We are lacking in several areas.....

After having a 5-1 lead we piss it away and end the game in a tie due to a curfew. Ties are BS in baseball but whatever.

Us not being on TV Friday and today and not being at home allowed me to watch a few other games. We are lacking in several areas, consistent relief pitching, timely hitting, obviously we are lacking on the defensive side a little too or Collins wouldn't be at 3rd base. We also lack on the coaching side or we would see more Cody Brown and a few others, we would establish a consistent lineup..........

That being said that isn't our biggest miss. We lack intensity, we lack aggressiveness, we lack the right attitude. Watch an LSU game and watch their attitude, their approach at the plate. There is a difference in the way the players go about the game. We lack gritty, dirty, lay it all on the line, refuse to lose players like Pirtle or Frazier. I don't believe it is a difference in talent, it is a difference in focus and desire. LSU is just an example but you can see it in their eyes, you can see it in the way they enter the batters box, you can see it in the way a bat doesn't sit on their shoulder long. They are focus, aggressive and refuse to lose. Of course they will lose some games but why don't we have it and where do we get it?

I find Mainieri to be a whiny little bitch so I have a hard time believing it starts there but maybe he just stays out of the way. I don't know if it is the players that step up and lead the others or where it comes from but even their dugout is different. We look like we are watching a Tball game with nothing on the line, they look like they would give anything to be in the game, that if they just got one swing they could make it count. We look like we are waiting for the game to end and hoping someone will take us to get ice cream after the game.

It is a difference in attitude. We don't have that grit, that refuse to lose attitude and we will continue to struggle until someone steps up and leads this team. Now I am going back to drinking.

I think what you just described is indicative of the current junior class on campus. They seem soft. I think the current freshmen are wired differently though, much tougher. I may be wrong. Either way, we still have a chance to be pretty damn good.

I agree and have been saying the same thing. I think it has to do with Cohen meddling and not just letting the guys play. That edge and grit comes with being confident and when you're always worried about what coach is gonna do or if your even gonna play that day it is hard to get in the zone. My high school coach was a lot like that. He never knew when to let us just play, always overthought everything and we couldn't get settled in. With the level of talent we have, Cohen needs to pick the best ones and roll them out there and just tell them to play ball. Team won't change until Cohen does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by weblow

After having a 5-1 lead we piss it away and end the game in a tie due to a curfew. Ties are BS in baseball but whatever.

Us not being on TV Friday and today and not being at home allowed me to watch a few other games. We are lacking in several areas, consistent relief pitching, timely hitting, obviously we are lacking on the defensive side a little too or Collins wouldn't be at 3rd base. We also lack on the coaching side or we would see more Cody Brown and a few others, we would establish a consistent lineup..........

That being said that isn't our biggest miss. We lack intensity, we lack aggressiveness, we lack the right attitude. Watch an LSU game and watch their attitude, their approach at the plate. There is a difference in the way the players go about the game. We lack gritty, dirty, lay it all on the line, refuse to lose players like Pirtle or Frazier. I don't believe it is a difference in talent, it is a difference in focus and desire. LSU is just an example but you can see it in their eyes, you can see it in the way they enter the batters box, you can see it in the way a bat doesn't sit on their shoulder long. They are focus, aggressive and refuse to lose. Of course they will lose some games but why don't we have it and where do we get it?

I find Mainieri to be a whiny little bitch so I have a hard time believing it starts there but maybe he just stays out of the way. I don't know if it is the players that step up and lead the others or where it comes from but even their dugout is different. We look like we are watching a Tball game with nothing on the line, they look like they would give anything to be in the game, that if they just got one swing they could make it count. We look like we are waiting for the game to end and hoping someone will take us to get ice cream after the game.

It is a difference in attitude. We don't have that grit, that refuse to lose attitude and we will continue to struggle until someone steps up and leads this team. Now I am going back to drinking.

