Arizona cost us a national title

I honestly believe that. Especially with the way things are playing out. We played like crap and they barely beat us 1-0 and 6-5 in extras. They are basically wearing their pitchers out to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if Dalbac, Bannister, and Ming had collectively pitched 1200 pitches between them in the CWS. It's really criminal what Johnson is doing and I hope it hurts them in recruiting. I don't think I could name another pitcher of theirs except those three. Unless something miraculous happens, Arizona will make the CWS final with three total pitchers. That is just wild. Of course, in the CWS final none of those pitchers should pitch but with that Johnson guy I bet all three pitch and it wouldn't surprise me if it ruins one of those kids careers.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I honestly believe that. Especially with the way things are playing out. We played like crap and they barely beat us 1-0 and 6-5 in extras. They are basically wearing their pitchers out to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if Dalbac, Bannister, and Ming had collectively pitched 1200 pitches between them in the CWS. It's really criminal what Johnson is doing and I hope it hurts them in recruiting. I don't think I could name another pitcher of theirs except those three. Unless something miraculous happens, Arizona will make the CWS final with three total pitchers. That is just wild. Of course, in the CWS final none of those pitchers should pitch but with that Johnson guy I bet all three pitch and it wouldn't surprise me if it ruins one of those kids careers.

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The bitterness is thick here. They beat us & did it fairly

Yea I firmly believe if we had hit the ball like we had all year in the supers and into Omaha we would have won it this year. That's why I was so sick after we lost. I knew this would be our year. We had a loaded team and pitching staff to make a deep run with a few things going our way we would have won. Makes me absolutely sick the talent MSU has had over all the years and we couldn't finish just one time. We need to quit calling Florida State chokeU until we do something ourselves. Yea we got to the title game in 13' but it don't mean shit unless you win it. I hope Coastal wins again vs TCU and spanks Arizona's ass. It will be Zona's 5th Natty if they win. Pretty remarkable the tradition that program has and it will be with 3 different head coaches I believe.

Woulda coulda shoulda didn't.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I honestly believe that. Especially with the way things are playing out. We played like crap and they barely beat us 1-0 and 6-5 in extras. They are basically wearing their pitchers out to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if Dalbac, Bannister, and Ming had collectively pitched 1200 pitches between them in the CWS. It's really criminal what Johnson is doing and I hope it hurts them in recruiting. I don't think I could name another pitcher of theirs except those three. Unless something miraculous happens, Arizona will make the CWS final with three total pitchers. That is just wild. Of course, in the CWS final none of those pitchers should pitch but with that Johnson guy I bet all three pitch and it wouldn't surprise me if it ruins one of those kids careers.

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Bannister went out with an injury the other night. I agree with you, he's abusing his pitchers. I was thinking the other night I only have seen those 3 pitchers. They got hot at the right time and had timely hits but he's killing those arms. Hate seeing coaches do that to young pitchers.

Did Dalbac get drafted?

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Originally Posted by Harrydawg

Did Dalbac get drafted?

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Yes as an infielder.

Yes, he is definitely abusing his arms but its working for them so far. They have given up only 6 runs in the CWS now deep into their 5th game. Only in one of the 5 games have they allowed more than 1 run. That is stout to say the least. Looks like they will be in the championship series so guess we will see if their overused arms hold on long enough to win 2 more games.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg

Woulda coulda shoulda didn't.

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Whether it be '85, '89, '13, '16 etc., that could probably be our program's motto. Hope I live long enough to actually see us win it all one year but I'm not going to hold my breath.

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Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg

Woulda coulda shoulda didn't.

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Very true!

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Originally Posted by Harrydawg

Did Dalbac get drafted?

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4th round as a 3rd baseman I believe

We're the Cubs

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Yes, he is definitely abusing his arms but its working for them so far. They have given up only 6 runs in the CWS now deep into their 5th game. Only in one of the 5 games have they allowed more than 1 run. That is stout to say the least. Looks like they will be in the championship series so guess we will see if their overused arms hold on long enough to win 2 more games.

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They gonna have to do it without bannister, he went down the other night with injury. Arm probably fell off lol. I agree with you it's worked for them so far, I just cringe when I see coaches abusing kids arms. Been coaching a long time and seen way to many kids with futures done way too early, but to each his own.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Whether it be '85, '89, '13, '16 etc.,

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Don't forget 1979. That was another very good team that should have won it all. I think we only lost two SEC games that year.

