played Vandy more than any SEC school.

The Bears never played Bama in any of their six SEC championship seasons.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...tate/1902.html


Great site to research all that

A lot of our on the road history was about money. Those were the days when you made your own schedules and played the SEC schools you wanted. We kind of screw our selves a bunch. The only rule I think is you had to play 8 of the 10. Again playing bama so many times was a monetary decision.

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Originally Posted by M.Fillmore

Of the "Traditional 10" SEC schools, guess which teams have played Bama and Vandy the most and the least?

MSU has played Bama more than any other SEC school, and has played Vandy less than any SEC school.
The Bears have played Bama less than any other SEC school, and has played Vandy more than any SEC school.

The Bears never played Bama in any of their six SEC championship seasons.

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No one has played Bama more then State.

Alabama is at the heart of most everything that goes wrong for the other teams in the SEC.

Why do you think Ole Miss is JUST NOW getting in trouble with the NCAA?

Alabama and Auburn played every year in Birmingham. It became a virtual Alabama home game with seating preferences and parking preferences that made that a fact. Besides it was only 40 minutes from the Bama campus. Auburn Coach Pat Dye put his foot down and told Bama the game would be held on alternating years at Auburn and he didn't give a damn where Alabama located it in their year. Alabama didn't like it but Auburn didn't back down and it has been on alternating campuses ever since.

Since we started alternating sites with LSU, Alabama, and Auburn (home, in Starkville and away games), how has our record compared against those teams vs. how the record was when we played at their place virtually every year? In other words, has us playing on campus improved our winning percentage against those schools?

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Since we started alternating sites with LSU, Alabama, and Auburn (home, in Starkville and away games), how has our record compared against those teams vs. how the record was when we played at their place virtually every year? In other words, has us playing on campus improved our winning percentage against those schools?

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We are 35-68-3 vs LSU...from 31-73- we went 12-30-1....we played in Mississippi 4 times in that stretch

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Since we started alternating sites with LSU, Alabama, and Auburn (home, in Starkville and away games), how has our record compared against those teams vs. how the record was when we played at their place virtually every year? In other words, has us playing on campus improved our winning percentage against those schools?

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Our problem with Auburn was from 1955-1990- we went 6-29-1...we played 12 games in Mississippi during that stretch

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

Since we started alternating sites with LSU, Alabama, and Auburn (home, in Starkville and away games), how has our record compared against those teams vs. how the record was when we played at their place virtually every year? In other words, has us playing on campus improved our winning percentage against those schools?

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I'm not sure how much playing on campus has helped to win games in the current era, but I think it must be recognized that the current power houses were built when we were playing them on the road each year &, due to winning then, they recruited better, &, due to recruiting better, they won, built traditions, legendary coaches, etc... & the cycle has continued till this day. The only semi-current SEC power that wasn't built in those years is Florida, but, other than Texas A&M, they have more capitalistic advantages than anyone.

When MSU won the SEC in the early 1940s, what if we would have played a balanced home & road schedule beginning then & started the recruiting & winning cycles for ourselves?

So..... it's not about how our record against Bama & LSU has changed since we started playing them on campus, it's about where our program would be if we had had the opportunity build our own on campus traditions & winning tradition.

In end though, I still believe capitalism would have won out & teams like Bama, LSU, Florida, etc... would still have the advantages due to more instate population, location, & more money within the state. However, I do believe our history would look much better & we'd have more brand awareness across the country.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Just heard them say on SECN that Alabama never played a game at Auburn until 1989. How does that happen? They also didnt play at all from 1908-1948
OM never would play Alabama hardly at all- 9-48 vs them all-time including their 2 game win streak. OM started playing them every season starting in 1980- 5-31 since then. State is 7-29 in that time frame
We used to play home games vs Auburn in B'ham
Ga Tech withdrew from the SEC over illegal recruiting practices that the SEC wouldnt amend
Tulane dropped out because they felt academics was being overshadowed by athletics and they werent competing anymore

We have such an abysmal record in the SEC because we used to play Auburn, Alabama, and LSU on the road year after year.
From 1933-1957- State played Alabama in Tuscaloosa every year but 1. From 1967-1979 we played in Alabama 8 times and in Jackson 5 times
We played Auburn in Mississippi 5 times before 1970- but played them in the state of Alabama 38 times
From 1931-1970- we played LSU in Louisiana every year but 3 times. Those 3 in Jackson. 1931-1957 all at LSU

Interesting to look back at the politics of how why we are where we are today. And why we lag behind.

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Heck we used to sell our games to them all. We made more money that way than having home games. Jackson started the trend away from selling our home game.

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Originally Posted by the59dawg

Heck we used to sell our games to them all. We made more money that way than having home games. Jackson started the trend away from selling our home game.

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Different world back then. We always compare in modern times, but getting from Jackson or Memphis to Starkville was a pain in the arse. There were no 4 lane roads & cars weren't as fast, efficient, or as comfortable as they are today.

Even Alabama played in Birmingham for the same reasons we played in Jackson & Tuscaloosa is only 45 minutes from Birmingham. LSU & Tennessee didn't need to move their games because they were already located in sizable cities.

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Originally Posted by Random Poster

Ga Tech withdrew from the SEC over illegal recruiting practices that the SEC wouldnt amend

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GaTech fancied themselves as the "Notre Dame of the South", and used a variety of excuses, primarily the 140 rule (maximum 140 scholarship athletes across all sports) as the excuse to leave the conference.

They were in such a high place because in those days national prominence was tied to media coverage / big media markets. Atlanta was THE major media market in the South at the time. The SEC as a whole benefited from that coverage.

I remember the resentment of my elders that GaTech left when/the way they did, and the damage they perceived that was done to the conference. As long as those who remember are around, GaTech will never get back in the SEC.

