Engie....on the baseball stadium......

I read that thread on 6-pack, and if you are trying to correlate winning championships to arms races (stadium and facilities), you're going to get worked.

2013: UCLA plays in a shit hole that seats like 41 people
2012: Arizona plays at freaking Hi Corbett Field
2011 and 2010: Do you really think South Carolina's program was built at Carolina Stadium? Go research Ray Tanner. Notice they played for the title in 2002 or somewhere around there.
2009: LSU, it has been pointed out that their program was not built at Alex Box
2008: Fresno, WTF
2007 and 2006: Oregon State. Goss Stadium baby, Jackson Prep would be jealous
2005: Texas - here's your first real nice stadium, but shit, they are Texas
Can't remember any further

Look, a new baseball stadium will be nice. I'm all for it if they want to do it. I most definitely want it to be more friendly to casual fans and students. But let's not act like Dudy Noble is holding us back. It helps more than it hurts, I assure you of this.

I will say this - maybe it will be about the arms race going forward. I personally think it's all about fan support. Whatever it takes to keep that part high, I'm all for it.

You just jumped out of the boat and missed the water.

Congrats, Goat -- as usual...

No, I didn't. You contradicted yourself. I was attempting to be nice to you and let you know the error of what you said without actually saying it.

We're going to build a new stadium. For the life of me, I can't understand why this bothers people

I want to understand why people say we HAVE to have this thing, and have to have it now.

my concern is them messing up the LFL.

How do you screw up the #1 place in America to watch a baseball game? You "fix" it.

why do we have to have a new stadium? why can't they just make improvements to what we have?

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

my concern is them messing up the LFL.

How do you screw up the #1 place in America to watch a baseball game? You "fix" it.

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THIS.....ALL DAY LONG !!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by jumbo

why do we have to have a new stadium? why can't they just make improvements to what we have?

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This topic has been beaten to its absolute death. The question is not, do we have to have a new stadium? The question is, will it be better for us? The answer to that is undoubtedly yes, I don't know how anyone could question that.

There is nothing sacred about Dudy Noble Field. We had plenty of success before it was ever built, and it is now behind the times. The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

So if we have the ability to couple that with the best facility in the country, why not do it?

I guess then I'm with Hack...I just would hate seeing the LFL screwed up.

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Originally Posted by jumbo

I guess then I'm with Hack...I just would hate seeing the LFL screwed up.

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As long as it doesn't go away, how would you screw it up? People act like building some permanent structures out there completely changes it. As long as the fans keep showing up and doing what they do, it will remain the same.

If you just had the current structures out there with no people on them, it would suck. Similarly, if you have different structures but with the same people, it won't suck.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

No, I didn't. You contradicted yourself. I was attempting to be nice to you and let you know the error of what you said without actually saying it.

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No, I didn't. You are just too stupid to understand what was a very simple point -- as evidenced by the fact you can't even respond to me on a board that is damn near impossible to get banned on -- yet you do -- on the reg.

Nowhere did I say a new stadium was a 100% precursor to us winning. I said it was a precursor to us "being the Jones's" again. Those are two different things -- and if you made an effort to be anything other than the biggest dumbass in MSU message board history -- you could easily see that.

But, hey, I still think the concrete of Dudy Noble is sacred and untouchable** Only took you how many years of arguing with me on that fact to accept reality? Yet YOU know what you are talking about**

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Originally Posted by smootness

The thing that makes State baseball special is the fans, and they aren't going anywhere. It isn't the stadium, it isn't the current structures in the LFL, it is the fans, plain and simple.

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In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium? After all, it's the fans not the stadium (and I agree). Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

40 million dollars doesn't grow on trees, I don't care what network deal we get or what any other young, entitled spoiled brat thinks we deserve. If we have all this money, why do they keep the Bulldog Club open? Seems like chump change to me. Oh.....I know why. Because all that money from the networks is going to the price of doing business in the SEC - salaries, ALL facilities (not just baseball), etc. We're not going to have bags of cash laying around.

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.

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So, it should be left alone to wither away then?

Sorry -- I disagree with 100% of what you said here.

And they aren't going to mess up LFL.

You turn into a flat out ****** when you get proven wrong.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

the LFL has a culture about it. That's what makes it special. It's not the lack of a permanent structure or the current rigs that are out there. It's the people and the comradity that make it special. The problem becomes that if you take away the old school rigs, the people will not be happy. If the people are not happy, they will not return by the thousands every weekend to partake in something that's unique and special. lose the rigs, lose the fans, lose the comradity.

And for anyone saying DNF is not sacred, you're wrong. it's sacred to thousands of fans.