F everything

Wouldn't surprise me if they pitched Bannister on Monday since according to them the guy only pitched 30 pitches on Friday, lol. I guess they will wait until the arm goes snap until they figure out pitching a pitcher as much as they do is not a good idea. I am pulling for Coastal or TCU to win the thing. Getting just to the championship series is not worth these kids' futures.

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Originally Posted by M.Fillmore

Don't forget 1979. That was another very good team that should have won it all. I think we only lost two SEC games that year.

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Two other teams I liked a lot - '81, won the first game of CWS, then lost 4-3 to eventual champ Arizona State. In that game, Castoria hit a towering foul ball that would've been a game winning two run homer. It wasn't foul by much.
'84, essentially same lineup as '85 with one big difference. Had Bobby Parker at SS, he was good. Lost 6 team regional at home when UNO's Stuart Weide hit a grand slam off Brantley, and their ace pitcher Wally the whip Whitehurst baffled us except for a 3 run homer by Raffy, who was simply awesome that season.
What might've been...

If I'm going to be eliminated by someone I would much rather it be by someone that wins the whole thing or goes deep as opposed to someone that goes two and bar-b-que.

That said I'd rather win the whole damn thing.

But I think winning is a process in baseball and for some reason no matter what level it is, the teams with experience usually end up winning the whole thing. That's the worst part about us not making it to Omaha IMO because now Mangum, Marrero, Pilkington and etc. could have used the experience of going to help us win later. Hopefully we at least get that experience the next two years.

We had never been to Omaha until 1971 as a program and we really haven't started going once every 4-5 years until Polk came along and did it starting in 1979.- so we're still relatively new compared to a program like USC, Texas, or even Arizona. We didn't become a regular at hosting regionals until the 1980's and even then we lost most of those regionals until the 1990's where we have won almost all of our regionals at home since 1997 and we're 1 out of 2 in SR at home since then as well. So, the past 20 years or so we have just now gotten to the point where if we host a regional we're likely winning it.

For most of Polk's tenure we just didn't have the pitching depth we needed to win the whole thing- which I think in part influenced his decision to keep Morgan in the game in 1985 after getting hit with that line drive. We have that kind of depth now but now the past few times we have been in a big game situation our hitters have locked up and tried to do too much and it resulted in a lot of bad AB's and weak fly balls this year in the SR and in the Finals in 2013. So, to me it's just a matter of our guys relaxing and just playing the game like they have and not trying to do too much. If they do that, then everything else takes care of itself.

And in 2013 Brandon Woodruff being hurt really KILLED us in the finals as well. If we had been able to start him along with Graveman we don't have to start Pollorena.

I think our group of freshmen this year are going to have a chance to make some noise in Omaha as well. Pilkington is turning some heads in the Cape. We've seen what Mangum can do and he is a special player who is only going to get better. Marrero was nominated for the Johnny Bench Award as a freshman- and he's only going to get better as well. LA is showing some power as well and Stovall is a good player. Breaux and Small are going to be elite starting pitchers as well and Padgett is getting better in the Cape. Very excited about our rising sophomores- we just need to hope the JUCO's coming in supplement the power hitters we have lost to the draft over the years.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

If I'm going to be eliminated by someone I would much rather it be by someone that wins the whole thing or goes deep as opposed to someone that goes two and bar-b-que.

That said I'd rather win the whole damn thing.

But I think winning is a process in baseball and for some reason no matter what level it is, the teams with experience usually end up winning the whole thing. That's the worst part about us not making it to Omaha IMO because now Mangum, Marrero, Pilkington and etc. could have used the experience of going to help us win later. Hopefully we at least get that experience the next two years.

We had never been to Omaha until 1971 as a program and we really haven't started going once every 4-5 years until Polk came along and did it starting in 1979.- so we're still relatively new compared to a program like USC, Texas, or even Arizona. We didn't become a regular at hosting regionals until the 1980's and even then we lost most of those regionals until the 1990's where we have won almost all of our regionals at home since 1997 and we're 1 out of 2 in SR at home since then as well. So, the past 20 years or so we have just now gotten to the point where if we host a regional we're likely winning it.

