Per Mark Bowman- The #Braves are considering promoting Bethancourt and moving Gattis to LF. J-Hey would move to CF and J-UP to RF atmlb.com/1lF4d82
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Per Mark Bowman- The #Braves are considering promoting Bethancourt and moving Gattis to LF. J-Hey would move to CF and J-UP to RF atmlb.com/1lF4d82
Would be fine by me. We need to just release uggla or trade him for a bucket of balls. BJ has at least shown some improvement and could be a beneficial late inning replacement.
I wouldn't be in favor of that move at all. Gattis isn't that good in LF. Plus, the whole reason for the move would be to bench BJ in order to get his bat out of the lineup. But here's the problem: Bethancourt, while being a great defender, sucks as a hitter. I don't see him being much better than BJ offensively, to be honest.
Plus, it actually hurts us overall defensively, in my mind. Sure, you upgrade catcher a bit, but the OF defense goes to hell with Gattis in LF. And El Oso Blanco isn't exactly a bad defensive catcher. Watching him on a regular basis, he's actually pretty good behind the plate. And the staff loves throwing to the guy because he's creative with pitch selection back there. Also, it's not like BJ sucks as a CF defensively. He's actually still pretty solid out there, even though he doesn't have a stellar arm. The move also decreases team speed for an already slow team with Freeman, CJ, Gattis, and LaStella in the every day lineup.
Another factor to consider: J-Hey has struggled to stay healthy playing RF. Do we think he can hold up to the physical demands that come with playing CF and the increased pressure on him in CF to help cover up some of El Oso Blanco's lack of range?
Overall, it seems to me that promoting Bethancourt would be a desperation/panic move. While I want BJ out of the lineup, I don't see how adding Bethancourt solves anything. We're still in first based on our pitching & D. Bringing up Bethancourt screws up the D. The only option we have is to give Schafer another shot, cut Uggla, and go find someone on the scrap heap we think we could fix as an OF. Or call up the Dodgers and see what it would take to get one of Kemp, Ethier, or Crawford. They're log jammed in LA and need to move someone to unjam. Unload a couple prospects if that's what it takes, but go get some legit OF help.
I've been saying for 2 years I'd literally trade Uggla for a box of new balls and call it a win. Problem is, the box of balls has more value than Uggla at this point and no one wants him. The only option we have is to cut him. Just don't know why Wren hasn't had the balls to do it yet. We're going to have to pay him regardless, so free up the roster spot already.Quote:
Originally Posted by trob115
I'd imagine BJ still starts most games even with Bethancourt getting called up
also rumored that LaStella will be moved up to the 2nd spot in the order
Pretty sure that was a thought by FG against the angels bc they don't have a lh relieverQuote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
The thing is, Bethancourt is actually a pretty good contact hitter. He doesn't walk and doesn't have much pop outside of doubles power, but he doesn't strike out a lot either. His bat has come around over the past two years. The contact would be an upgrade over BJ at this point. Also, center field is a position where offense is more important than it is for the catcher position. You can afford to put a guy who is mostly a defensive guy at catcher.
I don't disagree that Gattis is a poor defensive left fielder. I do think making this move to put him out there or at least make it a platoon situation between he and Bethancourt at catcher gets his bat in the line up more. As it is, he's getting 1-2 days a week off where his bat is not in the line up at all, just to play the endless black hole that is Gerald Laird.
By moving Heyward to cf, you weaken lf and rf.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
Justin Upton historically is a better right fielder than left fielder. It doesn't make much sense, but it is true. Justin is a bad defensive left fielder. He's a better defensive right fielder than BJ is in center though.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
LF and RF become weaker, but CF definitely improves. BJ hasn't even been solid defensively out there recently; he's had some bad mistakes.
I was initially much in favor of this move; I've cooled on it slightly but I still think it would be a good move overall. I think Gattis is just fine defensively and does seem to call games well. However, he doesn't compare to Bethancourt. Bethancourt would immediately rival Molina defensively, and I'm not exaggerating. It instantly saves us runs behind the plate. From everything I've read, Bethancourt can change games defensively.
