The low-down on MSU baseball 2013.......

You all are going to look back and say, "You know, that mother f*cker Goat was right". I said this about football last fall and I'm saying it about baseball now. We are simply one year away. I know, I know, we lose this and that, blah blah blah. I've already hashed this out, during football season and a few weeks ago on this board about baseball, when I said we'd be a national seed next year. I get it, many people don't agree, but you're all going to find out during the 13/14 school year.

Whoever made the post comparing the two seasons made a valid point. We simply weren't good enough to beat the best teams. This year, in baseball, we are living off this RPI stuff. We've beaten Florida, that's it. Beat up on a bunch of average teams. Yes, we are above average, but we are simply a Top 25 team this year. I said differently earlier, but now the picture is clearer. Things could have been different had Evan Mitchell and Brandon Woodruff produced, but they didn't. It is what it is. I knew this team would rise or fall with Renfroe, and they have. But we just don't have all the tools to make a serious run.

We have veterans returning all key positions next year for both the football and baseball teams. Let's just let Ole Miss have their moment.....this was their year.

Just remember I said this a year from now.

I really want to drink what you're drinking on our football team for the fall, but I can't find it. I'm as optimistic about my sports teams as anyone, but next year in football I see a team that is going to scratch and claw for a sixth win on Thanksgiving night.

We lose way too much leadership on defense/offense (Banks, Slay, Boyd, Lawrence, entire WR corps) and we return a shitty offense. Color me surprised if we find a way to get 7 or 8 wins.

Goat...I hope you're right. I've been following MSU baseball for a long, long time. What I have found to be important over the years is not only talent, but a team having an identity. I've seen talented teams not produce and I've seen less talented teams find a way to having a successful season.

I haven't followed this team as closely as I have others and may be totally off base from what I'm about to say, but from what I've seen, we seem to not have the leadership on this years team to create that identity needed to get over the hump.

I look at the 2007 squad for comparison...the last team to make it to the World Series. There were one or two elite players on that team, but the rest were average college players. They however had the leadership, thus creating an identity, that made them over achieve. Take a look at that years line up and compare it to today's. Keep in mind the bats were different then, so don't just look at batting avg. Imagine what Renfroe would have accomplished with those bats.

Which team do you think would take 2 out of three?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Mi..._baseball_team

Good question. I'd probably go with 2007 because they had the intangibles like you said. Clutch hitting was the norm. We had veterans everywhere. That team stepped up and beat some people and got it done when they needed to. They went as far as their talent would allow them to go. This years team hasn't reached their potential, and I'm not sure if they have the maturity to step up and 'take' what's theirs.

Fair enough. I acknowledge the fact that I'm going out on a limb, contrary to popular opinion.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

You all are going to look back and say, "You know, that mother f*cker _______ was right".

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Copy and paste your name here. You too can join the Will James "Legend in your own mind" hall of fame.

Talking about mental preparedness Goat. About 7-8 of our players 10 minutes before the game were over talking to their boys in the stands.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

You all are going to look back and say, "You know, that mother f*cker Goat was right". I said this about football last fall and I'm saying it about baseball now. We are simply one year away. I know, I know, we lose this and that, blah blah blah. I've already hashed this out, during football season and a few weeks ago on this board about baseball, when I said we'd be a national seed next year. I get it, many people don't agree, but you're all going to find out during the 13/14 school year.

Whoever made the post comparing the two seasons made a valid point. We simply weren't good enough to beat the best teams. This year, in baseball, we are living off this RPI stuff. We've beaten Florida, that's it. Beat up on a bunch of average teams. Yes, we are above average, but we are simply a Top 25 team this year. I said differently earlier, but now the picture is clearer. Things could have been different had Evan Mitchell and Brandon Woodruff produced, but they didn't. It is what it is. I knew this team would rise or fall with Renfroe, and they have. But we just don't have all the tools to make a serious run.

We have veterans returning all key positions next year for both the football and baseball teams. Let's just let Ole Miss have their moment.....this was their year.

Just remember I said this a year from now.

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Let's see, we lose pollo, and Graveman. Not earth shattering losses, but still 2 solid pitchers. Then we lose renfroe, both catchers, and Frazier more than likely. I pray someone doesn't draft ct because his dad is eager beaver for him to go. We all know he won't be a big leaguer but it would be a big loss in the outfield added to renfroe. If woodruff comes back and pitches like he is capable and lindgren gets his head out of his ass then pitching wise we could be better. Offensively, we won't be better ad could possibly see a decent drop. Just can't see next year being the year. Regional team? Yes. Cws? No.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Let's see, we lose pollo, and Graveman. Not earth shattering losses, but still 2 solid pitchers. Then we lose renfroe, both catchers, and Frazier more than likely. I pray someone doesn't draft ct because his dad is eager beaver for him to go. We all know he won't be a big leaguer but it would be a big loss in the outfield added to renfroe. If woodruff comes back and pitches like he is capable and lindgren gets his head out of his ass then pitching wise we could be better. Offensively, we won't be better ad could possibly see a decent drop. Just can't see next year being the year. Regional team? Yes. Cws? No.

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We need a juco hitter like Stuart turner in the middle of our lineup.

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Originally Posted by Lumpy Chucklelips

Goat...I hope you're right. I've been following MSU baseball for a long, long time. What I have found to be important over the years is not only talent, but a team having an identity. I've seen talented teams not produce and I've seen less talented teams find a way to having a successful season.