For most of Polk's tenure we just didn't have the pitching depth we needed to win the whole thing- which I think in part influenced his decision to keep Morgan in the game in 1985 after getting hit with that line drive. We have that kind of depth now but now the past few times we have been in a big game situation our hitters have locked up and tried to do too much and it resulted in a lot of bad AB's and weak fly balls this year in the SR and in the Finals in 2013. So, to me it's just a matter of our guys relaxing and just playing the game like they have and not trying to do too much. If they do that, then everything else takes care of itself.

And in 2013 Brandon Woodruff being hurt really KILLED us in the finals as well. If we had been able to start him along with Graveman we don't have to start Pollorena.

I think our group of freshmen this year are going to have a chance to make some noise in Omaha as well. Pilkington is turning some heads in the Cape. We've seen what Mangum can do and he is a special player who is only going to get better. Marrero was nominated for the Johnny Bench Award as a freshman- and he's only going to get better as well. LA is showing some power as well and Stovall is a good player. Breaux and Small are going to be elite starting pitchers as well and Padgett is getting better in the Cape. Very excited about our rising sophomores- we just need to hope the JUCO's coming in supplement the power hitters we have lost to the draft over the years.

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Agree and Rook and Kruger coming back does wonders for power next season. Rook seemed to have figured it out as the season went along and was hot in the regionals and supers. I only expect guys like him Mangum, Marrero, Kruger, Stovall and LA to improve. But Rook will be a big time leader for this team next year.

That's Baseball!!!

I guess you are correct Todd in teams with experience win the CWS but this is a weird year and if Coastal wins tonight that theory will go out the window this year as TCU is the only team with any experience left. OSU didn't have any and Arizona (even though yes their history tells you otherwise) didn't even have any regional experience with a first year coach who didn't have much post season experience. If our team had made it to Omaha with that group who are there and on the opposite side of the bracket as UF, I know we could have at least made the championship series. We had the pitching staff to do it and at least 3-4 starting pitches.

Arizona IMO is kind of cheating because they are really only using two pitchers and for the most part one bullpen guy. I think the way the championship series is set up will catch up with them as it would be almost impossible for them to use Bannister on two days rest and then Dalbac on two days rest so we will get to see if Arizona has the other pitchers to win the title. Who knows but I don't like Johnson setting this precedent because I think in the long run it will hurt both Bannister's and Dalbac's professional careers.

Don't forget 1983. Texas lost only one game in the post-season, and that was to MSU in the Regional. Texas had to beat us twice on Sunday to advance to the CWS. They pitched Calvin Schiradi and Roger Clemens. Actually, Schiraldi was a better college pitcher than Clemens. Texas beat us twice and then sailed through the CWS unbeaten.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I honestly believe that. Especially with the way things are playing out. We played like crap and they barely beat us 1-0 and 6-5 in extras. They are basically wearing their pitchers out to the point where it wouldn't surprise me if Dalbac, Bannister, and Ming had collectively pitched 1200 pitches between them in the CWS. It's really criminal what Johnson is doing and I hope it hurts them in recruiting. I don't think I could name another pitcher of theirs except those three. Unless something miraculous happens, Arizona will make the CWS final with three total pitchers. That is just wild. Of course, in the CWS final none of those pitchers should pitch but with that Johnson guy I bet all three pitch and it wouldn't surprise me if it ruins one of those kids careers.

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Maybe they did, but they beat us at home fair and square. We can't complain at all.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Maybe they did, but they beat us at home fair and square. We can't complain at all.

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Sure, they beat us fair and square but what pissed me off is we didn't play our A game and they took advantage of us not playing up to our abilities. If we just play average or a little above average and are able to do anything at the plate we easily win that series. It sucks we didn't show up when we needed to but if you look at our history that is what we do. 1989 comes to mind and I know that team would have won a national championship. It sucks that two of our most talented teams didn't even make it to the CWS.

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Originally Posted by djaymsu5

Agree and Rook and Kruger coming back does wonders for power next season. Rook seemed to have figured it out as the season went along and was hot in the regionals and supers. I only expect guys like him Mangum, Marrero, Kruger, Stovall and LA to improve. But Rook will be a big time leader for this team next year.

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Rooker is hitting over .400 in the Cape right now and Mangum is right at .400 going into today.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Sure, they beat us fair and square but what pissed me off is we didn't play our A game and they took advantage of us not playing up to our abilities. If we just play average or a little above average and are able to do anything at the plate we easily win that series. It sucks we didn't show up when we needed to but if you look at our history that is what we do. 1989 comes to mind and I know that team would have won a national championship. It sucks that two of our most talented teams didn't even make it to the CWS.

