http://www.wfaa.com/news/texas-news/...267105581.html
I didn't know the Nazis brought the war to the Gulf. And supposedly they sunk a ship at the mouth of Our State's river.
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http://www.wfaa.com/news/texas-news/...267105581.html
I didn't know the Nazis brought the war to the Gulf. And supposedly they sunk a ship at the mouth of Our State's river.
http://cdn.filmschoolrejects.com/ima...ter-header.jpg
Absolutely, the Germans were all over the Atlantic and Gulf. They actually tried to slip a couple spies in offshore at one point, but they got caught, if I'm remembering correctly. And at the end of the war in Europe, we found German plans for an invasion of the U.S. They had also been working on long range bombers to reach the east coast. History could have easily turned out very differently than it actually did.
It would of if Hitler hadn't gone full mental. Turning on the Russians, moving his troops to Stalingrad instead of just taking Moscow, keeping his troops in Russia long enough for the harsh winter to come on without being dressed for the weather, failing to let his top Generals make critical battlefield decisions while he slept costing the German army a full 12 hours on D-Day, keeping a million German troops at Calais for 48 hours convinced Patton would attack with his fake baloon army while D-Day happened, failing to attack and invade Britain before the US had even gotten involved are just a few of Hitler's baffling blunders. He slaughtered so many people including his own army with these decisions.
if he would've attacked England instead of Russia, that's all it would've taken. Europe would be called Germany. Scary thought...
they found a 175' iron gun boat from the civil war in the Yazoo River several decades ago. Can you imagine if the German would've conquered Europe and started sending boats into the gulf and up the MS river? I'm not sure our population, even back then, understood what a war would look like on American soil.
I believe there two Uboats sunk just beyond the Mississippi sound if memory serves correctly.
had radar not been invented, germany would have won the war just based on how they were dominating the atlantic with their u-boats. they were blowing up cargo ships left and right for about 2 years before we were able to start blowing up the u-boats. these were American goods and sailors heading to England. hundreds of boats and tons of supplies and war material lay at the bottom of the Atlantic. lots of American sailors too. the Brits were close to having a famine on their hand. a lot of the war success was due to their invention of radar and cracking the german's secret communication codes.
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Originally Posted by Dawg61
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Originally Posted by Political Hack
Indeed. Of course to be fair, the Patton feint was a brilliant call by Ike. After the way Patton had kicked the Afrika Korps & Rommel's ass in North Africa, then totally dismantled Sicily (with Ike & Monty trying to screw him the whole way), the Germans were scared to death of Patton. They didn't want any part of him, so I kinda understand why they fell for it. Plus, Patton is my favorite general in all of history. He was a brilliant field commander, although a bit of a meat grinder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bully13
But the rest of it.....yeah. The world was wayyyyyy closer to being a much, much darker place than most people realize. Thankfully, Hitler went insane and decided to split his army, invade Russia, and fight a war on two fronts. Never a good idea. There's a reason no one has successfully invaded Russia. They've mastered the art of engaging enemy forces just enough to keep them advancing, while retreating and destroying anything useful to the enemy, especially crops, until the Russian winter inevitably comes. Then it's game over for the invading force.
And yes, the German U-boats wreaked havoc in the Atlantic. You just about couldn't make the crossing for a period of time. They completely shut down shipping lanes.
hey WMD, wasn't Monty the one who eventually kicked Rommell's ass in Africa? correct me if I missed that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
also, Monty was a prick when it came to Patton. agreed on that one. Patton was always my favorite. along with Bull Halsy in the Pacific. I've always agreed with Patton over Ike when it came to taking Berlin. I understand the reds lost more soldiers than we did and actually ended up killing more germans than we did but still. we could have captured berlin before they did and Ike just decided to let the reds come in first as a jesture of "good will". stalin was stunned at that decision by Ike. I think that decision burned us in the end and made the cold war more difficult for the decades that followed. everyone could see that they were in conquer mode and the only land we were taking was enough to bury our dead soldiers.
hitler's drug addiction, insanity, mental and physical health made him a terrible leader towards the end. that's why we abandoned a plan to assinate him because we decided we wanted him at the helm as opposed to being replaced with a better war leader.
love the Inglorious Bastards reference ... one of the favorites
Wow this is fascinating. Can you go into more detail here? The Russians would intentionally destroy everything and then retreat backwards forcing the Germans to occupy land that had no resources? That is brilliantly sick and twisted.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
probably a major reason the outlier communities and regions of Russia have been so oppressed for years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
It's what the Russians have always done. They did the same thing to Napolean in the 1700s. You NEVER invade Russia. They lure you in, let you think you're making progress, all while they're taking out the resources you need to survive a long invasion of Russia. Then inevitably the brutal Russian winter comes, and you're toast. You starve to death or freeze to death. And the Russians harass you to death with winter assaults, while your guys are still probably stuck wearing their summer gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
The combination of topography, size, climate, and Russian tactics make a successful invasion almost impossible. Russian leadership isn't afraid to starve the country if it means starving the invading force. They've proven it over and over throughout history. As you say, it's a bit sick and twisted, but it's completely, brutally effective. It might be more doable with current military tech, such as long range bombers, but in the 1940s and any period prior, the land assault of Russia was about the dumbest military decision you could make. They're sick, ruthless bastards that aren't afraid of sacrificing the civilian population in order to protect Mother Russia.
I still say Patton was right when he wanted to team up with the Germans and launch an assault on the Russian forces in Eastern Europe as WWII was coming to a close. Would've saved us a whole lot of trouble during the Cold War.