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its unknown what the fans would do but I agree it would hurt the atmosphere if the rigs go away and they become built in structures instead of rigs. Not to mention if they jump the price too high.

The rigs are special because they are owned and are individual to the people who sit on them and made them. its about the special touches of individualism and history that everyone who sits out there loves. Its the friendships you have made with your neighboring rigs (even if its a Frat), It's your home at the ballpark.

Scott better not **** it up.
Change is coming though.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

I want to understand why people say we HAVE to have this thing, and have to have it now.

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I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

You turn into a flat out ****** when you get proven wrong.

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"Proven wrong"? Hilarious.

You turn into a flat moron when proven stupid. Then again -- that doesn't require my assistance...

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

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dead on

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

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And that's ultimately what's gong to happen.

More chairbacks and more premium options -- and a better overall experience...

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

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Great post, and I laughed especially hard at your comparison. Well done.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

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/\/\ THIS /\/\

Serious question. Was there some announcement or new development as far as DNF or a new stadium is concerned? Haven't been here in a few days and there's a few threads going on about it so did something happen or are people just talking about it to talk about it??

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

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I agree completely. I rarely go to baseball games unless someone gives or sells me chairbacks because of the crappy bleachers. If I hadn't gotten chairbacks this past Saturday I probably wouldn't have gone. My daughter wanted to go Sunday so we sat in the bleachers, which were pretty jammed up. I think even worse than the discomfort of the seat and having to turn to watch the game was looking at all the empty seats in the grandstands that we couldn't sit in.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium? After all, it's the fans not the stadium (and I agree). Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

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DNF is no longer a top facility; some may not want to hear that, but it's absolutely true. The reason we keep being considered a great venue to watch a game is for the atmosphere and the fans. As long as that remains, it will continue to be a great venue regardless of the actual structure.

Why do we need to update the structure? To prove that we care about baseball and because it's needed. Why did Yankee Stadium get replaced? Because the old stadium was a pile of crap and it needed to be replaced. Building the new stadium didn't change anything about the experience of watching a game in NYC, except that now fans are more comfortable watching games there.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We need a new stadium because we need more chair backs and to get rid of those awful bleachers.

Only thing LFL needs is to become more safe

Thats the bottom line

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This^

I get that safety is an issue and we can't continue to get around addressing that. Bleachers should tap out and make an exit, and extend grandstand. That means more chairbacks please. In a few bleacher seats you can't even see home plate.

I agree with Hack on not screwing up LFL though. He mentioned the culture, which is a more succint way to put it than my comment in another thread about how LFL combines tailgating with watching a game inside the stadium. That IS what is part of what creates the unique atmosphere. Yeah, some people are alway gonna be hacked off if you piss on their party, but I don't think that's what we're talking about with the negative risk here.

Let me put on my tinfoil hat here. I don't wanna see a "negative" perfect storm. This is unlikely, but don't underestimate how damaging the culture IF it was (not purposely of course) timed with a couple of bad and frustrating seasons COMBINED with more TV exposure (the number of televised games is only going to grow and grow and grow) might set us back a decade in support and therefore even some in recruiting. Don't underestimate the power of taking away a kid's favorite toy to replace it with a sucky one. They may just play with something else (watch on tv). This is just an example. I'm trying to flesh out and put into words why a lot of us don't want to mess with something that's not broken except for safety concerns.

I would consider changing nothing except get VERY strict with safety and fire code.

If we must "fix" it, then no LFL concrete (grandstand), no bleachers. Build several DIFFERENT types of "riglike" structures out of extremely high quality treated wood so it may retain the rig feel rather than bleachers or grandstand.

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Originally Posted by smootness

DNF is no longer a top facility; some may not want to hear that, but it's absolutely true. The reason we keep being considered a great venue to watch a game is for the atmosphere and the fans. As long as that remains, it will continue to be a great venue regardless of the actual structure.

Why do we need to update the structure? To prove that we care about baseball and because it's needed. Why did Yankee Stadium get replaced? Because the old stadium was a pile of crap and it needed to be replaced. Building the new stadium didn't change anything about the experience of watching a game in NYC, except that now fans are more comfortable watching games there.

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15K crowds already prove we care about baseball

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Originally Posted by BulldogBear

I agree with Hack on not screwing up LFL though. He mentioned the culture, which is a more succint way to put it than my comment in another thread about how LFL combines tailgating with watching a game inside the stadium. That IS what is part of what creates the unique atmosphere. Yeah, some people are alway gonna be hacked off if you piss on their party, but I don't think that's what we're talking about with the negative risk here.

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And making some changes doesn't at all remove the fact that you will still be combining tailgating with watching the game inside the stadium.

