Headed to Florida. Ouch
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Headed to Florida. Ouch
I just saw this on the clarion ledger. He is an excellent coach, and from a rival standpoint, we are very lucky he won't be in Oxford. Great hire for the Gators, imo.
I think it's an awful hire for them. Not because he's definitely terrible...he may turn out to be great. But the advantage of being Florida is that you don't have to take these chances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
Foley is now making the kind of hires programs like us and Ole Miss are usually forced to make...take a chance on an 'up and coming' guy. By making these hires, he's just knocking them down to our level.
Meh... I agree may have been a good hire at OM. But this is a risky hire IMO for UF... He better win , win big , and do it quickly....Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
Lots of big names that much more proven track records I thouhgt might get it...
I agree... Very risky indeed...Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Cash in now, get hired by an Ole Miss or mid major later because the gators expected too much too fast. Good move.
I don't know how La tech can keep any fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Awful hire? Really? His first year, his team lost 8 conference games. He has lost a total of 8 conference games the last 3 years and has finished 1st or tied for 1st in his conference each of the last three years. He hasn't had the tournament success, but I would say that's the exact type of coach you want if you can't get a proven winner.
And my main point was that I'm glad Florida got to him before Ole Miss did. (Granted, I may be slightly biased. I met him back when he was in school in '98 or so, and had a friend on his coaching staff a few years back. By all accounts, he is a good coach and will be successful).
I don't know how he'll turn out, but he better hire good assistants that have recruited at elite level. He's never been a part of a program that recruits blue chip, national guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
For Florida? Yes, an awful hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
Again, that is not an indictment on him. But there should be no reason to say 'if you can't get a proven winner' at a place like Florida. They should be able to take any mid-major coach they want, and they should be a threat to come after some coaches at big programs as well.
He's had success at LT and looks like a potentially good coach at the top level. But he's a total unknown. That's unacceptable to me if I'm a Florida fan.
I believe before Donovan came to Florida, they may have only had 3 or 4 NCAA tournament appearances ever. I think it was just a few years prior (94 maybe?) that they made it to the round of 16 for the first time. This isn't an all-time powerhouse like Kentucky or UCLA. Florida is the house that Donovan built. I, by no means, think White will just come in and replace Donovan.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
At this point we are arguing over opinion. I simply believe that his record should speak for itself. If he hadn't crumbled in the conference tourney the past few years, and made the NCAAs, he would be a household name for mid-major coaches. Again, I'm just glad Ole Miss has Kennedy instead of White.
Sure, Florida was nothing before Donovan...but he's been there for 20 years now and they've had ridiculous success in that time period. 2 national titles sells itself, especially when combined with the resources their athletic department has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
White has done a very good job at LT and has a lot of things to like about him. But the fact still stands, he's an unknown, and Florida doesn't have to hire unknowns. Unless White is the second coming of Coach K, they can go out and get someone who is Michael White after proving himself more.
'Awful' may have been strong, but it's definitely not a great, and I don't even think a good, hire. Especially on the heels of McElwain. Those are some seriously underwhelming hires for a program with that stature and those resources.
I'll put it this way. If Mullen had left and we had hired McElwain, I wouldn't be pumped about it. During our bball search, I looked up White and would have taken it and said 'fine,' but I wasn't hoping for him. And we're not Florida.
JI for sure agree with the AK instead of White...Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Stevens
Talking about two different things. It depends on which one you care about. MW will not win the press conference and that is usually what matters to fans especially on message boards and in that regard he's an unimpressive hire. He will be a good hire on the court later on but you have to suffer with the press conference loss for several months, which does sting the fans. It looks like Foley hired for the court next year not for the PC this year. I'm a fan of that approach, but I know most aren't. Just based on past experiences if the fans aren't excited about the hire it's usually a good one. Rick Ray not included, that hire shouldn't be placed in any analysis, it made no sense whatsoever and is just a strange outlier sitting out there by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I don't think proven winner means anything in basketball. The handful of coaches that can win where ever they go aren't leaving their jobs, even for Florida. There are mid major coaches with better reputations, but they are by no means sure things moving to bigger conferences (as history has shown) and except for a tournament run, White has basically the same type resume.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I will say that Foley seems to have an unhealthy obsession with picking an up and comer, which is completely unnecessary at Florida. They never should have hired Muschamp. They should have been able to get the most promising and proven head coach available. I think he learned his lesson but had to make a football hire when there weren't really good options available. Freeze would have been a good option but it's just too hard to poach within the SEC now.
There were probably two or three people that reputationwise should have gotten a call before White, but I don't see this as being a reach at all. White can clearly coach and doesn't seem any more risky than any other potential hire, just because basketball is such a crap shoot.
I agree, he can coach, but can he recruit at the national level for 4 and 5 star guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
No one has said what players and recruits he will be coaching. It seems to me that all good coaches leaving on their on accord usually leave a empty barrel. But I don't know the situation down there.
