interesting...hope DT is ready for the challenge
interesting...hope DT is ready for the challenge
Wow. This could be a real opportunity for Townsend to get a co-DC title
I don't have a problem with this based on what I read when he was with the Steelers.
That's surprising, but I like it.
My only concern is that I'm not sure when the last time would have been DT has even seen a triple option offense. He sure didn't see any in the pros.
exactly! If This is true I am going to be so perplexed. Only reason could be that Mullen knows Turner is out after the game. Bring on COACH O!!Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
He's been watching it on film for 4 weeks now. There are only so many ways you can defense it- and he has other guys on the staff to talk strategy with. Not to mention he can make some phone calls. We'll be fineQuote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
If you don't have GT or the military academies on the schedule, when was the last time any coach anywhere saw the triple option? (Obviously I don't mean the modern spread option where there are sometimes 3 options to take the ball)Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Hughes probably saw it the last time we played GT.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
One thing about Deshea is the corners are probably going to see the least amount action compared to the other defensive groups. That will allow the other position coaches to coach the other players that are going to be more involved and they won't have to worry as much about making calls and coaching their group if/when we need to make adjustments.
Hughes and Turner both...
Get a hat on a hat, keep your lanes, shed your blocks, don't over pursue, and wrap up.
Townsend wants to be a DC. I remember when Mullen hired him DT said that's one that attracted him to State was the fact that Mullen promoted from within...
I just love this matchup for is defensively. They don't have the athletes to attack our weakness. I feel the same way I did heading into the gator bowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Actually, there is more to it than that. D-linemen generally need to follow the O-lineman to where he is blocking, while keeping his shoulders square-to-the-line. So, if the opposing o-lineman blocks inside, our D-lineman needs to go inside with him to "plug things up" and take a way the gap they are trying to make. But he has to keep his shoulders square to prevent opening up a "cut-back lane" for the ball carrier.Quote:
Originally Posted by JDog13
Also, they don't want to "shed blocks" so much as they want to "occupy" the O-linemen for as long as they can by keeping contact so they can keep the GT O-linemen off our LB's, especially our Mike LB. D-linemen's job isn't to "shed the block, make the tackle or pursue" when playing the Flexbone. It's to fill gaps the O-line is trying to create AND keep the O-line for getting thru to the LB's.
It's the LB's we want making the tackles, and if not them, then the safeties or corners. You want your D-linemen to get their hands out and more or less "fend off" the "cut-block attempt" by pushing the O-lineman down, stepping inside with the block into the gap they're trying to create, and keeping the O-lineman from getting to our LB's.
That's the simplified version, and doesn't account for the multiple stunts we will see, as the offense knows what the defense is going to try to do, so tries to mix things up and disguise moves, etc. Our stunts should stop them from trying to key regularly on a specific defender/gap, etc.
I just hope Nick James still has knees after this game.
My thoughts exactly. To be completely honest, if I were able to choose between a guarantee of the win and a guarantee of coming out of the game without a significant d-line injury, I'd take the latter. I'm not sure of the severity of the injuries in their game vs. FSU, but FSU had DL down on the field right and left. Those relentless cut blocks might be legal, but they're brutal on a d-line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
I kept it simple to keep from typing so much. What I typed was basically what my coach in high school told us when a team we faced ran a lot of option. Our coaches kept everything simple. I agree with everything you said. You made some good points that I'd never really even thought about. I played LB, so I was never in the Line groups during practice. The LB's were taught line techniques that we used. Pushing down on the lineman when he tried to cut you, and handling being blocked from the side while keeping your pads square and in your lane. Other than that, we watched the qb and rb, and for pulling guards. There may have been more but that was 17 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully
My buddy played DE at MC. He's the coach you saw on tv from Loyd Star when his player died. He told me about swim moves and stuff. I was like, "What's a swim move?" He told me a lot of stuff that would have been useful to me when I played. Don't ask me how I made it through 2 high schools and 3 different coaches without learning that stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDog13
Yep......discipline and make the tackle.
Good call coach Mullen.
So do we read this is Turner is probably headed to Florida after the game? I certainly hope not.
The CBs will be on an island most of the game so I like the call by Mullen. The other position groups will have plenty to prepare for on their own.
I'm sure the other coaches will have a lot of say so in the gameplan.