Everyone close to the program agrees that big changes need to be made to DNF. I think some think that by 'big changes' that means make it a completely different things, but all it really means is making it modern and a better overall place to watch games.

Just to talk about it. At least from my viewpoint.

Address the money issue.

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season. Can't make decisions based on exceptions, that's what Ole Miss does.

Wow, we're still arguing about this?

We need a new grandstand/stadium. Period. PDS isn't a major hinderance NOW, but wait until Bama and UGA finish with what they're doing. With the advancement of baseball stadium architecture in the past 25 years, there's no possible way for us to make DNF/PDS an elite college ballpark again without starting over.

Take dynamite to the grandstand- anything less is a half-assed, lipstick on a pig renovation.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

I LOVE MSU baseball. I got engaged in the RF lounge. I sat in some shitastic bleachers on Saturday where I couldn't see home plate. The bleachers is either not seeing home plate or having a horrible crick in your neck from being twisted the entire game. If you don't sit in the chairbacks or actually know someone who has a rig in the outfield, Dudy Noble sucks to actually watch a game. Especially since 99.9% of people that don't have a chairback can't sit there.

This is like trying to put paint on a car that doesn't have AC or a radio but you love it because you got laid in the backseat. New people thinks your car sucks, a paint job won't change that.

I don't know how anyone that has ever sat in the bleachers thinks the stadium can be fixed without TNT.

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Absolutely perfect post.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season. Can't make decisions based on exceptions, that's what Ole Miss does.

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Why not get the best we can possibly get rather than just putting lipstick on it and telling everyone to be ok with it?

What is the hesitation with rebuilding? It is an older structure that has aged even quicker than anticipated. It is now among the worst structures in the entire conference. Why be ok with that?

And what is the money issue? If we have the money, we have the money. What would be a better use of that money?

I don't want to put lipstick on a pig. But we do need to consider the 'do-nothing' alternative. I wouldn't do anything based on 'what we deserve'. We don't deserve shit, we've never even won a national title. If we can make money with this thing, I'm all for it. But I don't want to go broke doing it. Show me the money. And not some bullshit data that engie thunk up one day while sitting in his lonely glow of his cubicle. Some of our fans bitch about the Farm Bureau sign, have you seen the 14 signs behind Alex Box's plate? Tony's and all kinds of stuff. That's what this is going to be. How can we guarantee we won't suck in 5 years and attendance goes away? We need to win big first and CEMENT our fanbase. We're a damn fickle bunch, I know. I was there during Polk II, 2009 and 2010. Actually THIS year is the first year our attendance has been respectable again. Not last year, outside SBW and Regionals. LSU and Carolina fill their shit up for EVERY series.

I want to see the numbers before I go all in on an idea. SECN money? BC? Corporation donations? No one knows (not even engine). That's probably also why we're not seeing a huge push to make this happen overnight, like so many think.

On the stadium, of course I'd like to have a brand new awesome stadium, who wouldn't. Don't put words in my mouth to try and argue.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

In that same breath, why do we need a new stadium?

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Why did we need to bowl in the football stadium? We could have just brought in some bigger bleachers to accommodate everyone. It won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**
Why did we need to build basketball and football practice facilities? It's not like the football team will be any better because of it. These things won't help us win any games. What a total waste of money.**

You build new facilities to elevate your program, attract recruits, accommodate fans, etc. Technically we don't NEED a new baseball stadium- just like we didn't NEED to bowl in the football stadium or build new practice facilities. No, these facility upgrades don't directly impact wins and losses, but they do impact the prestige/level of your program- which in turn does affect wins and losses.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

Why the huge push for a brand new stadium when we're still a top facility and the consensus NUMBER ONE venue to watch a college baseball game?

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DNF/PDS is absolutely, positively NOT a top facility. Not even close.

Yes, if you have connections, it is a fantastic place to watch baseball. The problem is, new fans don't have connections- thus their experience is awful. This is why most of the people who love MSU baseball are older. They got in on a sweetheart, good ole boy deal and have unintentionally shut out the majority of the next generation of MSU fans.

Don't get me wrong, I love our older fans, but we need to have a spot for new fans too. And finding/making a spot for new fans will be extremely difficult if we try to keep the current grandstand.

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Originally Posted by Goat Holder

So why again is this something that cannot be fixed by allowing people to come into the grandstand at any time? Yeah, some will still be inconvenienced during SBW and Regionals, but damn, that's like 10% of the season.

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No

You have many people that would buy chairbacks that cant now with more seating
You also have people that absolutely refuse to come to baseball games because they would have to sit in the bleachers.

Families of 4-5 arent driving an hour or two to Sville on the "hope" they might be able to get into the Grandstand. We lose paying customers every weekend because of this.