My greatest fear concerning OM's pending probation...

... is the fact the if they do get hammered, the Network of boosters, disassociated or not, will come together and look at the stuff they are accused of and say "Boys, the NCAA spent 3+ years digging into our dubious ways of doing things and really didn't find all that much" (1). "If we would have paid off Miller like I told y'all, they wouldn't have much at all". "They couldn't trace the signing bonuses, the new vehicles, the jobs for the parents or the multitude of stipends we pay out each week". "We tie up a few loose ends and we can keep on keeping on!" "They found nada on Nkemdiche or Treadwell and we all know how much they cost!" "Hahahahaha". "We got hammered boys, but it's business as usual! Let's get the best ones we can get with the schollies we have left." "Now pass me that manila envelope with the info on that 5* DL out of NC... what's it gonna take to get him? My bagman is ready."

(1) Yes I realize they have 8 Level 1's but considering what the Network was probably doing for the last 4+ years... they have to figure their plan, for the most part, is still solid.

Let me throw out an alternate possibility...the NCAA realized they already have enough to bury the Bears from now til rapture and just said to hell with it and wrapped things up. Remember, they already had 8 level 1's BEFORE draft night. Then big softie disconnected his mouth from his brain and the NCAA turned back around and cranked up again. Also remember this about the NCAA - they can still punish you for what they can't prove. They got all those level ones they can prove. Why stick around another 6 months trying to get irrefutable evidence on stuff they strongly suspect when they can already punish them for it under the guise of what they can prove? Despite common bear beliefs, not everybody gets a hard on at the thought of going to Oxford. Even if they were supposedly invited back the second time by Bdork. <-- one of their more delusional statements.

The fact they got caught cheating while under investigation ought to give them instant repeat offender status. Tunsil's admission that a coach and an asst athletic director were funneling him cash when they knew the NCAA was still smoldering around ought to mean near destruction of their program.

If not, then if they get caught again on anything they are toast. SMU style.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

... is the fact the if they do get hammered, the Network of boosters, disassociated or not, will come together and look at the stuff they are accused of and say "Boys, the NCAA spent 3+ years digging into our dubious ways of doing things and really didn't find all that much" (1). "If we would have paid off Miller like I told y'all, they wouldn't have much at all". "They couldn't trace the signing bonuses, the new vehicles, the jobs for the parents or the multitude of stipends we pay out each week". "We tie up a few loose ends and we can keep on keeping on!" "They found nada on Nkemdiche or Treadwell and we all know how much they cost!" "Hahahahaha". "We got hammered boys, but it's business as usual! Let's get the best ones we can get with the schollies we have left." "Now pass me that manila envelope with the info on that 5* DL out of NC... what's it gonna take to get him? My bagman is ready."

(1) Yes I realize they have 8 Level 1's but considering what the Network was probably doing for the last 4+ years... they have to figure their plan, for the most part, is still solid.

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Why have fear about them going on probation, bowl ban, show cause, loss of schollies, etc? I just don't get it. This is some delusional OM bullshit here. Basically saying we didn't do anything wrong so it won't be that bad and our network is so good we can keep on keeping on. Is that what you're saying? Is it?

My fear is they get off light. And college sports become the Wild West. We don't have the fan base numbers to compete if all players go to the highest bidder. And really, neither does Ole Miss (they just don't know it). But instantly the Big 10 schools would get much better. As would Texas, and TAMU.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

My fear is they get off light. And college sports become the Wild West. We don't have the fan base numbers to compete if all players go to the highest bidder. And really, neither does Ole Miss (they just don't know it). But instantly the Big 10 schools would get much better. As would Texas, and TAMU.

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I refuse to worry about that until it happens. If it does happen, then you are right. Every school in the nation wil take the gloves off and a bidding war will start for the elite players. Well, we probably still want, but every other school will.

But right now I just can't see how they let them off lightly with the number and severity of the charges levied against them. I really don't think the NCAA wants to open up that can of worms.

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Originally Posted by SheltonChoked

My fear is they get off light. And college sports become the Wild West. We don't have the fan base numbers to compete if all players go to the highest bidder. And really, neither does Ole Miss (they just don't know it). But instantly the Big 10 schools would get much better. As would Texas, and TAMU.

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This. If it did become the Wild West then status quo would return. The big boys haven't had to color outside the lines much to win...if they do...watch out

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Why have fear about them going on probation, bowl ban, show cause, loss of schollies, etc? I just don't get it. This is some delusional OM bullshit here. Basically saying we didn't do anything wrong so it won't be that bad and our network is so good we can keep on keeping on. Is that what you're saying? Is it?

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**** them....

Let's see how good the "network" is when they get hammered with 25 scholly or more reduction.. Unless the "network" has a couple years of eligibility left to play and want to be preferred walkons, they won't matter for a while ... A long while..