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of the two that Texas had to beat us and then split the innings of the second game between Herzog and Brantley.
And you're right about schiraldi being better than Clemens.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I guess you are correct Todd in teams with experience win the CWS but this is a weird year and if Coastal wins tonight that theory will go out the window this year as TCU is the only team with any experience left. OSU didn't have any and Arizona (even though yes their history tells you otherwise) didn't even have any regional experience with a first year coach who didn't have much post season experience. If our team had made it to Omaha with that group who are there and on the opposite side of the bracket as UF, I know we could have at least made the championship series. We had the pitching staff to do it and at least 3-4 starting pitches.

Arizona IMO is kind of cheating because they are really only using two pitchers and for the most part one bullpen guy. I think the way the championship series is set up will catch up with them as it would be almost impossible for them to use Bannister on two days rest and then Dalbac on two days rest so we will get to see if Arizona has the other pitchers to win the title. Who knows but I don't like Johnson setting this precedent because I think in the long run it will hurt both Bannister's and Dalbac's professional careers.

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It doesn't mean my theory goes out the window. It means that there are occasional exceptions. For every Fresno State there are 9-10 UCLA's, South Carolina's, Virginia's, etc.

Arizona isn't cheating- but in today's game I would say it is unethical. And it will affect them going forward in a negative way whether they win it or not. With Bannister likely out I have my doubts that they win it whomever they face. A lot of coaches won't do what he is doing because of the long term ramifications. The only place it will ever work is somewhere like LSU where there is a lot of local pressure to go there and play even if it costs you millions. Which is what happened under Bertman.

Dalbac has third base as a back-up plan if he doesn't pitch. Bannister's career is likely done.

There could have been another school in the CWS we shoulda beat but didn't. Don't assume Arizona cost us anything. All they cost us was a CWS berth.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Sure, they beat us fair and square but what pissed me off is we didn't play our A game and they took advantage of us not playing up to our abilities. If we just play average or a little above average and are able to do anything at the plate we easily win that series. It sucks we didn't show up when we needed to but if you look at our history that is what we do. 1989 comes to mind and I know that team would have won a national championship. It sucks that two of our most talented teams didn't even make it to the CWS.

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I'll say this- I liked Johnson as a pitching coach but he was very average at managing our bullpen the whole damn year. Leaving a sidearmer like Rigby to face a LH power hitter like he did was beyond risky- and we got burned. And then he brought in Daniel Brown to only face one guy after that whom he walked but let's let Humphreys walk everyone on the planet? WTF?

We had our shot, and we blew it.

I still have great hopes for the future of this program. We have good coaching, great recruiting, and an exceptional college baseball venue. WTH else can you ask for?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'll say this- I liked Johnson as a pitching coach but he was very average at managing our bullpen the whole damn year. Leaving a sidearmer like Rigby to face a LH power hitter like he did was beyond risky- and we got burned. And then he brought in Daniel Brown to only face one guy after that whom he walked but let's let Humphreys walk everyone on the planet? WTF?

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I agree and a lot of that had to do with the fact he never really knew the limits of what our pitching staff could do because he wasn't here long enough to understand the nuances of the staff. He helped them develop but as far as managing that requires at least a year and not coming in mid-year. Gary Henderson will blow him away as far as understanding strengths and weaknesses of our players as well as understanding what Cohen wants. I think our pitchers will be outstanding next year simply because we have a ton of talent and a pitching coach that will figure out roles quickly and understand the strengths and weaknesses of the staff. Johnson never grasped that part.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

I agree and a lot of that had to do with the fact he never really knew the limits of what our pitching staff could do because he wasn't here long enough to understand the nuances of the staff. He helped them develop but as far as managing that requires at least a year and not coming in mid-year. Gary Henderson will blow him away as far as understanding strengths and weaknesses of our players as well as understanding what Cohen wants. I think our pitchers will be outstanding next year simply because we have a ton of talent and a pitching coach that will figure out roles quickly and understand the strengths and weaknesses of the staff. Johnson never grasped that part.

