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Cadaver hit on the article I read yesterday saying its good pub. I agree with that 100%. My question is why are bloggers and media guys take issue with These recruiting letters? You can feel the attitude and anger in their pieces. I wrote about how weird this double standard is.
http://3rdand57.wordpress.com/2013/0...up-recruiting/
I don't really understand the interest in our recruiting methods either. While the "You're a baller" and the "Can of swag" messages are interesting and shows some unique thought as does a note to a recruit's Mother on Mother's Day it all seems pretty benign compared to the creepy, stalking methods used by the Black Bears in this past recruiting class.
good points Beast ... it's like the rest of the sports world keeps saying we have to recruit better and then they want to hammer us when we do .... I think it upsets them that a perennial doormat is trying to pick itself up and be competitive ... makes no sense at all .... I guess they are all OK with the hostess approach **
Excellent write up, Steve. I agree, and I think double standards like this Needs to be pointed out. Thanks for doing that.
It's as if giving recruits whores and cash is "great recruiting", but Mother's Day cards are "taking it too far"? That's bull shit and I'm sick of it.
I don't know that I felt the anger, in all honesty. And I don't really buy the smallest recruiting budget stuff. I mean, all the guy said was "this is getting ridiculous" and it sort of has. The fact that we have to do this, is more what the guy was referring to IMO.
F*ck these mfing writers anyway. Quit caring what people think. We've got our brand and we're rolling with it. MSU is better in an underdog role anyway, us against the world or whatever. Look at how Auburn does it, they are a model to copy in that regard.
Agree w/your 2nd paragraph goat. I went in to say I don't care how the coaches recruit or the players react. It's on them. I thought it was worth pointing out the dbl standard though. When we do something, guys like this blogger or a Richard Cross type get all condescending. And again, I really don't care but its worth noting
It matters when people with a voice are making fun of us. The fact is, we are easy targets and our fans don't get pissed about it and make them shut up about it. Perception can be reality, and is reality most of the time with a recruit. If people are making fun of MSU but falling all over OM then where are they going to lean towards?
Take the last couple of weeks at FWtCT - one week we wrote an article about Auburn and the next Ole Miss - their fans jumped on us like a pack of wolves. Needless to say our fans where hiding in the corner afraid to speak up. I guess that's just the type B personality that typically goes to MSU, but sitting back and letting people rail on State has got to stop.
The lack of people demanding Matt Stevens lose his job is a disgrace. That Will Redmond Mustang story still stands out there suspended in air with no proof. He went on Finebaum running his mouth about it and it irritates me that our fanbase doesn't really care or know what goes on. I'm sure his "source" was just Wardlaw who was lighting flames under every bridge he had but still, we need to get rid of that idiot. Our athletic department should not allow him to be credentialed. That may be extreme, but I just don't think Auburn, Bama, or Ole Miss would stand for that kind of crap from a two-bit writer.
A freaking men CD. That is my point exactly
This guy gets it people and I wish there were more people like you in our fanbase. He;s dead-on about Matt Stevens....that mf'er wouldnt have a job if he wrote in Alabama, Louisiana, Georgia, or Fla- but we allow him to keep on keeping onQuote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Fans of other schools run us down because they dont want to have to see us on their level- because in all reality- we havent been since the 1940's. They like us staying in our "place"- the bottom of the SEC. As Croom Diaries said- perception is reality and these other fans want to play up the perception that we suck and Starkville is a shithole that nobody would want to go to.
Think about what fans of other schools have done with Mullen- a coach that has been more successful in his first 4 years than any coach we've had in the last 70 years:
First, it was Mullen was a bad hire- Meyer was going to fire him if he didnt leave...then we go 5-7 and win the Egg Bowl over the Cotton Bowl champs
Then it was Mullen is going to leave first chance he gets- and we go 9-4 with a Gator Bowl victory.
So then you start seeing Houston Nutts flaking out in interviews because he is feeling the pressure- and fans begin the "Mullen cant beat anybody but OM in the SEC West" coupled with "Mullen can't recruit"
We go 7-6 with a Music City Bowl win after having an inordinant amount of injuries- and fans keep on with the "Mullen can't beat anybody in the SEC West besides OM"...Nutts fired. Recruiting gets better.
So then what happens? OM cant turn us into the NCAA like they did to Jackie, so they get a patsy to do it. Byron Devinner gets bankrolled by Taco Bell money to go public and try to get the NCAA to Starkville. Only problem was the NCAA started asking questions about other players- not just State recruits- so suddenly Devinner got instructed by his lawyer to stfu. Devinner disappears into the night.