---

It is because our kids are being taught that the sport is a passionless exercise in mathematical equation solving. They are being taught that you don't need talent, you don't need guts, you don't ever take initiative, you don't need a killer instinct, you don't have to be determined, and that there's nothing you can do as an individual to make a difference in the outcome. All you have to do is make the right (non-stop) adjustments according to formulas, percentages, and trends. Of course, you should never take into account that the successful side of said trends and percentages is probably due to somebody's talent, guts, initiative, determination, and killer instinct in those situations. It's BS, and they are buying into it or have been placed into submission and/or resignation to it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BulldogBear

It is because our kids are being taught that the sport is a passionless exercise in mathematical equation solving. They are being taught that you don't need talent, you don't need guts, you don't ever take initiative, you don't need a killer instinct, you don't have to be determined, and that there's nothing you can do as an individual to make a difference in the outcome. All you have to do is make the right (non-stop) adjustments according to formulas, percentages, and trends. Of course, you should never take into account that the successful side of said trends and percentages is probably due to somebody's talent, guts, initiative, determination, and killer instinct in those situations. It's BS, and they are buying into it or have been placed into submission and/or resignation to it.

---

Yeah this is all pretty much bullshit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

Yeah this is all pretty much bullshit.

---

I hope you're right about the current freshmen and Cohen will get out of the way. But we know he won't.

Our pitching staff has talent
We have older guys with talent- Brown, Robson, Rooker, Collins, etc
We have a bonafied top-notch 3 hole hitter
We have some talented Freshman

No Mora Excuses- get it done

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

I think what you just described is indicative of the current junior class on campus. They seem soft. I think the current freshmen are wired differently though, much tougher. I may be wrong. Either way, we still have a chance to be pretty damn good.

---

Painfully agree

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreCowbell

I agree and have been saying the same thing. I think it has to do with Cohen meddling and not just letting the guys play. That edge and grit comes with being confident and when you're always worried about what coach is gonna do or if your even gonna play that day it is hard to get in the zone. My high school coach was a lot like that. He never knew when to let us just play, always overthought everything and we couldn't get settled in. With the level of talent we have, Cohen needs to pick the best ones and roll them out there and just tell them to play ball. Team won't change until Cohen does.

---

Maybe its just MSU baseball. We essentially had the same problem under Ron "that's baseball" Polk. No real toughness or grit then either for the most part. There were years we had much superior talent to most anyone else in the SEC back in those days but still never won many championships and never got as far in the CWS as we have under Cohen.

All me to summarize....


We aren't very good. Coaching to players.

I agree.

Z

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coach34

No Mora Excuses- get it done

---

We are 8 years in with one outstanding run. He makes way too much money for that kind of production. So, to echo Coach's sentiment, this year is it. Put us in the regionals and perform admirably, host or not, or pack your bags for a JC job somewhere.

2 seed at a non-National seed is the worst we should tolerate.

Top 24 team or curtains for Cohen. Can't afford to waste this young talent with the meddler.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Painfully agree

---

Yep

I disagree that Gavin is soft. I cant speak for his leadership but I have been on the field to see him. The kid wants to be great more so than any player I have seen. He tries so freaking hard that you feel like hes going to make a mistake cause hes trying so hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Painfully agree

---

Painfully agree as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by maroonmania

Maybe its just MSU baseball. We essentially had the same problem under Ron "that's baseball" Polk. No real toughness or grit then either for the most part. There were years we had much superior talent to most anyone else in the SEC back in those days but still never won many championships and never got as far in the CWS as we have under Cohen.

---

I think that's a good observation. There is talent, and there are guys that may not have a lot of God given athleticism that are just tough as hell and somehow will themselves to reaching their max potential. Ideally you want a combination of both- like Will Clark, Graveman, Frazier, Easley, etc. But it's just hard to find that.

And if I had to pick one- give me toughness over guys that are just "talented" with a lot of "potential". It's almost impossible to get someone that has great talent and isn't mentally tough to be mentally tough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by State82

Z

We are 8 years in with one outstanding run. He makes way too much money for that kind of production. So, to echo Coach's sentiment, this year is it. Put us in the regionals and perform admirably, host or not, or pack your bags for a JC job somewhere.

---

Did you forget about 2011 and 2012? We made a SR and were about six outs or whatever from Omaha, and then we won the SEC Tournament in 2012. It's not like we had seven losing seasons and one where we had a magical season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

Did you forget about 2011 and 2012? We made a SR and were about six outs or whatever from Omaha, and then we won the SEC Tournament in 2012. It's not like we had seven losing seasons and one where we had a magical season.

