Right Will?
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Right Will?
He was lucky tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem For A Dawg
It would be pretty funny if Ross did a Sierra Mist ad on the scoreboard. Of course, I would probably be the only one who gets it in the stands, but...
I didn't particularly enjoy the single and double to start the 7th. Glad their coach sent him with no outs, that would have been run number 5. He did good to get the out when he came in though.
Also I don't understand the Will thinks Ross sucks meme. I think he is about on par with everyone else in our bullpen. On par. If Lindgren or Porter has a big game I'm not going to come here and play the nanny nanny boo boo game or the next time Renfroe gets a hit with RISP. Same concept.
Well he did lead the team in K's last night, probably has been reading your advice online.
Good. His K rate is down 25% from last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem For A Dawg
For the last 36 hours you've been in a twitter spat about how Mitchell's stats mean nothing and you'd rather have Girado or C.T. If you'd rather have other people in the game than our leader in wins and a guy who has the same ERA as Girado but 125% more IP and you are afraid of what would happen if we bring him in during critical situations then you don't think he's on par with the rest of our league-leading bullpen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Then you start a post on here about how people just want to defend Mitchell because of our blind allegiances to baseball players and aren't recognizing that he's not that great based on your set of advanced stats.
Most of us are proud that Mitchell and glad that his name is among the league leaders. Instead you want to bring him down and say he needs to get better. He is what he is - a crafty lefty. He isn't going to develop a 90 mph fastball over night. I find what he is able to do with his abilities remarkable. We all know he doesn't have Holder or Bracewell's stuff. But we do know he's a winner and he plays damn good for the maroon and white. I'm glad he's on our team and I hope he's at the top of Cohen's list to pitch in every big game we play from here on out.
I agree with most of that. On par doesn't mean same in every situation. I put my opinion out there that we use him in the wrong situations a lot which got turned into "WJ thinks he sucks" by the unthinking people.
Also I think we look at the wrong stats. Because I dismiss ERA outright the rubes say "Oh WJ thinks Ross sucks because he doesnt like his low ERA". Any reliever coming in with outs on the board will have a lower ERA nnaturally which is why it's a bullshit stat. Same with pitcher wins and losses. Is Graveman the worst starter because he had the most losses? No. I'm not proud of anything regarding wins losses and ERA because I don't believe in those as measuring sticks. I'm not going to fake proudness in a 9-0 record if I don't think the pitcher record means anything.
Bench mitchell for lindgren and let renfroe bat with the game on the line. That is what the formula says. Yall are all ****ing stupid if you cant see that
You don't have to be "fake proud" about anything. There's just no use in bashing his statistics - stats that everyone uses. I don't see any of your FIBA or SIERA or MSODFIU stats on MLB.com - which if we're going to be seeing those stats on the backs of baseball cards in 5 years I would assume they'd have them somewhere, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Maybe you don't mean to bash Mitchell, but that's how it comes off to almost everyone reading. You are terrible at arguing, which is unfortunate since it's your favorite past time even ahead of sabermetrics. Your goal seems to be to get people to buy in to this way of thinking about baseball. If that's the case, then have an introduction, body and conclusion of your thought process and why/how it matters rather than simply thinking we should all buy in and if we don't we are morons stuck in the 1960s.
Fangraphs.com Great site.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=21,a
That's not my problem. Again it seems that people jump at the slightest opportunity to jump in and defend baseball players as opposed to football and basketball. Coach has a good point about Stansbury being a good correlation but that was a coach. Dee Bost won a ton of games yet has been identified as a cancer multiple times. A cancer, all I am doing is putting numbers out there. I don't know any of our baseball players, don't really care to. Me talking about Ross' numbers and stats is just me talking about random roster number 48's numbers. There is nothing personal on my side, but there definitely is in area's of the other side.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Yes and I guarantee I've been successful in changing how some people watch our games.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
As long as he (and all the others in the pen) are contributing to WINNING efforts, I don't care what the individual stats say. Ultimately, W's vs. L's is the only stat that counts.
