You guys calling for Mullen to leave or quit have completely lost perspective

This isn't even about where we came from anymore. This is about freaking common sense. We are pissed about 8-4 people. Do you not see that??? How can we as MSU be arrogant enough to be pissed about 8-4 and want that coach gone? This isn't a we are lil ole MSU post. 8-4 is a pretty solid season and I would hope by now we had a huge transition on the OL after losing 3 seniors that we just couldn't overcome. I understand we are 1-3 against Freeze. I'm pissed about that too. I understand we haven't beaten as many top tier teams as we wanted. But for you guys to solely blame Mullen is shortsighted and ridiculous. We need staff changes 100% and we currently don't have the funding in order to bring better staff in. That's athletic department's fault right now and they need to fix that. Mullen needs to understand we HAVE to upgrade our staff, but we have to be willing to have the funds available to go get people we want. If he isn't willing to make those changes, THEN I'm ok with him going. I get relationships and friends and things like that, but if there is an opportunity to upgrade our staff significantly, then that needs to happen. But for you all to sit here and say he needs to go and say Hud or Skip Holtz or Herman (who has one full year of HC under his belt) are for sure better coaches is stupid. That's a pretty average list if we are being completely honest. If we are going to can Mullen or tell him the door is there and go, you better have some tangible evidence that there are options that would take our job today that are for sure better than Mullen and those three for sure don't meet those requirements.

I don't think we can guarantee that because no matter what some of you say, Mullen is a Top 25 head coach. So let's get some objectivity back people. Step back from the ledge and let's see how Mullen handles the next 12 months if he in fact is staying. A lot of us seem fairly confident we could upgrade from Mullen. Not sure some of you realize yet that you are pissed about an 8-4 season after a 10-3 season yet and just got done having Mullen completely build from the ground up one of the greatest QBs in the history of the SEC. Do we have areas for improvement? No doubt. Better recruiting and better staff for sure. But for those of you that think the pasture is always greener on the other side, you better be damn sure you are right if you go all in on Mullen leaving.

I've said this about 100 times between last night and now, might as well say it again: If UMiss can consistently beat Bama and LSU, then there is no reason we shouldn't be able to consistently beat Bama and LSU. If UMiss can recruit big time, then there is no reason we shouldn't be recruiting big time. Finally, there is no legit reason on earth they should be able to embarrass us, ESPECIALLY at home.

We can do much, much better.

Every single assistant should get a serious evaluation. Hughes should be safe due to his recruiting (he lands all our top guys) and Gonzales is very solid but all other coaches should be nervous. We need better recruiters.

Mullen's record has been propped up by Dak. There's no reason we shouldn't have won 10 games this year. Dan's whole attitude this year has been extremely concerning- that's what this is more about to me than anything. I think we should head things off at the pass before we're rebuilding again.

No it looks like you have lost perspective. The moment I realized Dan doesn't give a flying **** about this university is when he was laughing after the onside kick. You just got destroyed on your home field and you are ****ing laughing? Did you listen to his post game presser. I guaran ****ing tee he slept like a damn baby last night. My family and I have spent too much time, energy, and money to deserve that shit last night. Our university, fans, and players deserve more than a guy that thinks it's a ****ing joke to get your ass kicked by your rival at home. Do you think freeze would have been laughing if the tables were turned? Did you see Harbaugh laughing in Ann Arbor yesterday? **** no. We are at a crossroads and it's time for us to go left and Mullen go right. If you find what happened last night acceptable then maybe you need to pack your bags and leave with Mullen.

Exactly MetEd. If you could reverse the Ark and OM (still being 8-4 obviously), State fans would be very happy today.

It isnt all Mullen. Sure his recruiitng could be better along the lines. However the problem is they are doing things outside the lines in recruiting that we can't. (See Redmond situation for example). They are taking any and all transfers regardless of character. We don't pursue those guys. Their decision to go "all in" on recruiting a few years back is the difference right now. I don't see the recruiting situation changing unless we bring in someone willing to play the game and we are prepared to.pay the price for playing the game in a few years. We won't get away with it long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BossDawg

I've said this about 100 times between last night and now, might as well say it again: If UMiss can consistently beat Bama and LSU, then there is no reason we shouldn't. If UMiss can recruit big time, then there is no reason we shouldn't be. Finally, there is no legit reason on earth that they should be able to embarrass us and ESPECIALLY at home.