---

THIS! Sometimes we are shortsighted as a fan base.

Here is where we are:

2013- Played for the NC
2014- 2 seed-blew a Regional from the Winners Bracket
2015- Total shit year
2016- Team that is talented enough to be in the top 32 come Regional time

No Mora Excuses
We are in Year 8- we've been good enough to host once
20% of our fanbase has never been on board with Cohen because of Polk
We are building a baseball Mecca
Big Boosters are withdrawing donations for said stadium because of our coach and where the program is

He has to get it done this year- no choice. Support the hell out of the team, go to games, give them all the help we can- and see where we end up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's not like we had seven losing seasons and one where we had a magical season.

---

You're right and I don't mean to imply that. What I am saying is that our progression, as a program, is not where it should be in year eight. One host in his tenure to this point is not acceptable for a program that puts as much emphasis on the sport as we do. We should at least be in the discussion as a host site on a fairly regular basis. And we should never, ever even be close to missing the SEC tourney. And he has that on his resume also.

If we want grit, desire, passion, and all those other things, we should hire Will Clark. Dude was cold blooded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by State82

You're right and I don't mean to imply that. What I am saying is that our progression, as a program, is not where it should be in year eight. One host in his tenure to this point is not acceptable for a program that puts as much emphasis on the sport as we do. We should at least be in the discussion as a host site on a fairly regular basis. And we should never, ever even be close to missing the SEC tourney. And he has that on his resume also.

---

I think its really the last 2 years that have brought us to this point. I think the first 5 years or so that led up to the CWS run was more than understandable. And I mean the slow progression from building up the mess left by Polk all the way to hosting a regional and having a CWS runner up position in 2013 was all well and good. I believe most of us at that point thought the program was established and we would have strong teams year after year after that like most upper tier programs do. That was not the case though as the next year a step back in BARELY making a 2 seed where we were shipped off to ULL and losing and then last year was a complete disaster. So the last 2 years have really gotten us off track for whatever reason but we are where we are. 2 things though that have been constant under Cohen though is a lack of consistent starting pitching and an offense that scores great against the sisters of the poor but struggles to do anything against quality teams. And I know that will always be the case to some degree but you have to score some to win any game just like wasting a tremendous outing the other night by Dakota Hudson because we couldn't do anything for 8 innings. Tied yesterday because the offense quit after the 3rd inning. And again Sexton and Brown really didn't give us what we needed out of our starters.

If we don't make the NCAA tournament this season Cohen should ABSOLUTELY be gone.
That would mean he had missed the tournament 4 times in 8 years which is unfathomable. We should be HOSTING at a 50% clip, not missing the damn tournament.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickiedawg

If we don't make the NCAA tournament this season Cohen should ABSOLUTELY be gone.
That would mean he had missed the tournament 4 times in 8 years which is unfathomable. We should be HOSTING at a 50% clip, not missing the damn tournament.

---

So, you expect Cohen to do something at MSU at a 50% clip, that was only done at a 20% clip before he arrived (we hosted in 2000 and 2003)? I'm talking since 1999, when the current format went into effect. If you go back farther, I bet that rate goes down until you get into the early early 90s.

I'm not saying I don't want to host 50% of the time (or more). I'm simply pointing out that to do so would be a big improvement over what has become the norm at MSU.

The fact is that (if he misses the tournament this year) he will be doing something at a 50% clip that was only done at a 20 percent clip before he got here.

Making the NCAAs is a damn low bar in baseball. I'd be pretty shocked if this team didn't do it but will be at the front of the fire Cohen train if we don't.

I think the pitching will take care of business. The position players who have the fire in their gut and should be in the lineup every game are Cody Brown, Robson, Marerro, and obviously, Kruger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by state66

I disagree that Gavin is soft. I cant speak for his leadership but I have been on the field to see him. The kid wants to be great more so than any player I have seen. He tries so freaking hard that you feel like hes going to make a mistake cause hes trying so hard.

---

Total cancer and waste of a spot on the roster!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dickiedawg

The fact is that (if he misses the tournament this year) he will be doing something at a 50% clip that was only done at a 20 percent clip before he got here.

Making the NCAAs is a damn low bar in baseball. I'd be pretty shocked if this team didn't do it but will be at the front of the fire Cohen train if we don't.