Why are hopeful turner stays? The guy is an average recruiter an average coach and a coach none if his current players like. Their are better dl coaches we could hireQuote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Dog
I have no idea how good of a coach that turner is. If Collins wants him to come to florida, that tells me turner may be better than you're saying thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Or turner is being asked to look around. You should ask some people in the know about turner.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Well most people in the know say he is better than an average coach. And the DL play on the field proves he is well above Wilson. The players loved Wilson but didnt play as well on the field. Which would you rather have if you have to choose between the two? I take Turner all day every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
First bolded line: That is exactly what they want you to do. It makes us vulnerable to the staple first option of the triple option: the inside trap.Quote:
Originally Posted by blacklistedbully
Second bolded section: There won't be many blocks to shed. They will double team at the point of attack and turn the DE free. That's the point of the option, make the defense commit, and then take the next option. Tight ends will go second level to block point-of-attack linebackers. Most of our tackles will be made by our corners and backside LBs on pursuit.
There is no tried and true formula for stopping the option. To be successful, they have to set their plays up in the proper sequence and execute, because there is a built-in option off almost every play they run. For our defense to be successful, it has to do nothing more than play assignment football, don't overpursue, and let our athletic advantage take over.
The worst thing a team can do in preparing to play an option attack: think too much.
Yeah if people can't see the improvements that our lineman have made under Turner then they have no objectivity about the situation. Preston Smith was a beast this year. Eulls was very improved after looking unimpressive his first two years, Jefferson and Brown have grown tremendously, and you could see the change in Nick James as the season progressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Turner is much better than an average coach. Not a great recruiter, but a very good DL coach and he should get credit for that.
This is an interesting development. It is going to be hard to take away the play calling if DT does it in the game after this. It tells me one of two things. One, Mullen is seriously considering promoting DT to DC or Co-DC after this season. Two, it could mean that he is on the way out if he doesn't get the job, but I don't think Mullen would let him call plays if he were on the way out.
I agree that it was alot better than it was under Wilson, to say the least. This was easy to accomplish simply by proxy of putting Eulls where he belonged instead of trying to play a 300lb DE, and not starting Cherrington while holding back Eulls, PJ, Quay, Virges, James, etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
I haven't seen anything that really tells me he's an elite DL coach though. A good one to be sure. But how much of it is built on the pieces he was left by Chris Wilson from the #2 DL class in the country we recruited in 2012? State is a breeding ground for borderline elite DL coaches...
Lost in this, what if this is DeShea Townsend's interview for the gig and O is being lined up as a DL Coach/Recruiting Coordinator. Townsend has worked for the likes of Cowher, Haslett, Capers, Tomlin, and Ray Horton. If you are going to give one of your own a shot he may be the way to go. He made it into the league on special teams play before starting as a corner. That tells me he had to grasp the mental part of the NFL to make a prolonged career happen. All those guys mentioned above demanded both the emotion and the intellect required to be great.
Just food for thought. If we gave him the shot and he succeeded then perhaps given his local ties he remains longer. I say that not to keep some defensive scheme, but rather staff continuity on defense to match the offense. I think sometimes we miss how important that is.
Dan has to live with the effects of this choice so I hope and believe he will make the right choice. Just wanted to see what you guys thought about Townsend as a candidate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgowar
Dude Townsend started at Bama 4 years from his true freshman year on. He's was in the rotation early in the NFL. However, it's true he's been taught and learned from the best. The guy will shine whenever given the opportunity.
Preach Bubb!!! My concern is our corners not wanting to play physical for 4 quarters and tackle. I'm especially concerned about Love. They run the toss sweep until you stop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb
I guess it could be a possibility but I'm not so sure if this is just what the staff came up with as the best combo for this game. Its against a unique offense that may or may not skew your thoughts of how good he may be. Also, and I have no idea about this, but how much of what he wants to do as an eventual coordinator would be based out of a 3-4 alignment since that was the bulk of his pro career? That may be irrelevant for him but if it was me and you are giving me a showcase game interview, I don't know if GT would be a good guage of how I do from either DC or the HC perspective. We also don't know what Mullen's whole plan or thoughts are about the staff at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgowar
I thought about the 3-4 but honestly that scheme could be effective for us. Most of our lineman possess size and in that configuration the LB's are the sack guys. The Lineman stuff the run. In theory it could work for us. Regardless though of scheme or who the staff is, we need better safety play to break the next threshold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
BS. There is way more to it than you want to think. Yes, they will try to double-team. That is one of the reasons we will run stunts, to counter their attempts to target a specific player this way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb
When they attempt to block inside, they are hoping to create a gap, as you say, for the inside trap or dive. But we will use our D-linemen to "step inside with the block", as I said, with the goal of "jamming up the middle" and forcing the play outside, where our LB's & corners (or safeties, depending on if there is a "switch" called by the CB) should be ready.