We can do much, much better.

---

We you recruit better than us, then you whip us. That's what OM did. Freeze has it set up beautifully at OM. We don't. That's one thing that has to change. But can we really compare the recruiting situation at MSU to OM and someone that helped establish their pipeline? OM has a recruiting advantage. They do the things necessary to get elite talent. But do we think bringing in another head coach like Herman is going to change that? Heck no. The recruiting thing is much broader than we are talking about and yes we have to get it fixed. OM has outrecruited us and it showed on the field last night. And while Mullen is partly responsible, let's not be surprised that OM is bringing in high caliber guys right now.

As far as assistants, I think Gonzales, Johnson, Hughes and Diaz are the only safe ones. Might add Turner to that group although I would be ok if he's let go and we go a new direction. We do need better recruiters and we need to shell out the money to get them.

As far as being propped up by Dak in response to Todd, I guess Urban and Mullen were propped up by Alex Smith, Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, and his QBs at OSU???? Part of being good is that you develop talent at the most important position on the field. Dan does that and he's known for it and he did it again here at MSU. Mullen turned Relf into a serviceable SEC QB. Then turned Dak into one of the greatest ever. Now we have Fitz and Staley that are very solid QBs with bright futures. When they are successful, are we going to say Dan was propped up by them? That's a horrible argument Todd. The reason we didn't win 10 games is because Dak was on his ass too much from our trashy OL. The attitude I will agree with and that has to be addressed. But to say Mullen is propped up by Dak makes zero sense. He made us into a legit team because of what he did with Dak. It's easy for us to just sit here and praise Dak's greatness. Dan made that shit from the freaking ground up people. He's one of the greatest developers of QBs in football right now. Do we really want to throw that away so easily?

Mullen has worked very hard and and kept his recruiting squeaky clean to get to the point in time where he stands right now. He has done a good job at a school that has had trouble winning historically without cheating....now it`s time to cash in on those personal achievements. He`ll leave the program with a damn good win/loss record but with the exception of QB in no better shape talent wise than Croom did and that`s not such a bad thing. If he gets his shot to leave and does we can hire someone as good or better or screw it up like we have so many times in the past but I`ll assure life will go on at at MSU with or without Dan Mullen. Personally I`m ready for a change but that`s just me.

Those of you that say "well this isn't all on Mullen...." Well guess what? He. Is. The. Head. Coach. It ALL falls on him whether good or bad. It's why he gets paid what he does. Last night is exactly why I've been beating the damn drum for awhile to let him run from this place. GTFO

Seriously, Where exactly is Dan going to go where he won't take a significant pay cut? Who is going to hire a coach who can't win the big game? Are you telling me that Maryland thinks he can go head to head with harbaugh, Meyer, dantonio, and Franklin. They would coach circles around him. I think we're stuck with him and that's not necessarily a bad thing if we have some staff changes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MafiaDawg

Seriously, Where exactly is Dan going to go where he won't take a significant pay cut? Who is going to hire a coach who can't win the big game? Are you telling me that Maryland thinks he can go head to head with harbaugh, Meyer, dantonio, and Franklin. They would coach circles around him. I think we're stuck with him and that's not necessarily a bad thing if we have some staff changes.

---

Maryland. They`ve just gotten into the B1G and have to kick it up a notch and they have access to lots of coins.

edited to add: Maryland`s AD ain`t the sharpest knife in the drawer

What I meant by "all on Mullen" is....

IMO they beat us last night because of talent. They have more talent because they are rogue as hell in recruiting. We can pay Mullen $10 mil a year. He can't control what they do in recruiting and the incompetence of NCAA enforcement.

If he would change, let him stay. He won't, so GTFO and quick. He is already leaving, beyond obvious at this point.