I haven't followed this team as closely as I have others and may be totally off base from what I'm about to say, but from what I've seen, we seem to not have the leadership on this years team to create that identity needed to get over the hump.

I look at the 2007 squad for comparison...the last team to make it to the World Series. There were one or two elite players on that team, but the rest were average college players. They however had the leadership, thus creating an identity, that made them over achieve. Take a look at that years line up and compare it to today's. Keep in mind the bats were different then, so don't just look at batting avg. Imagine what Renfroe would have accomplished with those bats.

Which team do you think would take 2 out of three?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Mi..._baseball_team

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At what point were you convinced that 2007 team had the "it" factor? When they lost 8 of the last 10 -- including 2 and out in the SEC tournament -- before heading to Tallahassee?

Point being -- "it" factor can almost only be judged in the post season.

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Originally Posted by Msstate7

We need a juco hitter like Stuart turner in the middle of our lineup.

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Well we signed Vickerson and a juco catcher (I'm at a loss for his name at the moment) who isnt turner. Doubt there is a Turner out there at this point. He's special.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Well we signed Vickerson and a juco catcher (I'm at a loss for his name at the moment) who isnt turner. Doubt there is a Turner out there at this point. He's special.

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That he is. Hopefully vickerson and the catcher produce. If we find some offense, I think we could have a big year next season. I like the pitching pieces we have assuming woodruff can perform like he should

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Well we signed Vickerson and a juco catcher (I'm at a loss for his name at the moment) who isnt turner. Doubt there is a Turner out there at this point. He's special.

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He can hit for average. He's pretty much Jarrod Parks as a catcher.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Well we signed Vickerson and a juco catcher (I'm at a loss for his name at the moment) who isnt turner. Doubt there is a Turner out there at this point. He's special.

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Cody Walker is the JUCO catcher we have signed. He's Mitch Slauter 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Let's see, we lose pollo, and Graveman. Not earth shattering losses, but still 2 solid pitchers. Then we lose renfroe, both catchers, and Frazier more than likely. I pray someone doesn't draft ct because his dad is eager beaver for him to go. We all know he won't be a big leaguer but it would be a big loss in the outfield added to renfroe. If woodruff comes back and pitches like he is capable and lindgren gets his head out of his ass then pitching wise we could be better. Offensively, we won't be better ad could possibly see a decent drop. Just can't see next year being the year. Regional team? Yes. Cws? No.

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Well CT's Dad ought to back off and let CT enjoy his college career to the biggest extent possible. His MSU days will likely be the highlight of his baseball life unless he is going to enjoy bouncing around the minors for a while until he ends up doing something else for a living. IMO, I don't think CT has the physical tools to be a major league player. If I'm wrong good for him but I don't see it, he's a good, not great, college player but a diminutive guy like him needs to hit for a high average or have great speed to make an impact in the majors.

I just don't see enough offensive production for an mlb outfielder.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Well CT's Dad ought to back off and let CT enjoy his college career to the biggest extent possible. His MSU days will likely be the highlight of his baseball life unless he is going to enjoy bouncing around the minors for a while until he ends up doing something else for a living. IMO, I don't think CT has the physical tools to be a major league player. If I'm wrong good for him but I don't see it, he's a good, not great, college player but a diminutive guy like him needs to hit for a high average or have great speed to make an impact in the majors.

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He also needs to prove that he is healthy.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

Well CT's Dad ought to back off and let CT enjoy his college career to the biggest extent possible. His MSU days will likely be the highlight of his baseball life unless he is going to enjoy bouncing around the minors for a while until he ends up doing something else for a living. IMO, I don't think CT has the physical tools to be a major league player. If I'm wrong good for him but I don't see it, he's a good, not great, college player but a diminutive guy like him needs to hit for a high average or have great speed to make an impact in the majors.

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Pretty spot on with that assessment.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

He also needs to prove that he is healthy.

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He also needs to look like he has a brain at the plate. I remember 2 ab's just today swinging first pitch in the dirt. He refuses to take a walk. His 7.5 BB% is lowest on the team of people with >32 at bats.

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Originally Posted by Will James

He also needs to look like he has a brain at the plate. I remember 2 ab's just today swinging first pitch in the dirt. He refuses to take a walk. His 7.5 BB% is lowest on the team of people with >32 at bats.

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Remember when we had Frazier and ct 1 and 2 in the lineup? I see why we don't now

As regards leadership, I would concede Lumpy's point. Based on my limited first hand observation this year, I haven't seen any of the older, better players step forward consistently when the pressure's on, either by example or verbally. After last year, I thought Frazier might be the guy to do it but, if anything, he seems to have taken a step back. The best example of this kind of leadership I can recall having seen was by Will Clark in his last year (and, yea, I realize it's an unjust example). I was lucky enough to have a seat behind the State dugout at a road game, and we were behind by a couple to a team we should have been beating. Well, we get a guy on base, then Clark steps up and delivers the long ball. Impressive, but that's what everyone expected from Clark anyhow. What was most impressive was what happened after he crossed the plate. He comes over in front of the MSU dugout, gets in everyone's face and yells "Come on, we can beat these guys. I want them to know who we are and what we can do!" The change in attitude was immediate and palpable. From that point on it was all MSU and we won going away. I haven't personally seen an example of that kind of leadership since.