As far as "shedding blocks" is concerned, I can't help but think you have not grasped what I was saying. Though we agree our D-linemen will not be dealing with "shedding blocks" as they would in a normal game, the will have to "fend blocks", and as I said, "occupy" their opposing O-lineman, because, sure-as-shootin', the GT O-lineman's secondary goal is to "get to the LB ASAP". That's what their engine runs for, not the 3-yard carry, but the occasional big one that pops because our Mike was taken out or slowed by a block, preventing him from accomplishing his "assignment", namely to tackle the dive play, or feather out, on the inside shoulder of the QB, waiting for the QB to come within tackling range before attempting a tackle or forcing the QB into a late-pitch, hopefully by then to a man being covered by the CB, Safety and/or support coming from the inside.
When you speak of "assignment" as if it's a simple thing, such as specific gap responsibility, it ignores the fact that an "assignment" can change at the snap for some positions, in particular the LB's. For instance, the OLB's have to quickly read whether their job is to, "fill in a gap that may have been created" or, "scrape over the top" to defend the option. As the GT offense will often try to disguise their intentions, and the Flexbone is designed to make most every play "look the same", though there are minute differences that can be crucial, this makes the defender's job a lot more challenging than just "gap responsibility" or "man responsibility" if either of those is what you are implying.
Also, as I mentioned before, we will run some stunts to counter some of GT's tactics. Sometimes our Will will stunt inside between the Guard & Tackle allowing our DE to go upfield, other times he'll play the edge with the DE stunting inside between the Guard & Tackle, and still others he'll go wide and assume responsibility for the pitch and have the Safety assume responsibility for the QB.
You talk about "tight ends" being the ones looking to block our LB's downfield. What tight ends? Are you talking about the "play-side A-back"? You do know the Flexbone will have a Center, 2 Guards, 2 OT's, 2 WR's, 1 QB, one B-back, leaving just the 2 A-back positions, one the pitch-option, the other the playside A-back? If the playside A-back has to take out the Mike, that frees our Free Safety to come up. And in order for the playside A-back to take out either the Mike or FS, he has to release upfield immediately. This is where our OLB needs to recognize his key and, in that case, step up to cover the QB. And he needs to rely on his DE to have attacked inside to help take away the dive.
So, you see, while we can casually say this is simply "assignment football", it's not "simple" and it's not a pre-determined thing. It relies on reading keys quickly, properly, responding correctly to the keys, even those that are trying to "fool you", and having everyone else on the D doing what they are supposed to be doing on that play, with those keys. If any one part fails, it could result in a big play.
It's not just about "setting plays up in proper sequence and executing". It's about everyone on the defense knowing everyone's role in response to what the offense shows, everyone reacting to the keys presented in the appropriate way (and this has to be done instantly & instinctively), and finally executing with great technique, technique that is often counter to what these guys have been doing most of their careers. For example, when the OLB releases the opposing A-back upfield and takes the QB, he has to resist the urge to rush up to tackle the QB, rather, he must just stay on his inside shoulder, mirroring across with him until the QB gets to him.
While one can argue that you never want your players "thinking too much" during a play, that's not what's being proposed. But our defense does need to think and learn a great deal in their prep for the TO, both their position responsibilities and those of their teammates. Our success on defense will hinge, not just on "gap discipline" but on our LB's & CB's reading keys, recognizing "fake keys", making the correct calls, then executing. It can be further complicated by the stunts we will call, so the DE's & LB's need to understand both roles, as will the Safeties and CB's. Really, the only positions on defense that are relatively "simple gap assignment" are DT & NT, and in the case of no stunts, the DE's.
We could make the scheme work after a spring and fall of practice not during bowl prep. You don't make that change right now after playing 4-3 for the bulk of the season and every since Mullen has been here. I would also like to see a little recruiting change for the line if you are going 3-4 from here onward. Like I said before though Townsend might be fine staying 4-3 as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgowar
Townsend is about as qualified to be DC as I am.
Yeah, I'm taking Townsend over you. Anonymous message board poster or Townsend? Who do you choose? It's not even a hard decision and I bet you choose Townsend over yourself as well. Unless of course your pedigree, of which we have no clue of, is similar to his.Quote:
Originally Posted by PendingTransaction
???? ????Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
recruits loved Wilson. I'm not so sure all the players felt the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?