Plus with unm stepping on the toes of Alabama, Georgia, Florida State, Michigan, and who knows maybe more, I don't see how the NCAA can keep from hammering them.

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Originally Posted by Martianlander

Plus with unm stepping on the toes of Alabama, Georgia, Florida State, Michigan, and who knows maybe more, I don't see how the NCAA can keep from hammering them.

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If the blue bloods truly fueled this investigation, I have no fears of om skating

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Originally Posted by mic

**** them....

Let's see how good the "network" is when they get hammered with 25 scholly or more reduction.. Unless the "network" has a couple years of eligibility left to play and want to be preferred walkons, they won't matter for a while ... A long while..

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^^This is what must have them. Cripple 'em with the threat of DP if they get caught again in the next X number of years!

I swear people, this is just delusional thinking on your part.

The investigation was over months ago in Oxford and the current football staff was found to have no infractions. UNM does not use a "pay to play" program for it's football and basketball players. Hugh Freezus would never do anything "inside that building" that would put his football program in jeapordy. God has smiled on UNM and provided every football player they have signed since 2012. Hugh is just beside himself for "making mistakes" because no man of God would do such a thing. They are drawing #1 players because the campus is so beautiful and GREEN. *****************************

Their lawyer mindset gives them false hope that they will win out because of their legal skills. I hope they go on thinking that way.

If they let umn off lightly that would be one more nail in the coffin of amateurism. The NCAA would be on the way out the door and minor league football clubs would be full on.

Does anybody really know what will be the outcome of all this and what extra infractions will be found other than the original? If anybody has any inside info, please let them speak up.

I do know this, its not going to be as bad as I want it to be.

I like what someone posted previously about the scholarship reduction will result is seeing a lot of 4 star and 5 star walk-ons.

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Originally Posted by shannondawg

Does anybody really know what will be the outcome of all this and what extra infractions will be found other than the original? If anybody has any inside info, please let them speak up.

I do know this, its not going to be as bad as I want it to be.

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The NCAA COI is the only one that knows what they are going to do and they may not have even decided yet. Everything on TSUN's part is mainly delusion that they haven't really found anything and that the sanctions won't be that bad, and everything on the MSU side is looking at similar cases at other schools and the penalties they got. I'm sure reality will be somewhere in the middle of the two, but I am still thinking leaning more towards the MSU side of thinking. The NCAA knows they have got to set an example or all these fears of things happening will happen and they can't have that. My only question is how much of an influence Sankey tries to have in the matter. Does he try to protect the image of the conference as a whole and force the NCAA to tread a little lighter than they want, or does he take the stance of being tough and following the rules and allow a mid-tier team get eviscerated to give that image? I know he was quoted back during media days that it was his desire that no team under his watch get a bowl ban or have to return a trophy. You could read into that he will actively try to protect teams that broike rules for the sake of image or you could read into that he will try to do everything in his power that all the conference teams play by the rules and don't put themselves into that situation like TSUN has done.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

... is the fact the if they do get hammered, the Network of boosters, disassociated or not, will come together and look at the stuff they are accused of and say "Boys, the NCAA spent 3+ years digging into our dubious ways of doing things and really didn't find all that much" (1). "If we would have paid off Miller like I told y'all, they wouldn't have much at all". "They couldn't trace the signing bonuses, the new vehicles, the jobs for the parents or the multitude of stipends we pay out each week". "We tie up a few loose ends and we can keep on keeping on!" "They found nada on Nkemdiche or Treadwell and we all know how much they cost!" "Hahahahaha". "We got hammered boys, but it's business as usual! Let's get the best ones we can get with the schollies we have left." "Now pass me that manila envelope with the info on that 5* DL out of NC... what's it gonna take to get him? My bagman is ready."

(1) Yes I realize they have 8 Level 1's but considering what the Network was probably doing for the last 4+ years... they have to figure their plan, for the most part, is still solid.

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They are not as smart as you making them out to be. If they were that smart they would not be in trouble.

I don't have any fear. I have hope that Ole Miss cheats again after the penalties are in place, and that they get DP'd** by 2018.


** Intentionally ambiguous abbreviation.

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Originally Posted by mic

**** them....

Let's see how good the "network" is when they get hammered with 25 scholly or more reduction.. Unless the "network" has a couple years of eligibility left to play and want to be preferred walkons, they won't matter for a while ... A long while..

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^^THIS X 1000^^

They will be crippled with loss of scholarships and it will take a decade to turn things around. The "network" can't put warm bodies on the roster in the midst of scholarship losses.

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Why have fear about them going on probation, bowl ban, show cause, loss of schollies, etc? I just don't get it. This is some delusional OM bullshit here. Basically saying we didn't do anything wrong so it won't be that bad and our network is so good we can keep on keeping on. Is that what you're saying? Is it?