If we are all thinking clearly which I think the OP is alluding to then we can see that Dan and the team played like their coach is out of here. I saw no passion and desire last night which leads me to believe dan is gone. You know what we can go get another good coach paying them 4.5 if we needed too. Oh and asst coaches. The seal family made sure we would be able to pay top asst. Bring me whittingham

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Those of you that say "well this isn't all on Mullen...." Well guess what? He. Is. The. Head. Coach. It ALL falls on him whether good or bad. It's why he gets paid what he does. Last night is exactly why I've been beating the damn drum for awhile to let him run from this place. GTFO

---

It sucks more of our fan base doesn't see things this way. Most are so damn uncaring about real success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

What I meant by "all on Mullen" is....

IMO they beat us last night because of talent. They have more talent because they are rogue as hell in recruiting. We can pay Mullen $10 mil a year. He can't control what they do in recruiting and the incompetence of NCAA enforcement.

---

But he can control our coming out and playing scared. We got physically and mentally beat against any team that had an average defense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX

But he can control our coming out and playing scared. We got physically and mentally beat against any team that had an average defense.

---

Dak's TOs rattled everyone from Dan to dak to our defense to section 339... Those TOs were huge. Dan failed from not being able to calm the storm, but the storm was clearly started by dak. Doesn't mean I don't still love dak, but he played a huge part in last night's loss. He's won many more games than he's lossed though. He's still my favorite bulldawg too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

What I meant by "all on Mullen" is....

IMO they beat us last night because of talent. They have more talent because they are rogue as hell in recruiting. We can pay Mullen $10 mil a year. He can't control what they do in recruiting and the incompetence of NCAA enforcement.

---

Bull ****ing shit. Cop out.

Collectively we will be out of all the top 25 polls. So is he really a Top 25 coach?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Dak's TOs rattled everyone from Dan to dak to our defense to section 339... Those TOs were huge. Dan failed from not being able to calm the storm, but the storm was clearly started by dak. Doesn't mean I don't still love dak, but he played a huge part in last night's loss. He's won many more games than he's lossed though. He's still my favorite bulldawg too

---

This wasn't the only game. We play timid in big games and let the other team bring the hurt and the pain before we even act like we're interested.

Dan gets $4 mil a year. For that size paycheck I would expect more than just beating 6 cupcakes and 2 average teams.

We could get the same result for a lot less money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Bull ****ing shit. Cop out.

---

How so? Explain how that is a cop out? We've read extensively on this board and other sites how the big ole miss recruiting weekend looked like combination of Mardi Gras and Girls Gone Wild at the Hedonism Resort. Meanwhile, The Network is handing out thousands of dollars in red duffle bags and putting low income mommas in comfortable Oxford housing. Conversely, Bracy is suspending Redmond for a season and a half for getting a discount on a used car.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Op4isabitch

Dan gets $4 mil a year. For that size paycheck I would expect more than just beating 6 cupcakes and 2 average teams.

We could get the same result for a lot less money.

---

And not to get blown off the field by the others

Dan checked out years ago. We haven't had juice, strain or relentless effort since 2009-2010. The 2011 LSU game down 9 points he admitted defeat and tucked his cock (and his attitude) between his legs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrapGame

Dan checked out years ago. We haven't had juice, strain or relentless effort since 2009-2010. The 2011 LSU game down 9 points he admitted defeat and tucked his cock (and his attitude) between his legs.

---

Dan got us to #1 and 10 wins last year despite being "checked out"... That's impressive

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Dan got us to #1 and 10 wins last year despite being "checked out"... That's impressive

---

More Dak than Dan. Plus we beat shitty teams no one knew were shitty at the time. Yet, his asshole puckers shut on ole miss and Bama. Just like this year.

ETA: This is not the same Dan Mullen from 2009-10. He's lost his edge and Yankee attitude that we all loved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Dan got us to #1 and 10 wins last year despite being "checked out"... That's impressive

---

Gene Chizik won a NC

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MafiaDawg

I think we're stuck with him and that's not necessarily a bad thing if we have some staff changes.

