Question for recruitniks...

First off, let me preface by saying I trust Mullen & Co on the recruiting. They have done good enough to make our program relevant on a National level & to win 19 games in two years. So this thread is NOT about Mullen & whether he's doing a good job.

My question is, what am I missing with guys like Dylan Bradley and Lorenzo Dantzler? We seem to take 2-3+ guys every year that are either raw/undersized/tweeners, etc. Bradley & Dantzler seem(ed) to be very solid while also fitting that undersized/tweener mold, BUT the difference is these two could give you an excellent shot at landing the top 2 players in the state, 2 of the top players in the country. Yet, we nor Ole Miss offered these guys. I have very little doubt that Simmons would be a lock if Bradley was a Dawg, & Dantzler & AJ are clearly good friends and having two teammates commit to State would likely be very positive in Brown's recruitment.

Now again, we could still get both Brown & Simmons...I think and hope we do. But, I guess I just seem to have trouble seeing the downfall in taking guys like Bradley & Dantzler that would help those efforts, while also giving you two very good players in the process.

And this goes for all SEC schools recruiting Brown & Simmons, not just us. But with us wanting to step up recruiting, I thought taking those two made a lot of sense. In fact, myself & many others on this board could tell that Bradley was a player...& he is USM's best defensive player, & would be in line for major PT on our DL next year had we signed him you'd think.

So don't make this a thread that gets locked, but help me understand why State nor anyone else took a flyer on those two very solid prospects in hopes to gain an advantage?

No guarantee in two for ones, spots are very limited I guess.

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Originally Posted by EAVdog

No guarantee in two for ones, spots are very limited I guess.

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I understand that & agree, but what I'm saying is...there's a few raw guys we have committed or signed last year that were no better or had no higher upside than Bradley/Dantzler IMO. So considering that, I just don't get it. I understand Bama not doing it, but we don't sign a class full of 4 & 5 stars every year....so it seems like if you're going to take a project 3-star, take a project 3-star with built in recruiting advantages.

nt

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

I understand that & agree, but what I'm saying is...there's a few raw guys we have committed or signed last year that were no better or had no higher upside than Bradley/Dantzler IMO. So considering that, I just don't get it. I understand Bama not doing it, but we don't sign a class full of 4 & 5 stars every year....so it seems like if you're going to take a project 3-star, take a project 3-star with built in recruiting advantages.

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We blew it on Bradley. I don't see it on Dantzler.

No one knew Simmons would turn into who he was when Bradley was going through his recruitment. You can't offer someone in the hopes of his cousin, who was 14-15 at the time, grows into a 5*

It was 2013 and couldn't take many DL because we signed so many the year before. Numbers and what Wilson/Turner wanted made them go with Simpson who before his injury had just got invited to the MS-AL all star game and looked to have been another late ratings riser. He had already committed and we honored it. There may be someone from that class that we NOW saying should have been dropped for Bradley but it wasn't near as obvious back then. Bradley was discussed a good bit back then. Some were saying we should take him back then. I think the coaches really debated it pretty hard. IYOK or someone else may know how close they were in actually giving him a scholly

We should have taken Bradley regardless of Simmons.

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Originally Posted by Big4Dawg

No one knew Simmons would turn into who he was when Bradley was going through his recruitment. You can't offer someone in the hopes of his cousin, who was 14-15 at the time, grows into a 5*

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Bradley is his brother.

We signed 23 guys in 2013, two of which Donald Gray & Cord Sanberg, didn't make it to campus.

Dylan Bradley was an 82 rated, 6'1" 245 lbs DT.

Hindsight is usually 20/20, but evaluation is very difficult. Just as you see late drafted players in the NFL & MLB succeed and ask, "how did that guy not go higher", we often times lose perspective on & forget how many other players were similar in the draft or recruiting process to that player & they did not pan out.

It certainly looks like we should have offered Bradley, but the truth is that, AT THE TIME, he was a marginal prospect that was probably very similar to 10 other guys who have not panned out or had a highly recruited brother.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

It certainly looks like we should have offered Bradley, but the truth is that, AT THE TIME, he was a marginal prospect that was probably very similar to 10 other guys who have not panned out or had a highly recruited brother.

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BS. Bradley was a player and everyone knew it at the time. There was about as significant an outcry as there has been for any in-state player we didn't take for Bradley. We took 2 DL in the class of 2013 -- Chris Jones and Trent Simpson. Simpson was beyond a project -- and Jones was always going to be a 3 year guy. So, in year 4 -- there's a class at one of the most important position groups -- TOTALLY empty.

I'm not one that second guesses everything -- but not taking Dylan Bradley was a total **** up.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

We signed 23 guys in 2013, two of which Donald Gray & Cord Sanberg, didn't make it to campus.

Dylan Bradley was an 82 rated, 6'1" 245 lbs DT.