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Originally Posted by benbow

Alabama and Auburn played every year in Birmingham. It became a virtual Alabama home game with seating preferences and parking preferences that made that a fact. Besides it was only 40 minutes from the Bama campus. Auburn Coach Pat Dye put his foot down and told Bama the game would be held on alternating years at Auburn and he didn't give a damn where Alabama located it in their year. Alabama didn't like it but Auburn didn't back down and it has been on alternating campuses ever since.

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They split the tickets longitudinally between the two schools... one side side was orange and blue, the other crimson and white....

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Originally Posted by TUSK

They split the tickets longitudinally between the two schools... one side side was orange and blue, the other crimson and white....

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Big word for a Bama fan

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Big word for a Bama fan

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Thanks, buddy... I'm like all educated n shite...

One more thing....lights. Both State and om didn't have lights on their fields. So, we'd play games in Jackson, Birmingham, and Memphis because they had lights.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

In end though, I still believe capitalism would have won out & teams like Bama, LSU, Florida, etc... would still have the advantages due to more instate population, location, & more money within the state. However, I do believe our history would look much better & we'd have more brand awareness across the country.

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I think you're correct here. Ultimately buying power comes from the things you list, so that was why we were in the position to sell our games so easily, and why we were so easily pushed around. I mean all those teams' fanbases were always bigger than ours. Alabama/Auburn had 80K stadiums filled up in the 80s and we were still rolling in 40K Scott Field.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

I think you're correct here. Ultimately buying power comes from the things you list, so that was why we were in the position to sell our games so easily, and why we were so easily pushed around. I mean all those teams' fanbases were always bigger than ours. Alabama/Auburn had 80K stadiums filled up in the 80s and we were still rolling in 40K Scott Field.

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Your absolutely correct. It's easy to look at those things in hindsight & say, "If only we had played those games on campus....." but we simply don't know the circumstances that surrounded those decisions.

For all we know, MSU's athletic budget for the year was $12 & we could make $10 by playing in Baton Rouge whereas we would've only made $5 by playing the games in Starkville.

It's a little bit like Back to the Future. How would today be different if MSU would've played those games at home? We may have an 80,000 seat stadium, but it's also possible that we don't exist because the program went bankrupt in 1956

I don't think you can use Stadium size as a comparison. When we only played non -Conference teams in Starkville, and all of our big games, every year, on the road. Why did we need more than 40,000 seats? Whereas, of it was like today and a home and home set up, we would have needed a 60,000 seat stadium earlier.

This biggest challenge State has is making up for the 60 years of selling out the Athletic Department. It just looks like we really didn't care. And the whole reason Ole Miss had any success was avoiding the SEC big 6. Vaught routinely scheduled out of conference games as SEC games somehow while avoiding the big 6.

We were our own worst enemy during the 20th century, and even up until 2009. Nowadays, it's the media.

Our lost decade of the 1950s is where our program was broken. We were competitive in facility size and on the field through the 30s and 40s. Scott field was expanded in 1948 to 35,000 - comparable to almost everyone other than UT. But, from 1952-1960 we never had more than 2 home SEC games a season. It was common for us to have 3 home games a season - 2 stinkers and 1 SEC team. Playing 2/3 of your schedule on the road is a death sentence. So people quit coming. Then in the 1960s, everyone else expanded from 35-40,000 seats to powerhouse stadiums:
UGA 59,200 (67-80)
AU 61,261 (70-79)
Bama 60,210 (66-87)
UF 62,800 (66-81)
LSU 67,700+/- (56-77)
UM 35,000 +/- (50-79)
MS 35,000 +/- (48-85)

(I left out UT because they were on another planet from a capacity standpoint)
When the big boom came in the 1980s, we were left holding our dicks wondering what happened.

That's why I just won't get upset about 7-9 win seasons. We are trying to make up for some really, really shitty history.

Ole Miss actually counted games vs Chattanooga as a SEC game on occasions. Don't forget that We played the Gators every year for a long while and finished up with LSU-auburn-Bama and Ole Miss.That was pretty much 5 L's every year. if we won 6 games we were elated.

Historical injustices have no bearing on present inequities. Stop whining.***

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Originally Posted by Reason2succeed

Historical injustices have no bearing on present inequities. Stop whining.***

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^^^^^ dayumm.......that'll make you think.

However, before you embark on a SJW campaign......know that I consider MSU itself to be the root of most of its problems, not the SEC elite.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

Big word for a Bama fan

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Did you know the Bigger the A in the back window means lower the intelligence?

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

Did you know the Bigger the A in the back window means lower the intelligence?

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nooooooooooooooo, doubt!!!!!!!! I'm with ya 100% on that one...

"We have met the enemy and he is us."...Pogo

Great thread guys, facts have finally got in the way of reality. The lost years costed us dearly compared to our peers in the conference. Hopefully, the apathy of those years will never return and the state can truly support two SEC teams not just the team up north.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

^^^^^ dayumm.......that'll make you think.

However, before you embark on a SJW campaign......know that I consider MSU itself to be the root of most of its problems, not the SEC elite.

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HAHA! I would NEVER do that.*** I know it's not apples to apples but it was just too enticing.

Back to topic. I think this history is the reason why unlike OM we must steer clear of going all out for championships. OM wants to return to glory years that were propped up by avoiding the elite teams. Now they are simply trying to cheat their way into the conversation. However, the NCAA is about to put them back in their place because they were committing fraud in order to catch up.

We are making great progress the right way. As much as people complain Mullen and especially about Hevesy this is still the golden age of Mississippi State football. We need to position ourselves so that if/when Mullen leaves State we are able to continue building upon what he has built. Unlike OM who's next coach will be picking up the pieces from the ashes left by Hypocrite Hugh.