---

It wouldn't be a bad thing if Mullen would first start sweet talking these recruits and saying whatever in the hell it is they want to hear. Further, a little help from our bag men wouldn't hurt Mullen either. Start setting these recruits and their families up. It's painfully obvious that the NCAA can't and won't do shit...and have some good lawyers in place to push back if the NCAA does start sniffing around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BossDawg

It wouldn't be a bad thing if Mullen would first start sweet talking these recruits and saying whatever in the hell it is they want to hear. Further, a little help from our bag men wouldn't hurt Mullen either. Start setting these recruits and their families up. It's painfully obvious that the NCAA can't and won't do shit...and have some good lawyers in place to push back if the NCAA does start sniffing around.

---

Bracky needs to be let go for that to happen. If I hear Bracky has been let go or resigns then I'll know we're about to kick it up a few notches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This isn't even about where we came from anymore. This is about freaking common sense. We are pissed about 8-4 people. Do you not see that??? How can we as MSU be arrogant enough to be pissed about 8-4 and want that coach gone? This isn't a we are lil ole MSU post. 8-4 is a pretty solid season and I would hope by now we had a huge transition on the OL after losing 3 seniors that we just couldn't overcome. I understand we are 1-3 against Freeze. I'm pissed about that too. I understand we haven't beaten as many top tier teams as we wanted. But for you guys to solely blame Mullen is shortsighted and ridiculous. We need staff changes 100% and we currently don't have the funding in order to bring better staff in. That's athletic department's fault right now and they need to fix that. Mullen needs to understand we HAVE to upgrade our staff, but we have to be willing to have the funds available to go get people we want. If he isn't willing to make those changes, THEN I'm ok with him going. I get relationships and friends and things like that, but if there is an opportunity to upgrade our staff significantly, then that needs to happen. But for you all to sit here and say he needs to go and say Hud or Skip Holtz or Herman (who has one full year of HC under his belt) are for sure better coaches is stupid. That's a pretty average list if we are being completely honest. If we are going to can Mullen or tell him the door is there and go, you better have some tangible evidence that there are options that would take our job today that are for sure better than Mullen and those three for sure don't meet those requirements.

I don't think we can guarantee that because no matter what some of you say, Mullen is a Top 25 head coach. So let's get some objectivity back people. Step back from the ledge and let's see how Mullen handles the next 12 months if he in fact is staying. A lot of us seem fairly confident we could upgrade from Mullen. Not sure some of you realize yet that you are pissed about an 8-4 season after a 10-3 season yet and just got done having Mullen completely build from the ground up one of the greatest QBs in the history of the SEC. Do we have areas for improvement? No doubt. Better recruiting and better staff for sure. But for those of you that think the pasture is always greener on the other side, you better be damn sure you are right if you go all in on Mullen leaving.

---

Nope, we just accepted what has been obvious on the field: that Mullen is a poor.game day coach. He's unprepared, makes poor play call decisions, poor personnel decisions, cant manage a clock, and can't motivate. It's too bad because in other ways he's a good coach, but his limitations are unacceptable and incompatible with our goals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Barkman Turner Overdrive

How so? Explain how that is a cop out? We've read extensively on this board and other sites how the big ole miss recruiting weekend looked like combination of Mardi Gras and Girls Gone Wild at the Hedonism Resort. Meanwhile, The Network is handing out thousands of dollars in red duffle bags and putting low income mommas in comfortable Oxford housing. Conversely, Bracy is suspending Redmond for a season and a half for getting a discount on a used car.

---

Not competing at all has nothing to do with talent. And not having talent is on the staff.

Lots of fans on the Maryland boards seem to think Mullen has already accepted the Maryland job. Rumor is 6 years at 33 million. Anybody else hearing this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by solodawg

Lots of fans on the Maryland boards seem to think Mullen has already accepted the Maryland job. Rumor is 6 years at 33 million. Anybody else hearing this?

---

Good. Leave asap and give us a jump on the coaching carousel

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

We you recruit better than us, then you whip us. That's what OM did. Freeze has it set up beautifully at OM. We don't. That's one thing that has to change. But can we really compare the recruiting situation at MSU to OM and someone that helped establish their pipeline? OM has a recruiting advantage. They do the things necessary to get elite talent. But do we think bringing in another head coach like Herman is going to change that? Heck no. The recruiting thing is much broader than we are talking about and yes we have to get it fixed. OM has outrecruited us and it showed on the field last night. And while Mullen is partly responsible, let's not be surprised that OM is bringing in high caliber guys right now.