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Yes, that is what he's saying and it isn't without precedent. Tubberville did it. But this time, unless the NCAA uses what little teeth they have left, it will happen again. He's basically saying that the boosters are willing to play chicken with the NCAA.

If you ask the more experienced MSU Alumni, (those who have been around since the Vaught years at OM), they'll tell you that yes indeed, OM will keep cheating. That's a given, and I very much agree.

But these things will always happen in cycles. OM fans that believe this is a bump in the road are gravely mistaken, and they will have some lousy years in the near future. The NCAA has to cripple them if they want to remain an entity of consequence. The Power 5 grows stronger yearly, and they can assert themselves at any given time. But they won't come to the defense of OM. Small potatoes in the big picture.

Show Causes for Freeze and much of his staff along with 20-25 over 4-5 would be devastating. Might take a decade to get back in the picture. But that's a lot like asking members of ISIS all to gather somewhere on an island so we could nuke them.

delete

Talking to an UNM supporter at a meeting I recently attended. He asked me what I thought would happen with the NCAA. I replied that they were going to get hammered. He agreed. I then stated that after a large # of scholarships were lost, that they would have more 4 and 5 star walk-on's come to UM than any school in the history of college football. He agreed again. My Dad carried me to my first State-UM game in 1964. Without a very strong penalty from the NCAA, they will never change.

Even if OM goes back to their pre 2013 recruiting ways, it is a win for us. Mullen had beaten that system 3 years in a row, and 4 out of 5. Plus, there is always the chance they mess up and get repeat offender status.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

... is the fact the if they do get hammered, the Network of boosters, disassociated or not, will come together and look at the stuff they are accused of and say "Boys, the NCAA spent 3+ years digging into our dubious ways of doing things and really didn't find all that much" (1). "If we would have paid off Miller like I told y'all, they wouldn't have much at all". "They couldn't trace the signing bonuses, the new vehicles, the jobs for the parents or the multitude of stipends we pay out each week". "We tie up a few loose ends and we can keep on keeping on!" "They found nada on Nkemdiche or Treadwell and we all know how much they cost!" "Hahahahaha". "We got hammered boys, but it's business as usual! Let's get the best ones we can get with the schollies we have left." "Now pass me that manila envelope with the info on that 5* DL out of NC... what's it gonna take to get him? My bagman is ready."

(1) Yes I realize they have 8 Level 1's but considering what the Network was probably doing for the last 4+ years... they have to figure their plan, for the most part, is still solid.

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I agree. It appears they are getting away with the worst infractions (unless the new investigation into the 2016 class turns up something).

Even with a 2-year bowl ban, if Freeze is still there, they will still sign 5* and 4* and the recruits will talk about "getting to play in the NC playoff when I'm a junior or senior". It will only be one year left for the 2018 recruits.

Even with severe scholarship penalties they will still be able to sign classes of 15-20, so the 5* and 4* recruits will still get scholarships. It's the 3-star recruits who will walk-on at OM (over scholarship offers from other D1 schools) and be taken care of.

To truly be effective to punish OM, the NCAA has to give Freeze a show cause or watch them VERY closely over the next few years to catch them for repeat offender status.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

I agree. It appears they are getting away with the worst infractions (unless the new investigation into the 2016 class turns up something).

Even with a 2-year bowl ban, if Freeze is still there, they will still sign 5* and 4* and the recruits will talk about "getting to play in the NC playoff when I'm a junior or senior". It will only be one year left for the 2018 recruits.

Even with severe scholarship penalties they will still be able to sign classes of 15-20, so the 5* and 4* recruits will still get scholarships. It's the 3-star recruits who will walk-on at OM (over scholarship offers from other D1 schools) and be taken care of.

To truly be effective to punish OM, the NCAA has to give Freeze a show cause or watch them VERY closely over the next few years to catch them for repeat offender status.

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So you think om can withstand punishments that crippled usc?

If they get close to what USC got it will cripple them. Say bye to the kimchees tonsils and littles of the world. They will get a few good ms players but anybody on the national recruit level is t going there. I don't care how beautiful their campus is or how threatening freezus' teeth are.

I agree with I seen it. You guys are giving the Bearsharts too much credit. So unm can withstand punishment that set USCw back a decade? Y'all do realize that this is the only team in the west that hasn't been to Atlanta right? This isn't some blue blood program that can recruit itself. Anywhere north of 20 scholly reduction will be devastating. Hell an 8 scholly reduction set us back 15 years, of course it didn't help that we pretty much self imposed a 5 year death penalty by hiring ol' Sly Crooms.

The thing I'm worried about is UNM will get off easy because of what recent SEC/NCAA infractions did to other SEC schools. Remember the the SEC is the top of the heap in football.