---

So....what's your metric? Hosting 50% of the time or making a regional 80% of the time? Can't change the narrative.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Backwoodsdawg

Total cancer and waste of a spot on the roster!

---

Wow... I won't doubt you bc you watched a heck of a lot more than I did in the preseason, but that's a hard accusation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Wow... I won't doubt you bc you watched a heck of a lot more than I did in the preseason, but that's a hard accusation

---

This is why you have to take opinions on a message board with a grain of salt.

Backwoodsdawg on Collins: Total cancer and waste of a spot on the roster!

state66 on Collins: I disagree that Gavin is soft. I cant speak for his leadership but I have been on the field to see him. The kid wants to be great more so than any player I have seen. He tries so freaking hard that you feel like he's going to make a mistake cause he's trying so hard.

Nobody really knows the dynamics of a team that are not part of the team BUT the fact that Collins is apparently not taking care of business off the field and getting suspended is a concern.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Wow... I won't doubt you bc you watched a heck of a lot more than I did in the preseason, but that's a hard accusation

---

Yeah that is probably a little harsh. He is a kid and that was wrong to say it like that! A nicer way to say it I guess is results matter and there are other kids that can help this team in the long run that have shown they can and don't bring the negativity to the field like some others. Some kids struggle to embrace their abilities and our coaches sometimes jam them down our throats weather they deserve it or not. I've seen a lot of baseball in my life and I know who players feed off of and are willing to put it all on the line for and I've seen ones that don't have that factor about them. We have plenty on this team that feed off of each other in a positive winning way then we have some that no matter how hard they try they just don't have the ability to be that guy. In order to win at this game you have to have ALL of those guys playing. This is just my opinion about the game and it could be right to some and wrong to some but its just how I feel. I'm just a dumb old man who loves to see the guy that RESPECTS the game play!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

So, you expect Cohen to do something at MSU at a 50% clip, that was only done at a 20% clip before he arrived (we hosted in 2000 and 2003)? I'm talking since 1999, when the current format went into effect. If you go back farther, I bet that rate goes down until you get into the early early 90s.

I'm not saying I don't want to host 50% of the time (or more). I'm simply pointing out that to do so would be a big improvement over what has become the norm at MSU.

---

People have to keep in mind that we hosted a lot of those regionals pre-2000 simply because of the size of the stadium and the guaranteed payday for the NCAA. Prior to 88, we hosted 4 times (79, 84, 85, 87 - i can't find a seed listing). We were the #2 or higher seed in 88, 89, 90, 92, & 97. The only reason we got those was $$. Period.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Backwoodsdawg

Yeah that is probably a little harsh. He is a kid and that was wrong to say it like that! A nicer way to say it I guess is results matter and there are other kids that can help this team in the long run that have shown they can and don't bring the negativity to the field like some others. Some kids struggle to embrace their abilities and our coaches sometimes jam them down our throats weather they deserve it or not. I've seen a lot of baseball in my life and I know who players feed off of and are willing to put it all on the line for and I've seen ones that don't have that factor about them. We have plenty on this team that feed off of each other in a positive winning way then we have some that no matter how hard they try they just don't have the ability to be that guy. In order to win at this game you have to have ALL of those guys playing. This is just my opinion about the game and it could be right to some and wrong to some but its just how I feel. I'm just a dumb old man who loves to see the guy that RESPECTS the game play!

---

I feel you. I get pissed off when I see any player disrespecting the game. They're very fortunate to be able to play baseball at a high level to start with, and they shouldn't take that for granted whether it's MLB, SEC, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

People have to keep in mind that we hosted a lot of those regionals pre-2000 simply because of the size of the stadium and the guaranteed payday for the NCAA. Prior to 88, we hosted 4 times (79, 84, 85, 87 - i can't find a seed listing). We were the #2 or higher seed in 88, 89, 90, 92, & 97. The only reason we got those was $$. Period.

---

Exactly, MSU fans got spoiled back in the day because we hosted a lot strictly due to financial reasons when we had not really earned the right. You can add '87 to the list where we got to host in a year that we only made the NCAAs because of winning the SEC tournament. 85 we were definitely a 1 seed, 84 I think North Carolina was the 1 seed and we were the 2 seed if memory serves. 79 I know little about.