2012 starts and Mullen defeats an SEC West team not named OM. We go 8-5 with a late season swoon- so now it's "Mullen has reached his ceiling". It took Jackie Sherrill 9 seasons to win more than 8 games- but you never heard anybody saying he had reached his "ceiling". And what infuriates me is they get our own fans saying that stupid shit also. We can be our own worst enemy at times.
Exactly, Coach. Can't fault the media for having that perception of us -- if a pretty good percentage of our own fanbase already believes the bs they are putting out there to be true.
It drives me insane seeing the bs that our fans regurgitate straight from the mouths of Rebels as their own truth and gospel -- without the discernment or common sense to sift through the BS themselves. To an extent, that mindset and stupidity has turned me into someone I never wanted to be on MSU boards. I can always defeat that mindset logically -- but it gets difficult to avoid making it personal after you've seen it a couple thousand times -- and it's constantly purported by a few of our own fans.
Let me first say that I agree in theory with everything you are saying. I think we all do....at least everybody on THIS message board. Dawgstudent and some of those guys may not, but all of us agree on what MSU is and should be. I just sort of disagree about the way to go about it. Let's not get pissed off......let's step back and let the emotions die down. Getting pissed and emailing the newspaper is going to do nothing but make them happy that they created a stir and cast their paper in the limelight.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
State fans have an inferiority complex.
I was raised in Georgia and haves lived in north Atlanta all my life except my 5 years at MSU and lived one year in Jackson. People over here think Mississippi is an awful place. People in Mississippi think they live in an awful place, Atl would be much better. Not the case.
I can't tell you how many times I heard "why would you come to State when you lived in Atlanta?" Well because I can't think of a place where the people are great and life is better than Starkville.
The area I live in is pretty affluent, and there are a number of people who go to OM. I think me and Evan Mitchell are the only ones to go to State in the last 20 years. It's because they have a perception of OM as "the Harvard of the South" where rich people go, etc. If they can't go to UGA, they figure they'll rub elbows with the decision makers in Oxford. When they get over there they discover the education isn't any better and all they really do is dress nice, but the perception is what it is. People over here know Ole Miss, not State.
My point is, outsiders have driven State into the ground because of their world view and State people just accept it like that's their lot in life. BS. What State has is just as good as anyone else has. In fact, better. The people I met at MSU are so far superior to the folks in the city it doesn't compare. If we would stand up and defend ourselves instead of turning the other cheek we'd be doing a lot better. But I'll say we are a lot better than we used to be and Bryne and Stricklin are to thank. Every day we get a little bit stronger as the younger generation erases the stigma the older generation let sit in our living room and stink up the house.
I think we should make these people accountable by making them fear crossing us. Tweet them and don't let up, litter their comments section with points about how they are wrong, spread message board or blog posts about them, throw beer on them if you see them at a game, etc. Write our athletic department about how bad the writer is and ask them to not allow them on campus again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
If I write a blog post ripping ole miss, it's almost guaranteed to end up on the spirit or something and I'm sifting through tweets, emails and comments about how I'm full of it. That fires me up because I love to piss them off but if it was my job and I'm supposed to be objective, I'd steer clear of messing with them because they are obviously pissed and may make my job not so stable.
If someone puts a kick me sign on my back I'm not going to just laugh it off. I'm going to find the person who did it and kick their ass so they don't ever think about crossing me again.
TCD, I'm a Bulldog living in Birmingham, and I'm in the same situation as you, year-in and year-out. I started school at State in 1966, and the perception of MSU in Alabama now is exactly what it was then- a team that will play you a tough game once in a while, maybe get a win once a decade, but still an SEC bottom feeder. I get pissed every year having to listen to Alabama and Auburn fans who call in to the sports talk shows (usually after some positive comment has been made about us by somebody on the air) with the comment "but they're still Mississippi State." And I've long since concluded that the only way we'll ever change that perception, both in Alabama and everywhere else, is for our teams to backhand their teams onto their collective asses two or three years in a row. If the time finally comes when we do that, all this horse shit will stop.
No doubt. When I say we need to back away and let emotions die down, I'm not saying we should sit back and take it. Instead of ya-ya-ing with them I'd rather take a shit on their f*cking face, then eat their children. You can't tweet/email/yaya back and forth with these squirrelly ass *** journalists.....that's their profession. It's what they do. They live to sit up there and ask controversial questions in hopes that a coach or player will snap at them. They are the lowest of the low.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
You're absolutely right. Nobody's going to give it to us, we have to take it. We can defend MSU forever, but until we win the games on the field ain't nothing changing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullmutt
If you really want to know how you can help MSU win long-term, you do the follow things: Buy tickets, go to games, give to the Bulldog Club, and most importantly....get involved with student recruiting. Get more people interested in MSU. Fly your flags at your house and on your car. Wear the clothes. It's more than sports. Much more.