He was the darling of the fans when he played at om. He spent a lot of time in the stands with them at the SEC tournament, I wondered if it was for the handshakes. I didn't like him as a players, didn't like him as asst coach, and still don't like him. If you ever wear the red and blue that's my impression and it always comes up. I have friends that are om fans, and every time I see them, that's the first thing that comes to mind, and I am on guard. Not apologizing , just stating a fact.
No, I'm not talking about the press conference. I'm saying that Florida should be able to go get coaches who are more proven than Jim McElwain and Michael White. That just doesn't cut it at Florida. I realize a lot of their fans trust Foley, but he hasn't shown himself worthy of that trust lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottycameron
Florida just followed up Billy Donovan with a guy who has been a HC for 4 years and has never been to an NCAA Tournament. Think about that.
I think the word is out that Foley has a huge ego and bad reputation for being difficult to work with.
\Mullen
I don't think that's what's driving Foley's hires though. If Foley picks an up and comer out of no where, he is the genius that powers Florida's athletic department. If he just uses the pocket book and Florida's recruiting advantages to go poach a proven coach from a major conference school that still can't compete with Florida, then he is pretty much replaceable with any competent AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingRabbit
How else do you explain rolling the dice with Muschamp.
That's a pretty bad way to go about being an AD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
I was mostly being a smartass about the messageboard bullshit floated out there about why Foley wouldn't "take" Dan Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
But I think you're mistaken if you think it's a viable strategy for a program like Florida to bypass proven coaches and purposely choose to roll the dice when hiring coaches.
I think his dad is an athletic director somewhere so I doubt he is into handshakes like your typical basketball type. His family probably has more money than anyone in the stands. Maybe he was passing out the handshakes, ha.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
None of that will matter anymore when they take the court. He just has to take the loss and live with it until next fall. Then everything starts new.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I seriously doubt that. In reply to Scotty.
I like the hire because it kills one of OM's backup plans... But I agree that from a Florida perspective, it is a very underwhelming hire....
Now I like that reasoning Engie.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I don't know if it's viable, but in football Foley has hired Ron Zook, Urban Meyer, Will Muschamp, and now McElwain. Only Urban Meyer looked like a good hire at the time. Looking into it, I didn't realize that Foley whiffed on two NFL head coaches before settling for Zook, and of course possibly whiffed on Freeze before McElwain (if you believe Freeze's agent, and why would he lie). Muschamp was at least a very well thought of DC so taking into account who he whiffed on, his hires don't look nearly as perplexing. It seems like his problem is that he does a poor job assessing viable targets, and then either gets left picking from a limited field or just makes a panic hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingRabbit
Looking at basketball, he's hired Donovan and now Michael White, with Donovan obviously being a phenomenal hire in hindsight and White it least looking like a reasonably good hire.
Geez, Foley is basically 1 out of 3 in football hires and 1 for 1 in basketball. Granted his two good hires were Urban Meyers and Donovan, so he pretty much hit a grand slam with Donovan and a home run with Meyer (only because he didn't stick around as long). But that's not that great of a track record considering he is recruiting coaches to Florida and in football had the benefit of recruiting somebody to take over SPurrier's program.
Muschamp was a press conference win. Fans were fired up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about the press conference or what fans think. I'm saying that Florida has the ability to go get a coach that is more of a sure thing (meaning a more proven coach who they know can go win games) than White.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottycameron
I don't care about the press conference; I'm saying White is a complete unknown in terms of whether he can win on that level. There's no reason to take a chance like that at Florida.
Who is out there at this point that you think would be more of a sure thing that they could get? Not disagreeing with you just think all of the midmajor coaches are basically a crap shoot and (for obvious reasons) I haven't paid a lot of attention to basketball the last year or two and don't know who has had success at a big conference school that UF could poach from.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I think there is a group of coaches that just aren't leaving for another college job no matter what - Coach K, Calipari, Self, Izzo, Pitino, Roy Williams, Bo Ryan, Sean Miller.
After that, if you're Florida, you have to at least go after them. So that puts in names like Gregg Marshall (even with the contract extension, you should have a shot), John Beilein, Mark Few, Jay Wright, Greg McDermott, Archie Miller, Lon Kruger, etc.
I'm not saying you could get all of those guys, but you could probably get a few of them. And they're all much better hires than Michael White.
SEC. coaching rankings...
1. John Calipari
2. Ben Howland
My how things have changed for us in the past couple of months.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottycameron
Kevin White is the AD at Duke ......
I was thinking it might be Duke but wasn't sure and you damn sure don't want to throw Duke out there and be wrong. I always get that tidbit mixed up with the Andrew Luck dad thing and another somebody with a dad AD mixed in too. My point to the OP was that he isn't exactly the type who hangs out with his pants halfway down asking for handouts. He's probably a pretty good kid. Looking at it now I'm more sure that I'm glad UF got him. That completely bypasses OM. There is no road from UF to Oxford.Quote:
Originally Posted by RIdog