As far as assistants, I think Gonzales, Johnson, Hughes and Diaz are the only safe ones. Might add Turner to that group although I would be ok if he's let go and we go a new direction. We do need better recruiters and we need to shell out the money to get them.

As far as being propped up by Dak in response to Todd, I guess Urban and Mullen were propped up by Alex Smith, Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, and his QBs at OSU???? Part of being good is that you develop talent at the most important position on the field. Dan does that and he's known for it and he did it again here at MSU. Mullen turned Relf into a serviceable SEC QB. Then turned Dak into one of the greatest ever. Now we have Fitz and Staley that are very solid QBs with bright futures. When they are successful, are we going to say Dan was propped up by them? That's a horrible argument Todd. The reason we didn't win 10 games is because Dak was on his ass too much from our trashy OL. The attitude I will agree with and that has to be addressed. But to say Mullen is propped up by Dak makes zero sense. He made us into a legit team because of what he did with Dak. It's easy for us to just sit here and praise Dak's greatness. Dan made that shit from the freaking ground up people. He's one of the greatest developers of QBs in football right now. Do we really want to throw that away so easily?

---

I made that argument because of our o-line. Dak could still make plays behind them which is remarkable. If we had to start one of our other QB's we would have been 6-6 at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

This isn't even about where we came from anymore. This is about freaking common sense. We are pissed about 8-4 people. Do you not see that??? How can we as MSU be arrogant enough to be pissed about 8-4 and want that coach gone? This isn't a we are lil ole MSU post. 8-4 is a pretty solid season and I would hope by now we had a huge transition on the OL after losing 3 seniors that we just couldn't overcome. I understand we are 1-3 against Freeze. I'm pissed about that too. I understand we haven't beaten as many top tier teams as we wanted. But for you guys to solely blame Mullen is shortsighted and ridiculous. We need staff changes 100% and we currently don't have the funding in order to bring better staff in. That's athletic department's fault right now and they need to fix that. Mullen needs to understand we HAVE to upgrade our staff, but we have to be willing to have the funds available to go get people we want. If he isn't willing to make those changes, THEN I'm ok with him going. I get relationships and friends and things like that, but if there is an opportunity to upgrade our staff significantly, then that needs to happen. But for you all to sit here and say he needs to go and say Hud or Skip Holtz or Herman (who has one full year of HC under his belt) are for sure better coaches is stupid. That's a pretty average list if we are being completely honest. If we are going to can Mullen or tell him the door is there and go, you better have some tangible evidence that there are options that would take our job today that are for sure better than Mullen and those three for sure don't meet those requirements.

I don't think we can guarantee that because no matter what some of you say, Mullen is a Top 25 head coach. So let's get some objectivity back people. Step back from the ledge and let's see how Mullen handles the next 12 months if he in fact is staying. A lot of us seem fairly confident we could upgrade from Mullen. Not sure some of you realize yet that you are pissed about an 8-4 season after a 10-3 season yet and just got done having Mullen completely build from the ground up one of the greatest QBs in the history of the SEC. Do we have areas for improvement? No doubt. Better recruiting and better staff for sure. But for those of you that think the pasture is always greener on the other side, you better be damn sure you are right if you go all in on Mullen leaving.

---

Totally agree. You get it, and several others do too....the problem is, we just lost at home to OM so a majority are losing their minds and unable to look at it bigger picture. People wanting Dan gone, simply do not realize what you're saying. Cool off a few days, then post. Getting rid of our best coach ever after an 8-4, possibly 9-4, season is just pure insanity. LSU is getting made fun of for almost running off their best ever after an 8-3 season, and they DIDNT DO IT, despite having far more tradition and expectations than we do as a program.