You guys are all spot on. It's time for us to change that bull shit mentality, and it can start with THIS board.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
That's why I am trying to get the coaching staff to look at those recruits Will and mic found, and why I think Steve's article is so great. And it's why I think Engie has had the right mentality for a while now....
We have got to realize that we are the ones that make the changes. We can't rely on others in our fan base, bc too many of them have a Genespage mentality. We can be the ones to start developing that mentality for our fan base. The reason Ole Miss gets #1 rated recruiting classes, and shit like that, is because they believe they are the best and their entire fan base gets behind that mantra.
I know this post has strayed a little off of the main topic, but still. The reason this board is so great is because I feel like we have a group of people that can truly change the status quo mentality of MSU fans. We have a big voice in the perception of the University and the Athletic Program...we have to take that responsibility and do something beneficial with it.
Sorry for the rambling, but I'm passionate about this shit.
#Cadaver2016*
Actually, we did that to BOTH Alabama and Auburn in the late 90's. It didn't really change their attitude too much. However, I think most Alabama fans at that time figured it was only a matter of time before they hired a guy like Saban. They just had to figure out who that Bear-like coach was and go get him. Auburn just figured that they would royally cheat their ass off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullmutt
It's so hard because State fans for whatever reason refuse to pull in the same direction. Every time we take steps forward, we take 2 1/2 steps backward. We went to a NYD Bowl in 2012, while our rival went to a shit bowl in Birmingham that has changed names a few times- yet somehow have some of our fans feeling like we had a losing season. I dont understand that. Nobody hated losing to those mf'ers more than I did- I can assure you of that- but that still doesnt change that we had the better season.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Who won more games in 2012? State
Who had the longest winning streak in 2012? State
Who won more conference games? State
We lost the battle- but won the war. Now, we have a new season in front of us and it's time to get ready for this season.
Actually, now that I think about it, the late 90's we beat most everybody in the SEC West pretty consistently, except for LSU and maybe Arkansas. And even then, we were usually pretty competitive except for LSU and we still managed to beat LSU in 1999 and Arkansas in 1998 which were huge victories. We lost to Arkansas twice in OT and then we were pretty much robbed in 1999 when a TD pass came back on a "holding" call.
But while we were winning, I think most of the other programs could tell that we really weren't progressive. We did expand the stadium, but what we really needed to do was enclose it. I think they figured it was only a matter of time before the NCAA got Jackie and then we would hire some boob like Croom and all would be right with the world again.
I think that's the difference now- we are actually doing things under Dan that are progressive- not that Jackie didn't try, I don't think he had the support from the AD that he needed. Inevitably going to enclose the stadium, we have the new football facility, etc. I also think it's smart that while we are enclosing the stadium, instead of making it about more seats, it's about being more upscale with premium seating.
But yeah- I don't understand why Dan is getting criticized for sending someone's Mom a Mother's Day card on Mother's Day? Maybe his mistake was not showing up in his underwear and hand delivering it? Then it would be tenacious.
I still say that the NCAA is going to have to look at what is going on with football recruiting and limit some of this garbage that is going on. Sending a kid 500 facebook messages shouldn't be allowed. And I know my parents would have been royally pissed if a college sent me 200 letters in one day when I was in high school.
One thing I do like about Dan is when he does this stuff, you can kind of tell he is making fun of the other schools for doing it. What's even more funny is the recruits get what he's doing every single time.
I think it's fear of having to deal with failure. They know that failure will come at some point in time, however that is defined, and that people will "make fun" of them. I think for a lot of our fans, it's just "easier" to deal with things in their mind if they expect the worse because then they are "pleasantly surprised" if we win and it somehow makes "winning better when you don't expect it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
That's just me perception based on having heard other MSU fans over the years.
However you cut it, it's a loser attitude.
Oh and since when the hell did "rational" mean believing whatever kind of crap Ole Miss spews about us?
Yeah, do that...and more. Everybody needs to be all in for Mississippi State. If we want to be a legit SEC program we need to be a legit SEC fanbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
You just hit the nail so hard it went clear through the wood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Hey Todd....I honestly can't find a better assessment than the posts you made here in this thread. Should be a sticky. I'm even guilty of some those things....many of those things. But I'm in the boat with Cadaver....there's potential on this board. Some of us are just about sick and damn tired of getting the short end of the stick. We all know we're better than this shit. I'm well traveled.....I've seen what we've got and I've seen what others have. No reason for us to sit back and not take advantage. It's not like we aren't used to fighting and clawing for everything we get. Let's f*cking do it. That's how revolutions happen.
OK...enough with the cheeseball rant, but f*ck it. This is a multi-million dollar business. No taking prisoners any more....it's more than a damn game honestly.