Wow why on earth Germany would even attempt to invade that is suicide. The shear size of the country, their huge army and terrible climate should be enough to deter any invader. Did Hitler not have any knowledge of how Russia fights a war on their own land? Hitler just had a death wish for himself and his entire country. He had the war won. Just finish off Britain and it's over. Done. He chose instead to murder 20+ million more people and ensure Germany loses.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Yea it was called the scorched earth policy. They would retreat and burn everything that they were retreating from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Hitler was an insane megalomaniac by that point. As evil as he may have been, Hitler was actually a pretty brilliant dude and a scholar of history. He knew damn well how the Russians defend their territory, but he thought he was the guy that could actually succeed. Plus, if I'm remembering it correctly, he was convinced that Russia was going to attack them, so he decided to invade Russia first. But he didn't have the resources to back it up, especially when he split his army to do it. And as I pointed out, it forced him to fight a war on two fronts. It's really a good thing he went insane. If he hadn't, there's really no telling how WWII would've turned out. Hell, if he'd just decided to finish off the Brits before invading Russia, it might've been different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Oil and gas to fuel the German war machine. By the end of the war, most of germanys machinery was running on syn gas which is very hard to keep an entire army mobile on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
This was a major problem for Japan after we stopped selling them oil too. Sounds like Hitler was just convinced that Russia would attack him and he did what he always did and tried to blitzkrieg them first before they knew what hit em. Country was way way too big to fall to a blitzkrieg attack. Africa, France, Middle East and all the countries he took over had lots of oil.Quote:
Originally Posted by HereComesTheSpiral
That's pretty much it. He knew the Russians would eventually join the war in all likelihood, so he wanted to throw the first punch. But for the reasons I enumerated, you can't really attack Russia conventionally. They've mastered the Scorched Earth Defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
gonna kill some damn natzisQuote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
This is true. They put the first turbojet into service, the ME 262, although by the time it was operational with the Luftwaffe, they had already lost the air war. It was a terribly unreliable airplane and dangerous airplane to fly, but if the 262 had been operational just a year earlier, the allied bombing campaigns would have had to deal with them in larger numbers as the war progressed. Plus, the Germans would have refined it, and worked out some of the design flaws. That would have made the war even more costly and drawn out.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
You should also include the V2 rockets, that could have pushed them over the top if they were able to perfect that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bothrops
The Russians could not have pulled it off without the lend- lease program. the USA supplied them with the tools of War.
More pleaseQuote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
It's a scorched earth policy. The Russians have used it successfully as a defensive maneuver against the German army in WWII as well as the French army in the Napolianic Wars. Sherman used it against the Confederacy as an offensive maneuver in his famous march to the sea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorched_earth
Hideki Tojo was saved and resuscitated by Allied forces after attempting suicide by shooting himself in the chest and then he was hanged for war crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hideki_Tōjō
It was actually a good plan that was known to be a gamble. If I remember right, it took the German army something like 50 days to relocate and prepare for the Russian invasion when it was supposed to take 15. The winter hit them 10 days out from St Petersburg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I think they split their army in Russia as well or else they may have actually succeeded there regardless. They went on two offensives in Russia while also having troops on the offensive in Western Europe. Insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
Germany actually split their army in the Eastern front into three divisions fighting Russia in the North (Leningrad), Center (Moscow) and South (Kiev) and had Moscow all but captured (which they still eventually did capture) and Hitler pulled a major portion of the Center force and put them in the South to take on Stalin's biggest force head on. Germany's ultimate fail in the battle vs Russian was that it simply took too long. Their strategy was the Blitzkrieg or break down the doors of Russia quickly and the country would fall but it just took too long and then Germany was totally fu@ked when Russia brought in 18 divisions from Siberia that were experts at fighting in the bitter cold and the Germans were not equipped for it. Hitler refused to retreat even at the urging of his Generals and the rest is history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
"A scenario involving Moscow's fall also ignores the arrival of 18 divisions of troops from Siberia—fresh, well-trained, and equipped for winter fighting. They had been guarding against a possible Japanese invasion, but a Soviet spy reliably informed Stalin that Japan would turn southward, toward the Dutch East Indies and the Philippines, thereby freeing them to come to the Moscow front. Historically, the arrival of these troops took the Germans by surprise, and an unexpected Soviet counteroffensive in early December 1941 produced a major military crisis. Surprised and disturbed, Hitler's field commanders urged a temporary retreat in order to consolidate the German defenses. But Hitler refused, instead ordering that German troops continue to hold their ground. Historically they managed to do so. However, with German forces extended as far as Moscow and pinned to the city's defense, this probably would not have been possible. Ironically, for the Germans, the seeming triumph of Moscow's capture might well have brought early disaster."
Found this on reddit, Nagasaki was not the initial target for the 2nd A-Bomb, it was Kokura but a factory steel worker burned tar for 3 hours that morning to create black smoke blocking the pilots view of the city so after failing to locate their target after 3 separate fly overs they decided to drop the bomb on Nagasaki instead an hour later. This story hasn't come out till now because the steel worker and Kokura (which has a new name now, Kitakyushu) didn't want to inform the people of Nagasaki that the bomb that wiped out their city wasn't even intended for them.
http://mainichi.jp/english/english/f...na014000c.html
but that's the thing, the march actually went quicker than expected, they just got started several weeks later than planned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
most of all they were 6 months from having an ATOMIC bomb ready.