Quit letting Ole Miss and their program control your thinking as to the state of our program. I'm not bashing...I've been guilty of it myself in the past.....but that is exactly what's happening here. People are overreacting Bc Ole Miss has beaten us two in a row. Just relax...we just need staff upgrades...Dan is a great coach.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Totally agree. You get it, and several others do too....the problem is, we just lost at home to OM so a majority are losing their minds and unable to look at it bigger picture. People wanting Dan gone, simply do not realize what you're saying. Cool off a few days, then post. Getting rid of our best coach ever after an 8-4, possibly 9-4, season is just pure insanity. LSU is getting made fun of for almost running off their best ever after an 8-3 season, and they DIDNT DO IT, despite having far more tradition and expectations than we do as a program.

Quit letting Ole Miss and their program control your thinking as to the state of our program. I'm not bashing...I've been guilty of it myself in the past.....but that is exactly what's happening here. People are overreacting Bc Ole Miss has beaten us two in a row. Just relax...we just need staff upgrades...Dan is a great coach.

---

Dan is a great coach, the problem is that he is 1-3 against his instate rival and staring at 1-4. I've always thought that Mullen was simply a better coach than Freeze, I was wrong. Its not permanent, but that is where we are right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Totally agree. You get it, and several others do too....the problem is, we just lost at home to OM so a majority are losing their minds and unable to look at it bigger picture. People wanting Dan gone, simply do not realize what you're saying. Cool off a few days, then post. Getting rid of our best coach ever after an 8-4, possibly 9-4, season is just pure insanity. LSU is getting made fun of for almost running off their best ever after an 8-3 season, and they DIDNT DO IT, despite having far more tradition and expectations than we do as a program.

Quit letting Ole Miss and their program control your thinking as to the state of our program. I'm not bashing...I've been guilty of it myself in the past.....but that is exactly what's happening here. People are overreacting Bc Ole Miss has beaten us two in a row. Just relax...we just need staff upgrades...Dan is a great coach.

---

Really doesn't matter if who wants him gone and who doesn't. He's gone. He wants to leave. So therefore, **** him. If yall love him so much then buy some Terps gear

I have to disagree Cadaver.

We have 5 wins built in. 4 patsies and Kentucky. 7 this year year with Aub and Mizzu . We beat teams that aren't that good then call it a breakthrough.

It's smoke and mirrors. Mullen has never beaten anyone that I can recall that was actually good. Maybe Aub last year.... Maybe.

I'll give Mullen Arkansas this year. That may be his best win ever and they are 6-6. And that took a blocked FG to win it( rare).

I think Mullen has done good here but people acting like he saved our program are just remembering Croon. Remember Jackie instead then ask if he saved us.

We can do better. Croom was just soooo bad it made Mullen look like a God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Dan is a great coach, the problem is that he is 1-3 against his instate rival and staring at 1-4. I've always thought that Mullen was simply a better coach than Freeze, I was wrong. Its not permanent, but that is where we are right now.

---

Nailed it. Freeze is a better coach, OM is more talented top to bottom and they're more committed to winning. Yes, part of that is ugly but part of that is fact. Dan can no longer "walk the walk". Told CJ Johnson that if he went to Ole Miss we'd kick their ass 4 years in a role and instead we're now 1 - 3. And let's be honest, we had the biggest fluke ever to win that 2013 game as much as I love Dak and loved the end of that season. In the last 4 years, Dan has 2 good wins (A&M and Auburn) last year. The rest has been a shit show...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Totally agree. You get it, and several others do too....the problem is, we just lost at home to OM so a majority are losing their minds and unable to look at it bigger picture. People wanting Dan gone, simply do not realize what you're saying. Cool off a few days, then post. Getting rid of our best coach ever after an 8-4, possibly 9-4, season is just pure insanity. LSU is getting made fun of for almost running off their best ever after an 8-3 season, and they DIDNT DO IT, despite having far more tradition and expectations than we do as a program.

Quit letting Ole Miss and their program control your thinking as to the state of our program. I'm not bashing...I've been guilty of it myself in the past.....but that is exactly what's happening here. People are overreacting Bc Ole Miss has beaten us two in a row. Just relax...we just need staff upgrades...Dan is a great coach.

---

I think most people have been pretty rational to be honest. I think they see the problems and know changes need to be made but the issue they see is Dan won't change. So we have to make a change for Dan.