Hindsight is usually 20/20, but evaluation is very difficult. Just as you see late drafted players in the NFL & MLB succeed and ask, "how did that guy not go higher", we often times lose perspective on & forget how many other players were similar in the draft or recruiting process to that player & they did not pan out.

It certainly looks like we should have offered Bradley, but the truth is that, AT THE TIME, he was a marginal prospect that was probably very similar to 10 other guys who have not panned out or had a highly recruited brother.

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Not really hindsight on this one. A lot of posters including Paul Jones thought Dylan should have gotten an offer.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

We should have taken Bradley regardless of Simmons.

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Exactly, just a royal screwup.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Not really hindsight on this one. A lot of posters including Paul Jones thought Dylan should have gotten an offer.

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Paul also said he understood how tight positions were and it was hard to see who you drop for him. We dropped Ulric Jones in that class already and still didn't add a DL because of other needs. We had to sign 2 QB's because of the Cord situation. It was tight on numbers. I believe Paul or maybe it was another site said they couldn't see dropping Simpson for Bradley either. Simpson was close to being rated much higher and was still up graded with a torn ACL. No injury and he played in the All star classic the way he had been before the injury, he had a slight chance of getting an Auburn offer in the end. It didn't happen of course because of the ACL. So then the question is, who AT THE TIME could we drop. We see it now but at the time positions was tight. Especially at DL when we signed, what? 6-7 the year before. And we can't ever assume who is a 3 year guy when we sign them. Everybody was convinced Quay and James were 3 year guys the year before. They were right on Quay but only because everybody was totally wrong in what he would contribute. I liked Bradley, a lot of people liked Bradley, he was very undersized though and that is not a normal Turner DL. It is what it is. Bear was rated lower than Simpson that year.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Paul also said he understood how tight positions were and it was hard to see who you drop for him. We dropped Ulric Jones in that class already and still didn't add a DL because of other needs. We had to sign 2 QB's because of the Cord situation. It was tight on numbers. I believe Paul or maybe it was another site said they couldn't see dropping Simpson for Bradley either. Simpson was close to being rated much higher and was still up graded with a torn ACL. No injury and he played in the All star classic the way he had been before the injury, he had a slight chance of getting an Auburn offer in the end. It didn't happen of course because of the ACL. So then the question is, who AT THE TIME could we drop. We see it now but at the time positions was tight. Especially at DL when we signed, what? 6-7 the year before. And we can't ever assume who is a 3 year guy when we sign them. Everybody was convinced Quay and James were 3 year guys the year before. They were right on Quay but only because everybody was totally wrong in what he would contribute. I liked Bradley, a lot of people liked Bradley, he was very undersized though and that is not a normal Turner DL. It is what it is. Bear was rated lower than Simpson that year.

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Paul always defends the staff no matter what. It has been shown that we had spots in that class.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Paul always defends the staff no matter what. It has been shown that we had spots in that class.

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Where? Not now, but at the time where would we have made a spot? We dropped a DL and didn't add a DL. We needed DB's worse. And had to add a QB because we didn't know for sure what Cord was going to do.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

We should have taken Bradley regardless of Simmons.

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No doubt about this whatsoever. Monumental screw-up.

Dylan was unblock able. he destroyed Starkville, Columbus, West Point. The absolutely stupidest move we have made. He has started for the Buzzards every game . Plus we didn't sign a Noxubee linebacker off the same teamwho this year was defensive player of the year in the Swac.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Paul always defends the staff no matter what. It has been shown that we had spots in that class.

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Anyone that tells you Simpson was desired by as many programs as Bradley is just being a homer. Maybe our staff wanted Simpson more but that wasn't the general case. Now neither had an SEC offer outside of MSU but many more non-SEC programs wanted Bradley. I remember when we committed Simpson everyone on MSU boards was saying WHO?

And to add, Ulric Jones was a slightly more desired prospect but everyone knew he had grade problems. Bradley had no such baggage. There are times you just have to say your own coaching staffed screwed up. Not offering Bradley is one of those times.

Dylan Bradley was a player but he's severely undersized.. The thing that you are all overlooking is he had very significant injuries every year in high school.. He tore up his shoulder among other things.. There was major concern on whether or not he could stay put together..

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Paul also said he understood how tight positions were and it was hard to see who you drop for him. We dropped Ulric Jones in that class already and still didn't add a DL because of other needs. We had to sign 2 QB's because of the Cord situation. It was tight on numbers. I believe Paul or maybe it was another site said they couldn't see dropping Simpson for Bradley either. Simpson was close to being rated much higher and was still up graded with a torn ACL. No injury and he played in the All star classic the way he had been before the injury, he had a slight chance of getting an Auburn offer in the end. It didn't happen of course because of the ACL. So then the question is, who AT THE TIME could we drop. We see it now but at the time positions was tight. Especially at DL when we signed, what? 6-7 the year before. And we can't ever assume who is a 3 year guy when we sign them. Everybody was convinced Quay and James were 3 year guys the year before. They were right on Quay but only because everybody was totally wrong in what he would contribute. I liked Bradley, a lot of people liked Bradley, he was very undersized though and that is not a normal Turner DL. It is what it is. Bear was rated lower than Simpson that year.