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Left hand hitters hitting right hand sidearmers well is bullpen management 101. At the very least go out and give Rigby a mound visit and tell him to NOT MISS DOWN AND IN TO A LEFT HAND HITTER. Same shit at LSU when they hit a grand slam off of Rigby too- fortunately we scored 9 runs that day and only allowed 8.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

If I'm going to be eliminated by someone I would much rather it be by someone that wins the whole thing or goes deep as opposed to someone that goes two and bar-b-que.

That said I'd rather win the whole damn thing.

But I think winning is a process in baseball and for some reason no matter what level it is, the teams with experience usually end up winning the whole thing. That's the worst part about us not making it to Omaha IMO because now Mangum, Marrero, Pilkington and etc. could have used the experience of going to help us win later. Hopefully we at least get that experience the next two years.

We had never been to Omaha until 1971 as a program and we really haven't started going once every 4-5 years until Polk came along and did it starting in 1979.- so we're still relatively new compared to a program like USC, Texas, or even Arizona. We didn't become a regular at hosting regionals until the 1980's and even then we lost most of those regionals until the 1990's where we have won almost all of our regionals at home since 1997 and we're 1 out of 2 in SR at home since then as well. So, the past 20 years or so we have just now gotten to the point where if we host a regional we're likely winning it.

For most of Polk's tenure we just didn't have the pitching depth we needed to win the whole thing- which I think in part influenced his decision to keep Morgan in the game in 1985 after getting hit with that line drive. We have that kind of depth now but now the past few times we have been in a big game situation our hitters have locked up and tried to do too much and it resulted in a lot of bad AB's and weak fly balls this year in the SR and in the Finals in 2013. So, to me it's just a matter of our guys relaxing and just playing the game like they have and not trying to do too much. If they do that, then everything else takes care of itself.

And in 2013 Brandon Woodruff being hurt really KILLED us in the finals as well. If we had been able to start him along with Graveman we don't have to start Pollorena.

I think our group of freshmen this year are going to have a chance to make some noise in Omaha as well. Pilkington is turning some heads in the Cape. We've seen what Mangum can do and he is a special player who is only going to get better. Marrero was nominated for the Johnny Bench Award as a freshman- and he's only going to get better as well. LA is showing some power as well and Stovall is a good player. Breaux and Small are going to be elite starting pitchers as well and Padgett is getting better in the Cape. Very excited about our rising sophomores- we just need to hope the JUCO's coming in supplement the power hitters we have lost to the draft over the years.

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Todd you nailed it again! Thats how baseball works. Great post!

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Wouldn't surprise me if they pitched Bannister on Monday since according to them the guy only pitched 30 pitches on Friday, lol. I guess they will wait until the arm goes snap until they figure out pitching a pitcher as much as they do is not a good idea. I am pulling for Coastal or TCU to win the thing. Getting just to the championship series is not worth these kids' futures.

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Lol he only threw 30 pitches cuz he left with an injury. I guess they're gonna throw him til his arm literally falls off.

Blah blah blah... They are a good team with a good coach. They got hot at the right time and the are going to the national championship. Don't be bitter bc they beat us.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And in 2013 Brandon Woodruff being hurt really KILLED us in the finals as well. If we had been able to start him along with Graveman we don't have to start

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Woodruff wasn't even a factor in 2013, at all. Blaming him is like blaming Stratton for not coming back.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Woodruff wasn't even a factor in 2013, at all. Blaming him is like blaming Stratton for not coming back.

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Woodruff was a guy that literally gave us no years and bolted his junior year. Similar to Evan Mitchell. Heck, if Woodruff and Evan Mitchell developed into starters and lived up to their potential, we probably do win the 2013 World Series pretty easily.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Woodruff wasn't even a factor in 2013, at all. Blaming him is like blaming Stratton for not coming back.

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I'm not blaming anything on Woodruff. I'm blaming his arm injury which no one had any control over. He had the talent to be a SEC ace and is probably going to pitch in MLB the next year or two. It was a huge blow for us at the time.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully

Woodruff was a guy that literally gave us no years and bolted his junior year. Similar to Evan Mitchell. Heck, if Woodruff and Evan Mitchell developed into starters and lived up to their potential, we probably do win the 2013 World Series pretty easily.

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Woodruff started and outdueled Tyler Beede in the 2012 SEC Tournament Championship Game. He gave us that at least.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Woodruff started and outdueled Tyler Beede in the 2012 SEC Tournament Championship Game. He gave us that at least.

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Yeah, I do recall that so he gave us one game.