Boom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
"Immortality, take it, it's your's!!!!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Holder
- Brad Pitt in Troy
I approve this thread.
As a recent grad, I can tell you that another problem is going to be the microwave mentality of my generation (myself included). Last season turned off A LOT of young people to Mullen because it was such a miserable crash and burn, followed by Freeze "working Mullen" in recruiting. You've got to understand a lot of people (especially among those I know personally) think Freeze is about to keep working Mullen. I personally hope things have been corrected, but cautious pessimism is the theme right now.
Honestly, #WeBelieve, followed by the 1-5 finish probably ended up doing more harm than good.
I honestly amazes me how many State fans think one great recruiting class and Egg Bowl win make them invincible now. That's bull, and I hope most State fans know it, but they don't seem to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I say through a decade of misery and we have people complaining about 1 year of a meager 7 wins? I don't think it's the season they were disappointed in. it was the Egg Bowl loss. Without that loss, everyone would be fine.
Nothing personal at all, and I know you are a great poster on multiple boards, but this part of what you said makes for a good example IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluelightstar
In what way did Freeze allegedly "work Mullen" in recruiting? Last I checked, we won more than half of the head to head battles with them -- in a year when the talent in the state was heavily in OM strongholds, which is very different from this year when much of it falls in MSU strongholds. We took 5 of the top 9 in MS, they got 3 -- 2 legacies and a South Panola kid. Then, we basically split in JUCO recruiting. This statement, to me is another example of MSU fans buying into OM propaganda hook, line, and sinker IMO...
Why can't we just say that they had a great class following a crappy class -- and we had a very good class, which followed another very, very good class -- and leave it at that? Because a bunch of our fanbase seems to be genetically predisposed to cower to them at the first sign of trouble...and those same people will then be upset at the "undeserved" OM Superiority Complex that they've constantly fed with their actions. See the cycle here?
Someone has to break that cycle -- and it's about damn time we did.
Exactly. Fickle nature of this fanbase that is an achilles heel to our progress. It needs to be corrected before we can ever hope to truly move up a tier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
If we win in Houston, everyone and then some will be back on the bandwagon swearing they never left...It's really that simple...
But then you get these responses:
- If you care that much about sports, you should check your priorities
- If you get that mad, you should be a fan of another team
- That's the way it's always been
- I've been a fan for 590 years
- Etc Etc Etc
Now it would help a little bit if we could win something once in a while. But remember this is the same fan base who has basically booed every QB we've ever had off the field. The Dontae Walker situation ONLY happens at MSU. Nowhere else.
This^^^ All Damn Day!Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
We just gotta learn to play the damn game. Quit falling for propaganda and start creating our own! Nothing is EVER said on OM boards that can be used against them. Is that a coincidence? Hell no, it's a mindset...and a damn good one that we have to develop. Imagine if our fan base had the "all in" mindset without the douchey arrogance that most Rebels have...it would be a force to be reckoned with. Don't fall for shit....counter it.
they outrank us every year in recruiting, but we've whipped their arses 3 out if the last 4. we've apparently go better football players than they do.
This. All day every day. The sixties are over. Ole Miss doesn't run a damned thing in Mississippi any more. The Oxford blue hairs are pissed that a younger generation of State fans won't toe the instate party line that the older MSU fans did for years, and I'm damned glad of that. What? They want a cookie for being "back?" Back where? Spotty NCs, never having competed for an SEC title, and one final four appearance. No Omaha since '71. Back. Laugh.My.Ass.Off.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
They want a cookie for winning 3 0f the last 8 Egg Bowls? Since I was born in 1986, they are 14-13 verses State. I'm supposed to bow to a one game lead in my life time? You just went winless in your own conference twice in the last five years. GTFO with that weak "flagship" shit. If OM is the flagship university, there is little wonder things in Mississippi are as jacked up as they are.
Oh, and don't even get me started on Historical Perception outside of sports. The Ghost of Ole Miss Documentary wasn't exactly flattering..........
That's the thing -- this isn't true, they just don't have any highly-visible public msg boards for this kind of crap to be seen and archived at. It's out there if you dig though.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Here is what they think about Markell Pack(now that Neal is saying he's not giving OM much of a shot): http://www.secrant.com/rant/display....39877204&pg=55
This is the same type of thing that they've slaughtered us on in the past.
I think this post may get posted at the top for awhile...we have gotten nearly double of the top 10 players in Mississippi that they have the last 2 years...Freezus aint working Mullen on anything...We've also won 8 of the last 9 Egg Bowls on Scott Field.Ask Eli about that ass-whoopin Kevin Fant gave him...home field in the Egg Bowl makes a huge difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie