Rick Ray expectations

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12-12-2014, 02:01 PM
DudyDawg

Rick Ray expectations

Okay, gun to your head, where do you see us going with him. It's been through the destruction and rebuild years, it's time to start winning. I think it's clear this team has gotten better, but I want more.

I think Ray is a really solid defense coach and seems to be a pretty decent recruiter (Malik pending obviously). For me tho, the jury is still out on the offensive end. We have no continuity offense to speak of. We either try to win the race up the floor, call a play, or stand too much and force a bad shot. He's got to improve there. Obviously personnel helps, but simple things like reading a defense and deciding how to come off a screen seem to be lacking, and that's on him. I certainly haven't been to all the games, but I also haven't seen much in the way of drawing up an offensive play to get a good shot late in the clock.

All that being said, gun to my head, I would have to lean towards saying he won't get us where we want to go. Maybe he can. I still want him to get this and next year to show improvement. I'm certainly on the fence, and trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Your opinions?
12-12-2014, 02:09 PM
Political Hack

Malik is his lifeline. That's it for me.
12-12-2014, 02:16 PM
HoopsDawg

I'm still undecided. There's an old saying in basketball that everything is better when you are knocking down shots. We simply can't make shots. And Ware is the only player who can score in the post and even Ware is trying to play more of a face up game this year.

If Ray's recruiting was on the same level as his first 2 1/2 classes then I would say it's time to move on. But recruiting is trending up. I like this 2015 class and definitely like the first 2 commits for 2016. Problem is, it's going to be a while before we enjoy the fruits of his labor. Will we be patient? I think Stricklin is going to give him another year. Ray will have to make the NIT next year to keep his job.
12-12-2014, 02:22 PM
1bigdawg

I think Stricklin will give him another year. But we should make the NIT this year. If we don't, the extra year will be based on the opportunity to get Malik in April.

I believe Malik is willing to come to State if we are good enough to make the NIT this year. Otherwise, I believe he moves on to a UK or Duke.
12-12-2014, 02:32 PM
MadDawg

I just want to feel excited about MSU basketball again. I started to get that feeling after watching us beat St. Louis. But then the last two games have tempered that.
12-12-2014, 02:35 PM
Political Hack

when's baseball season start?
12-12-2014, 03:12 PM
Miss. Stake

Ray will have a full fair evaluation by administration after 5 years. Rick Ray will get 5 years guaranteed and we'll see where we are unless we total bombshell out
12-12-2014, 03:20 PM
Goat from MSU

I am with Engie on this as far and wait and see at end of season , but Hack is right Newman is his lifeline . If we only have 14 or 15 wins and he loses out on Newman ,there is no 5 year plan he is gone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Political Hack

Malik is his lifeline. That's it for me.
12-12-2014, 03:25 PM
engie

He's on the clock now. I'm not going to be "happy" until we are a tournament team again. At some point, the ascent process has to speed up.

I expect to contend for the NIT this year. That's not "good enough" longterm, but would be sufficient for our current reality. The fact that Malik is even considering MSU given our current reality and empty Hump is a testament to how hard Ray is recruiting him.

The kicker is -- according to Warren Nolan predicts, which aren't "accurate" yet persay, but are mathematically valid, we finish at 17-13(8-10) is only good enough for a #136 RPI. That's not going to get us into the CBI, much less NIT. We better hope we beat some people we're not supposed to and the teams we play are better than the currently project...
12-12-2014, 03:27 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss. Stake

Ray will have a full fair evaluation by administration after 5 years. Rick Ray will get 5 years guaranteed and we'll see where we are unless we total bombshell out

He will get 4 years guaranteed but that's it. If we make no post-season play this year and none again next year there is no way he is around for a 5th year nor should he be.
12-12-2014, 03:32 PM
HailState39110

My goals this year were to at a minimum have a winning record (above .500) and be in discussion for the NIT. I also had expectations to win at a minimum 7 conference games (7-9 or better in the SEC) . That would more than double our win total in a weak league the past two years combined.

I must confess back when we had Croom and Polk 2 basketball was far and away my favorite MSU sport. Like some have said, Apathy has really set in for me concerning MSU basketball that I really just don't care anymore. I got excited after the St Louis win but that has diminished after our last two games . Something big needs to happen ( sign Malik, beat Kentucky, an upset win at Arkansas, win vs Florida St, etc) for me to get back into caring again. Otherwise, I'm ready to move on to baseball season
12-12-2014, 03:32 PM
jumbo

make the NIT this year. get Newman. make the big tourney next year. if these things don't happen, send him on his way
12-12-2014, 03:49 PM
Dawg61

Quote:

Originally Posted by jumbo

make the NIT this year. get Newman. make the big tourney next year. if these things don't happen, send him on his way

Either sign shooters or hire someone that can improve shooting. Till then we are dead in the water. I said this shit two years ago. Ray hasn't filled his roster and he hasn't upgraded the back of it with positive turnover. He has the same assistants and not a one of them can improve this team offensively including Ray. Ray has improved the program drastically in other areas though so thanks is in order for that. But we thank him every other week with a $50,000 paycheck. This team scares nobody offensively. We are flat out boring to watch. When our main offensive strategy is to try to draw fouls you know you've got issues on offense. Watching free throws for two hours is boring. No wonder the Hump stays empty. The women's team will double the men in attendance this year.
12-12-2014, 03:51 PM
mparkerfd20

Used to be a huge College Basketball fan. Now, I've already given up on Ray and couldn't care less about basketball anymore. Don't see that changing in the next 2-3 years unfortunately.
12-12-2014, 04:27 PM
Coach34

Im excited about basketball again. Can't wait to watch us play tomorrow. We look like a basketball team again. Ray certainly needs to start winning games now. Excuse time is over. He's going to get a 4th year- and hopefully he gets this team where it needs to be- around the 17-18 win mark
12-12-2014, 04:45 PM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

We look like a basketball team again.

Well, we seemed to be heading there until the Tulane game. Ray hasn't won a true road game since the opening conference game his first year (Georgia). He's got to figure out a way to get his team to play with more mental toughness on the road. Of course it also is a big issue on the road that we have little to no perimeter shooting. The primary reason we did win that Georgia game on the road was Jalen Steele and since we lost Steele we really haven't had a dependable outside shooter. Folks just pack the inside on us and our offense is dead in the water.
12-12-2014, 04:55 PM
shannondawg

Well whoop dee doo for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach34

Im excited about basketball again. Can't wait to watch us play tomorrow. We look like a basketball team again. Ray certainly needs to start winning games now. Excuse time is over. He's going to get a 4th year- and hopefully he gets this team where it needs to be- around the 17-18 win mark
12-12-2014, 05:33 PM
bobcat91

We are hard to watch. We are a terrible offensive club and I don't believe that we are going anywhere this year. Recruiting is improving and I have no doubt that Stricklin will give him 5 full years since this was his first major hire and he has taken a lot of heat over it. He is going to do everything he can to let Rick be successful before going in a different direction. It's up to Ray to make it work, but I'm not hopeful that he can.
12-12-2014, 05:41 PM
trob115

I personally want to see us make the NIT and sign Malik. Recruiting is slowly picking up, but we lack a guard that can consistently take over the game and knock down the 3. Don't tell me Thomas is that guy. I've seen enough to say that Thomas is a solid defender, but streaky at best from outside. We need someone with a killer instinct. If we land Malik, I think we finish top 2 or 3 in the SEC next year.
12-12-2014, 06:02 PM
HoopsDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by trob115

I personally want to see us make the NIT and sign Malik. Recruiting is slowly picking up, but we lack a guard that can consistently take over the game and knock down the 3. Don't tell me Thomas is that guy. I've seen enough to say that Thomas is a solid defender, but streaky at best from outside. We need someone with a killer instinct. If we land Malik, I think we finish top 2 or 3 in the SEC next year.

The NIT and landing Malik would be the best case scenario for the next 6 months, but I think both are long shots.
12-12-2014, 06:16 PM
engie

Thomas is at 46% from 3 for the year. He's at almost 50% going back to the game he sat out last year. That's not streaky -- that's the good shooter that most always realized he was finally growing up. He just needs some help from other guys imo.
12-12-2014, 06:28 PM
DudyDawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

Thomas is at 46% from 3 for the year. He's at almost 50% going back to the game he sat out last year. That's not streaky -- that's the good shooter that most always realized he was finally growing up. He just needs some help from other guys imo.

The trouble with Thomas isn't shooting it's ball handling. He's a good shooter but not a great handler or creator. People keep saying he's a bad shooter but that isn't the reality.
12-12-2014, 06:30 PM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by DudyDawg

The trouble with Thomas isn't shooting it's ball handling. He's a good shooter but not a great handler or creator. People keep saying he's a bad shooter but that isn't the reality.

Completely agree with that
12-12-2014, 07:00 PM
Liverpooldawg

Ray has little to no chance. I said when we fired Stans it would take at least a decade to return to where we were then. I have seen nothing to change my mind.
12-12-2014, 08:28 PM
Dawgcentral

Someone give me hope and a reason to watch/listen beside the fact that the colors are Maroon and White. The last two years have only provided my hope for more effort. Still haunted by memories of Sidney walking the floor. Not sure I'll ever get over it.
12-12-2014, 08:43 PM
mic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Ray has little to no chance. I said when we fired Stans it would take at least a decade to return to where we were then. I have seen nothing to change my mind.

To where we were then??? .. You do know we have only made the NCAA tourney 2 times since 05...
RR may not be the answer, but it wasn't like the previous coach was getting us to the dance very often.
12-12-2014, 08:48 PM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Ray has little to no chance. I said when we fired Stans it would take at least a decade to return to where we were then. I have seen nothing to change my mind.

So, at least a decade to make it back to a first round exit in the NIT? That's what you are putting on the record?
12-12-2014, 11:08 PM
sleepy dawg

We very likely won't make the NIT this year, which means after 3 seasons, we still aren't good at all.

However, I do believe we are improving. I don't think we have any realistic shot at winning a championship with Ray, but I do believe he can continue to build and get better.

With a gun to my head, I really believe we could eventually make the sweet 16 and being a top 25 many years. I think we're still about 3 years away though.

(these thoughts are based on the assumption that we do not get a 1 and done caliber player.)
12-12-2014, 11:14 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by mic

To where we were then??? .. You do know we have only made the NCAA tourney 2 times since 05...
RR may not be the answer, but it wasn't like the previous coach was getting us to the dance very often.

We won 20 games that year and exited in the first round if the NIT. Wake me up when we do that again And yes, a decade to get back there. This is year 3 or 4? In my apathy from enduring sub- Stans standards I have lost count. Fact remains is I was assured by quite a few people that all we needed to to do for an immediate cure was to fire Stans. So why is it that we haven't even come CLOSE to the standards that got him fired since we fired him? Blaming him for the current level of play is wearing thin but I have held my fire till now. I was a basketball season ticket holder for over 20 years. This level of play I never saw as a season ticket holder.
12-12-2014, 11:55 PM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

So why is it that we haven't even come CLOSE to the standards that got him fired since we fired him? .

He got fired more for off the court stuff than on- and we are far exceeding that now.

It's time for Ray to start winning- nobody is denying that. The hole Stands left has had time to be filled. We'll see these next 2 years where Ray can take us
12-13-2014, 12:19 AM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

We won 20 games that year and exited in the first round if the NIT. Wake me up when we do that again And yes, a decade to get back there. This is year 3 or 4? In my apathy from enduring sub- Stans standards I have lost count. Fact remains is I was assured by quite a few people that all we needed to to do for an immediate cure was to fire Stans. So why is it that we haven't even come CLOSE to the standards that got him fired since we fired him? Blaming him for the current level of play is wearing thin but I have held my fire till now. I was a basketball season ticket holder for over 20 years. This level of play I never saw as a season ticket holder.

Fire Cohenz that cussing fool!1!11

Ken Pomeroy seems to think this team is just as good as Stansbury's last two. Care to comment?
12-13-2014, 01:25 AM
Dawg61

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

Fire Cohenz that cussing fool!1!11

Ken Pomeroy seems to think this team is just as good as Stansbury's last two. Care to comment?

We aren't even close to that team. You know that. And yes a decade is possible at this rate. Ray is butchering his roster management skills every year and we know he can't recruit OR COACH shooting so yup very possible. Stansbury's last final three signees are all seniors next year. Think we are making the NIT next year you're drunk. After the Bury Three leave we are royally FU@KED. Whose starting then? Glass, Dunlap, Houston, Black, Ndoye? We won't win 15 games with that atrocity.
12-13-2014, 08:36 AM
maroonmania

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Ray has little to no chance. I said when we fired Stans it would take at least a decade to return to where we were then. I have seen nothing to change my mind.

So we are on the Sylvester Croom plan for basketball? Right. We saw how that worked out for Croom. Basketball, if you are worth your salt as a recruiter, is the program that can be turned around the quickest. 2 or 3 impact players can turnaround a basketball team quite nicely which is not even possible in football or baseball. Ray's problem is that he is just now starting to make inroads with recruiting and he hasn't concentrated on finding a pure shooter or two to go along with his "athletes". Had we brought in a coach (like say a Robert Kirby) that had ties to the area and history with the program things could have turned around more quickly but Stricklin didn't want to go that route so we have what we have. But its asinine to believe that a guy that is going to be the long term solution can't make one NIT by year 4. So, in my mind, he has this year and next to prove himself and that's it.
12-13-2014, 08:52 AM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

We aren't even close to that team. You know that. And yes a decade is possible at this rate. Ray is butchering his roster management skills every year and we know he can't recruit OR COACH shooting so yup very possible. Stansbury's last final three signees are all seniors next year. Think we are making the NIT next year you're drunk. After the Bury Three leave we are royally FU@KED. Whose starting then? Glass, Dunlap, Houston, Black, Ndoye? We won't win 15 games with that atrocity.

We aren't even close to AS TALENTED as that team. Which carries zero meaning with our ability to win as much. After that statement -- you went full retard. Which you seemingly can't help in every single basketball thread. Par for the course.

Weatherspoon, Tookie, Hicks, Simonds, Strugg, etc will all be here by then. Our talent level is going up -- not down. But you had to have something to go full retard about -- so by all means.
12-13-2014, 09:37 AM
Dawg61

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

We aren't even close to AS TALENTED as that team. Which carries zero meaning with our ability to win as much. After that statement -- you went full retard. Which you seemingly can't help in every single basketball thread. Par for the course.

Weatherspoon, Tookie, Hicks, Simonds, Strugg, etc will all be here by then. Our talent level is going up -- not down. But you had to have something to go full retard about -- so by all means.

So we're going to start five freshman and sophomores? That only works for Kentucky.
12-13-2014, 09:37 AM
Coach34

Quote:

Originally Posted by maroonmania

But its asinine to believe that a guy that is going to be the long term solution can't make one NIT by year 4. So, in my mind, he has this year and next to prove himself and that's it.

I think most sane people agree with this 100%
12-13-2014, 09:51 AM
engie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawg61

So we're going to start five freshman and sophomores? That only works for Kentucky.

That's what Ray has done for the last 2 years -- and it hasn't slowed you from going full retard 1000 times/season on him.
12-13-2014, 11:46 AM
Dawg61

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

That's what Ray has done for the last 2 years -- and it hasn't slowed you from going full retard 1000 times/season on him.

7-29 in the SEC bro
12-13-2014, 11:48 AM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by engie

Fire Cohenz that cussing fool!1!11

Ken Pomeroy seems to think this team is just as good as Stansbury's last two. Care to comment?

Great if so. We will see what happens.

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