Example A: the Scam debacle at AU. Cam is required to be suspended for 1/2 a game then magically reinstated by the NCAA because Scam says he knew nothing about his daddy pimping him out for pay-for-play 180K. Geesh!

Example B: Johnny football at TAM signing autograph football memorabilia for undisclosed amounts $$'s. Probably in the 6 figure range. All that happened to Johnny/TAM was he was suspended for the first game of the year against a team that TAM could have beaten with their water boys and athletic trainers. Geesh!

Example C: The Univ of Miami. No need for further discussion. Total NCAA screw up!

The only glimmer of hope is what the NCAA did to La. Lafayette regarding Saunders and the ACT scandal.

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Originally Posted by Ranchdawg

The thing I'm worried about is UNM will get off easy because of what recent SEC/NCAA infractions did to other SEC schools. Remember the the SEC is the top of the heap in football.

Example A: the Scam debacle at AU. Cam is required to be suspended for 1/2 a game then magically reinstated by the NCAA because Scam says he knew nothing about his daddy pimping him out for pay-for-play 180K. Geesh!

Example B: Johnny football at TAM signing autograph football memorabilia for undisclosed amounts $$'s. Probably in the 6 figure range. All that happened to Johnny/TAM was he was suspended for the first game of the year against a team that TAM could have beaten with their water boys and athletic trainers. Geesh!

Example C: The Univ of Miami. No need for further discussion. Total NCAA screw up!

The only glimmer of hope is what the NCAA did to La. Lafayette regarding Saunders and the ACT scandal.

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Cam was at the end of a heisman trophy/national championship run. JFF was the biggest star in college football. Who has that kind of star power on om? In fact, om's biggest star last year was suspended for half the season, so obviously this isn't apples to apples

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Cam was at the end of a heisman trophy/national championship run. JFF was the biggest star in college football. Who has that kind of star power on om? In fact, om's biggest star last year was suspended for half the season, so obviously this is apples to apples

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TRUE

If that happens, college sports is over.

That means the NCAA has lost control and after one year of 5* walk on's at Ole miss. Then Bama and the big boys will go all out.

Might as well call it NFL jr

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg34

The NCAA COI is the only one that knows what they are going to do and they may not have even decided yet. Everything on TSUN's part is mainly delusion that they haven't really found anything and that the sanctions won't be that bad, and everything on the MSU side is looking at similar cases at other schools and the penalties they got. I'm sure reality will be somewhere in the middle of the two, but I am still thinking leaning more towards the MSU side of thinking. The NCAA knows they have got to set an example or all these fears of things happening will happen and they can't have that. My only question is how much of an influence Sankey tries to have in the matter. Does he try to protect the image of the conference as a whole and force the NCAA to tread a little lighter than they want, or does he take the stance of being tough and following the rules and allow a mid-tier team get eviscerated to give that image? I know he was quoted back during media days that it was his desire that no team under his watch get a bowl ban or have to return a trophy. You could read into that he will actively try to protect teams that broike rules for the sake of image or you could read into that he will try to do everything in his power that all the conference teams play by the rules and don't put themselves into that situation like TSUN has done.

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Here is something that a lot of people never bring up. These sanctions go back to the last 3 university chancellors, 2 athletic directors and 3 head coaches. This is clearly habitual and a perfect example of "lack of institutional control". Not only that, but the NCAA as late as a week to week and a half ago were still interviewing people. It is a long, long way from being over and if they weren't uncovering further irregularities there interviewing people would cease and it's not. It's going to be bad for them, book it!

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Originally Posted by Ranchdawg

The thing I'm worried about is UNM will get off easy because of what recent SEC/NCAA infractions did to other SEC schools. Remember the the SEC is the top of the heap in football.

Example A: the Scam debacle at AU. Cam is required to be suspended for 1/2 a game then magically reinstated by the NCAA because Scam says he knew nothing about his daddy pimping him out for pay-for-play 180K. Geesh!

Example B: Johnny football at TAM signing autograph football memorabilia for undisclosed amounts $$'s. Probably in the 6 figure range. All that happened to Johnny/TAM was he was suspended for the first game of the year against a team that TAM could have beaten with their water boys and athletic trainers. Geesh!

Example C: The Univ of Miami. No need for further discussion. Total NCAA screw up!

The only glimmer of hope is what the NCAA did to La. Lafayette regarding Saunders and the ACT scandal.

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This was before the NCAA's new penalty matrix kicked in. And Manziel's case was different from the other two. The NCAA has been showing their teeth in basketball, and the OM case will be their first chance in football. OM is getting major sanctions- anything thinking different is kidding themselves

Pretty sure that there's a rule that prevents players from walking on if they have other D1 offers....they can walk on, but I think they have to count against your scholarship numbers if they have other offers.