And no, he won't really be an upgrade offensively over BJ. But he shouldn't really be a downgrade, either. So the question is, does Bethancourt in C and Heyward in CF upgrade your defense enough to allow Gattis to play LF? I think it does personally. I would like the move. Our lineup would become better, too, if we moved La Stella to 2, moved Justin to 3, and then had Freeman/Gattis 4/5. And right now, I'd even be ok with Gattis hitting 4th and Freeman 5th.
Heyward is the best rf in the game thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by KB21
True, but he's also a better CF than BJ, and playing in CF actually gives him a bigger impact on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
The Braves have a minor leaguer that rivals a future HOF, 6 time gold-glove winner and 2-time platinum glove winner? Wow why's he in the minor leagues? NL needs his glove in the All-Star game. Seriously. I like home-field advantage for the WS.
Because of his bat, same reason Molina came along slowly initially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I'm not necessarily saying he is the equal of Molina, just saying that he would likely be the closest thing in the majors once he's called up, based on everything I've heard and read. Bethancourt is not your average good defensive catcher; he has all the ability to be one of the greats.
I've heard comparisons to Benito Santiago more than onceQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Giants didn't get on this run the last 5 years till they called up Buster Posey. I'm hoping they call up two more this year in Adam Duvall 3b (22 HRs) and Joe Panik 2b (.320 avg). The trade deadline is going to be very interesting this year.
Maybe the nl will institute a dh in the upcoming week. If so, I'm sure Christian will be called up. I really don't want any part of gattis in lf though and I certainly don't wanna lose gattis' batQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Hmmm maybe Freddie Freeman can play LF haha, he's probably better at it than Gattis
He probably is. Gattis is one heck of a hitter, but a terrible of'erQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I assume this would only apply for games where Gattis needs a breather from being behind the plate, and that Laird has not fully recovered from getring knocked on the jaw a couple days ago, so he will be DL'd with CB called up to take his spot
They won't call Bethancourt up to simply be a bench guy. He needs the PAs.
The Braves are in a tough spot right now. Gattis' only logical place in the field is at catcher, but they have this defensive whiz in the minors whose only value comes from being behind the plate. I know they like Gattis' offense and Bethancourt's defense enough that they don't want to give up either one, but they may have to make the decision at some point.
Personally, for as much as I'm drooling over Bethancourt behind the plate, I don't think we could afford to lose Gattis' bat anytime soon, so if a move had to be made eventually, I'd wait until Bethancourt has proven he can hit well enough and trade him for another bat, preferably at 3B or in the OF.
But it's a tough spot for sure.
A better comparison for Bethancourt is Salvador Perez. Benito had more pop in the minors, and Salvador may be the best defensive catcher in baseball not named Yadier Molina.
I wonder how wren looks at gattis long term. You've gotta think gattis is gonna get better and better offensively. Will he develop defensively? I really don't see how we can hold onto both very much longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
The thing is, he's already a viable catcher. It would be great if he does continue to develop defensively, but he's not really hurting us there as it is. And I definitely agree on his offense. All signs suggest he's going to be a very valuable catcher for a while. I would guess Bethancourt ends up being the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
It's a good problem to have, but it is a problem because I would love to keep both. But I just don't see it as possible.
Our problem is that our best hitter is a 1B, so he blocks guys like Gattis who don't excel defensively. You can try to hide someone like that in LF, but it still hurts you. I'm really frustrated that we signed Chris Johnson, too. He's negative value with the glove and the bat...that signing made no sense.
BJ has to go. He made two critical errors this weekend - just boneheaded fielding plays. Currently, hitting just above .200. He has become a total liability.