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We signed a lot of questionable players in that class over Bradley. A lot. We took guys like BJ Hammond and Artimus Samuel together, neither was highly rated and neither panned out. Jeremy Chappelle and Shelby Christy, same thing. Even when you look at a guy like Jake Thomas who was technically a 4 star (but had no other legit SEC offers), I think most would have been OK with taking Bradley over him. None of those guys mentioned above were ever thought to be high ceiling type guys even at the time, yet we took all of them.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

We signed a lot of questionable players in that class over Bradley. A lot. We took guys like BJ Hammond and Artimus Samuel together, neither was highly rated and neither panned out. Jeremy Chappelle and Shelby Christy, same thing. Even when you look at a guy like Jake Thomas who was technically a 4 star (but had no other legit SEC offers), I think most would have been OK with taking Bradley over him. None of those guys mentioned above were ever thought to be high ceiling type guys even at the time, yet we took all of them.

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Bradley was thought of being a high ceiling guy either. Played above his physicals. But I'm also meaning at the time with a small class and we were having to wait on signing day decisions on the Alexander brothers, who the coaches thought we had a legitimate shot at getting. Plus we had the 4* DT coming in after signing day, who we also thought we were in great shape with IF Georgia didn't offer. They ended up bringing him in 2 weeks after signing day and did give him an offer. Those were misses that we had to keep open spots for though. I liked Bradley as well but we dropped Jones that year, grades, and Austin the WR because of spots. And people at the time would have absolutely melted if we had dropped Thomas, Hammond or Christy for Bradley. Not now but back then they would have. It would have been a very questionable descision. Samuel played his first season and looked good for a big TE. Ratings or not. You could have classed Bear as being a more legitimate drop candidate back then from what the fans knew. Very raw, upside but nobody saw him coming in and beating out all the other receivers that year. Nobody was predicting that until we saw him at fall camp. Picking Thomas to drop is an after the fact thought not BACK in 2013.

Thomas was a guy who our staff liked OK but weren't willing to hold a spot for even through the summer, much less until signing day. He was given more or less an ultimatum to commit shortly after Big Dawg Camp or have his offer pulled if he continued to wait. This fact was well publicized on all the MSU recruiting sites. Fortunately for him, he pulled the trigger when he did and secured his spot.

Now, had he been dropped for Bradley, you are correct that a lot of folks who only follow recruiting at the surface level would have seen a 4-star dropped for a 2-star and had an aneurysm. But most anyone who follows our recruiting closely (including many posters on here) would not have batted an eyelash if it happened.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

Thomas was a guy who our staff liked OK but weren't willing to hold a spot for even through the summer, much less until signing day. He was given more or less an ultimatum to commit shortly after Big Dawg Camp or have his offer pulled if he continued to wait. This fact was well publicized on all the MSU recruiting sites. Fortunately for him, he pulled the trigger when he did and secured his spot.

Now, had he been dropped for Bradley, you are correct that a lot of folks who only follow recruiting at the surface level would have seen a 4-star dropped for a 2-star and had an aneurysm. But most anyone who follows our recruiting closely (including many posters on here) would not have batted an eyelash if it happened.

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I don't disagree with that mostly. I think there would have been some who would have questioned it who follow recruiting. But your right, many were thinking Thomas had peaked. I wasn't sold either. But I do understand it was a close call and correct me but wasn't the staff debating bringing him in the last weekend but some were really afraid that he just couldn't sustain in the SEC? He would have been another undersized high school overachiever that would never make it in the SEC. With injury history. And we had several lines out there for highly rated players that would absolutely eliminated a spot for him if they had picked us. It was a close call.

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Originally Posted by HSVDawg

Thomas was a guy who our staff liked OK but weren't willing to hold a spot for even through the summer, much less until signing day. He was given more or less an ultimatum to commit shortly after Big Dawg Camp or have his offer pulled if he continued to wait. This fact was well publicized on all the MSU recruiting sites. Fortunately for him, he pulled the trigger when he did and secured his spot.

Now, had he been dropped for Bradley, you are correct that a lot of folks who only follow recruiting at the surface level would have seen a 4-star dropped for a 2-star and had an aneurysm. But most anyone who follows our recruiting closely (including many posters on here) would not have batted an eyelash if it happened.

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We actually came in and offered Bradley a scholarship the night before signing day, but it was too late.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

We actually came in and offered Bradley a scholarship the night before signing day, but it was too late.

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Wow, really?

I don't understand how it was too late?
Surely our staff had been keeping him warm & he'd rather go to MSU over USM