It is your problem. If you can't lay out a complete thought that allows other people to actually understand what point you are trying to convey, then you aren't doing it right. You keep saying we are misunderstanding you - the people reading aren't all dumb and you are smart. If most people aren't getting what you are trying to say, then you aren't explaining it well enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Your conclusion that people just want to defend Mitchell is not accurate. Is anyone defending Sam Frost? Everyone says there is no way in hell he should get on the field yet he has a batting average well over .300 and is hitting almost .350 in SEC play. If we were all smitten by those stats wouldn't we defend him since he's a baseball player?
The plain simple fact is more people don't buy into this theory about Ross Mitchell than do. The percentage of people who think sabermetrics trumps ERA and batting average is very low. You harping that one of our best pitchers isn't really as good as we think he is just makes you look like an idiot, not make us want to buy into your outside the box statistical analysis.
Come on dude. He's 3rd on the team in innings pitched. Quit acting like Cohen brings him in with 2 outs to face lefty, then yanks him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
I look at the SEC numbers. He has been on the mound when 13 runs have been scored not attributed to him. That's why I look at what have you as a pitcher done vs hitters at the plate. Not things like earned runs that rely on others and certainly not pitcher W's and L's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem For A Dawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
No- we think Will James thinks Ross sucks because you keep putting out a stat that you say proclaims that Ross is lucky and then tweet it out to him.
Thats a lie. Luck is a statistical phrnomenonen not an insult and I have never tweeted at any player in my lifeQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
As a lot of you know and a lot of you will learn in life, it is better to be lucky than good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Dude has thrown over 60 innings and had a 1.2 era. Period. Of course players like lindgren have first round potential. So did renardo sidney. Ill take brandon vincent over sidney all day.
Someone may have retweeted or sent it to him- regardless he saw it and found out about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
And whether you want to believe it or not, when you say something about someone who is working their ass and or requires some degreeof talent to be good at something and say that they are "lucky"- yes, it's an insult.
Very true. It's about making it count when it counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar
The reason people rag on you so much is because you enjoy doing things in the most "PLEASE LOOK AT MEEEEEE!!!!!" way possible.
People have no respect for you or your opinion because you don't listen and consider all perspectives, instead, you find some facts that support YOUR perspective and act like an ass simply to be "right."Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Ross is 9-0 and, aside from a few outings, has done a phenomenal job at taking his abilities an using them in an effective way. Instead of saying "Ross has been extremely effective, hell he had 9 wins, but here's an area of improvement he might look at.." you spout off, and I quote, "wins and era are meaningless stats... My stats will be on the backs of baseball cards because all those others are outdated." Even if the points are the same, that's why no one listens to you.
I know you won't listen to me at all, but if you'd consider a few other perspectives other than your own (limited) perspective and not all out attack everyone who disagrees with your (limited) perspective, you might get a little more respect...
Wainwright had one of the highest BABIP's in baseball last year. Mike Minor ha one of the lowest. Saying Minor was lucky and Wainwright unlucky is a stat not an insult. Despite both working very hard. Quit this coddling of baseball players. We are talking about a damn statistic. Nobody coddles football or basketball players but for some reason it becomes personal when baseball players are discussed. It became personal to the guy I was debating on twitter Becuase he ttweeted at Ross saying "This guy thinks your just lucky and not any good" when nothing can be further from the truth. Dee Bost has repeatedly been described as a cancer and nobody said anything. He's one of The winningest players we've ever had. I give my statistical opinion of our baseball team and people go bonkers. It's pathetic. It's like some people don't consider it major college athletics so criticism should be kept minimum. Well I disagree and if a stat offends anyone it doesn't bother me in the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
No Will, you didn't say this stat suggest he may be lucky, you say he is lucky. After watching him for 2 years, we know he is not just lucky. Your stats are wrong. You come off as a baseball nerd who doesn't know much about the game, only how to analyze stats.
You keep reverting to people not wanting to criticize baseball players. You ignored my comment about Sam Frost. Why do we criticize him when he has such good stats? He is on the BASEBALL team right?