Chris Johnson has been nothing but solid since coming over from the 'Stros. Sure, he doesn't have a whole lot of pop that most CIF's have now, but he hits for average and gets big hits.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Gattis is a damn good defensive catcher. I don't know where this idea has come from that he's not that good back there. Personally, I think he's better than Mac was defensively. And while Mac wasn't great, he was very underrated as a defensive catcher. I think too much stock is put into a catcher's defensive ability based solely on their percentage of base runners thrown out. El Oso Blanco should be a big part of the Braves' plans moving forward.
A bigger problem that I think deserves some discussion: The Braves have done a very shitty job of evaluating and developing OF talent. Schafer looked like he was going to be big time, then got hurt in his very first MLB game, tried to tough it out, and has never really recovered since. JHey is very good but that's about it. And there's no one in the farm system currently that's generated any sort of buzz in the OF. That's why we had to overpay to sign a marginal free agent OF and give up some prospects to go get Justin Upton. Although I do think Justin has been worth it overall. Still, the Braves have GOT to start nailing the evaluation of elite OF talent if they want to improve.
Also, where the hell is Terdoslavich? Dude looked like he was on his way to being a serious player last year. I'd love to get his bat into the lineup.
He also made a great play last night. I don't know why I hold out hope on bj, but I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Garvin
The problem is Christian is so good defensively. That's why I say gattis has to improve defensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Pretty easy decision: the Braves need offense more than they need defense. Plus, you have to think of the situation in terms of contracts. There's really no reason to hurry CB to the majors, especially since his bat needs developing, as no matter when he comes up the team has him for 6 years from that point. Add to that that JHey and JUp are signed for this year and next year only. Sign a veteran C next year for one year, with CB in AAA, and for 2016 call up CB as the primary C and put Gattis in LF and backing up behind the plate. Find 2 OFs and let BJ play only when Gattis is behind the plate (Wren is too stubborn to cut him).Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Gattis was really bad in lf last year. I don't wanna see him in lf after 2 years of catching.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
upon review, i agree. The defensive metrics say he was pretty bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
the difference between Gattis' and CB's bat is bigger than the difference between CB's defense and Gattis'. CB is currently putting up a 630 OPS or something like that in AAA. He will spend '15 in AAA, and either that OPS will climb a good bit higher and force Atlanta's hand, or it will not and he will have a long career as a backup catcher. Catchers that hit like Gattis are just too rare to trade away, you don't do it to make room for a guy that can't hit.
Gattis is currently -3 in DRS on the year as a catcher. That puts him 15th among 16 qualified catchers.
Johnson has a -7 DRS and a wRC+ of 75. He's one of the worst third basemen in baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg
Where does he rank offensively?Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
He doesn't rank. He doesn't have enough at bats to rank, which is a problem. If he had enough plate appearances, he would rank #2 in baseball in wRC+ among catchers.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
BTW, Fredi has to be the worst in game manager in baseball. Why does he pinch run for Gattis when that run makes no difference in the game? As a result, the game is going longer, and the best hitter on the team is now out of the game. You can bet after playing 2 extra inning games in the past three days that Gattis will not be in the line up tomorrow.
Simmons just saved Laird's lard butt there.
because he won't bat again for at least a couple innings (which likely won't come to pass), and sitting him then keeps him fresh for games later. no objection to the pinch runner, but i would have used Uggla and saved Schafer for when the runner would have mattered more.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
It is a dumbfoundingly stupid coaching decision to do that, and this is the 2nd time in 3 days that he has done it. In both cases, Evan's spot came up to bat again. Now, down 5 runs after Fredi's dumbfoundlingly stupid bullpen management, the Braves have the pitcher leading off the inning.Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomBoom
To me the dumbest move was when we had 1st and 2nd with no outs and we didnt bunt with lastella. I love lastella as much as anyone but bunting was the correct move. It was an awful move and it cost us the game IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
I'm also ready for walker to go. This team can't situational hit any better than state '14. It's embarrassing. Jup had ff on 3rd with 1 out and justin is swinging for the fences and pops it up. Does anyone but lastella cut down on their swing with 2 strikes? Give walker a month and lastella will think he's a homerun hitter. I know FG isn't going anywhere, but I'm really hopefully we can walker like today