Ross has come into the game 12 times in league play with runners on base. 7 of those times he has allowed runs to score, totaling 13 runs. That does not show up in ERA. It does show up in FIP and SIERA. I don't know why this is ignored.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
I'm curious if you could tell me of those 13 runs how many were on 3rd base or just in scoring position when he came in and how many outs we had. Like I said I'm just curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
I believe I listed them in another thread. I also believe the point of a reliever is to shut that situation down in most cases. Not give up runs in 58% of them. That's why we need high strikeout options, that situation is not suitable for Ross which is my entire point. ERA reflects none of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWillScrewItUp
Slow clap. Wonder what wills vcash account looks like from the betting page.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
I can see will being a coach that goes .500 every year and loses to an inferior coach who just goes on instinct. Will has all the charts so he will never accept that he is wrong.
Kind of like him with the renfroe deal and runners in scoring position. If you could pick anyone on the team to hit with the game on the line, he would pick renfroe. Yet, renfroe is least clutch on the team, no matter what a chart says.
Just watch all the games and see who the baseball players are. Mitchell isnt a great pitcher. He probably wont even sniff minor league ball but he is a ******* baseball player. That is what I want. Judge by how they play
You are correct, I would pick Renfroe. How stupid of me*
And here we go...some things never change.
Will James is a closet Rebel and wants us to lose.
Will James would rather be right than us win
Will James is an arrogant prick douche
Will James just cherry picks stats to make our team look bad
Why does Will James hate Mitchell so much? I think Mitchell ****ed Will James girlfriend
(It's fun to do it to other people now)
Will James has a girlfriend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Requiem posts on here? Whats up Requiem?
Of course it doesn't show up on era, he didn't let the f-ing guy on base! He, however, is responsible those he faces. Why is his era not high? Because people ate bailing him out of jams he created? Hell no. He's third in innings pitched so that's not it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
So let him start innings in long relief but use someone else to get out of jams. Which is my point. Again. When you come into jams your job is to get out of them. He's not been great at that because his doesn't K people. The reason we change pitchers is because the current one is on pace to let those runners score. What's the point of changing pitchers if the next guy lets them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Who is coddling Ross? If anything, you coddle Jacob Lindgren with the exact same stat despite the obvious fact that he simply isn't performing all that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
I'm TELLING you how people are perceiving what you are saying and why they are saying that. In your mind, you think it's because people are somehow refusing to accept sabermetrics. It's because you said that a guy that is reasonably performing well for us and has done nothing to warrant criticism for performance is lucky.
The fact that BABIP's poster boy is a guy that was recovering from Tommy John surgery last year should tell you something. I can tell you that Wainwright wasn't sharp at all at the beginning of the year- but that had nothing to with luck as much as it had to do with recovering from a major arm surgery. In all honesty, the Cardinals rushed him back a little bit. He performed much like the old Adam Wainwright the second half of the year. EVERYONE in baseball knew he was going to be good in 2013 no matter what metric you used.
And again, yes by saying Mike Minor was lucky you are insinuating that he isn't all that good which yes, is an insult at him.
This is so confusing. I thought we were comparing him to Lindgren who is a starting pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
First he was lucky, now he is good but just don't bring him in with runners on base.
Ok. I think I have your logic down. So - Mitchell isn't a strikeout pitcher so he shouldn't be brought in during those situations but he is good to go if starting off an inning. But I am afraid to criticize baseball players unlike basketball and football. Just one question, who's call is it to bring in Mitchell with runners on base? Next time it happens, should I yell at Ross and say "HEY MITCHELL YOU SUCK WHY ARE YOU COMING INTO THE GAME WITH RUNNERS ON WE TOLD YOU TO WAIT UNTIL THE NEXT INNING"?
Dont take it to the extreme ends Todd. A really low BABIP means some luck is involved not that it's "all luck and no talent". Lance Lynn had a high one. Cliff Lee had a high one. Max Scherzer had a high one. Matt Cain had a low one. It's not an insult.
What Im not saying: Mike Minor is just lucky that's all
what I am saying: With a low BABIP, Minors Numbers are improved based on the luck factor.
If you can't see the difference, which you seemingly can't, I don't know what to tell you.
I don't know why that was so hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Then your whole critique is on Cohen for bringing Ross in with runners on rather than Ross himself. Yet you lambast people for claiming Ross is one of the SEC's most effective pitchers saying we are afraid to criticize a baseball player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
If your point from the start was runners on when he comes in people would agree, but you keep changing your responses and blaming Ross rather than Cohen.