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Consider this jewel from Wisconsin Reb:

no school other than OM would have put up with Bianco this long. It's sad. Real sad. The tools are in place to field a national championship team. But the desire is apparently lacking.

So the BearSharks haven't been to Omaha in over 40 years (over 50 years if you discount the Swimming Team's appearance in the early 1970's). Yet they have all the tools in place for a National Champion.

If there weren't nine other teams in the SEC during the late 1960's, Charlie Shira would have had a dynasty.***

Please fire Bianco

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Please fire Bianco

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You know if they do, Louisville's coach will come running**

No weaknesses- so it must be Bianco

It's a lot more difficult to win in baseball at Ole Miss than they think/realize. They've been spoiled by the Polk II era. The only way that the recruit well enough to build a program that is elite nationally is to clean up the best in Mississippi every year. The only way that happens is if we pass on a bunch of the top players in state. In Memphis they have to compete with us, Tennessee, Vandy, Memphis, and Arkansas for talent and the city gets split up.

It's also going to get even more difficult the more success we have plus the fact that we have an impending basically new stadium coming in the near future.

It's not a coincidence that Ole Miss started to decline and we started to improve markedly during Cohen's third year.

No doubt Todd, they basically owned the state at that time. Especially all the big time talent comin out of Jackson at the time. They had their shot at doing great things with those teams. But now that we are actually recruiting again things have changed.

The Bianco situation is almost identical to the Stans situation except Bianco appears to still have the respect of his players. I hope they fire him for their own sake...he is a very good coach and will land on his feet and be successful.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's a lot more difficult to win in baseball at Ole Miss than they think/realize. They've been spoiled by the Polk II era. The only way that the recruit well enough to build a program that is elite nationally is to clean up the best in Mississippi every year. The only way that happens is if we pass on a bunch of the top players in state. In Memphis they have to compete with us, Tennessee, Vandy, Memphis, and Arkansas for talent and the city gets split up.

It's also going to get even more difficult the more success we have plus the fact that we have an impending basically new stadium coming in the near future.

It's not a coincidence that Ole Miss started to decline and we started to improve markedly during Cohen's third year.

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I'll never forgive Polk for Head & Power wearing Red & Blue instead of Maroon & White.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

I'll never forgive Polk for Head & Power wearing Red & Blue instead of Maroon & White.

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I never have either.

Our 2005 team would have had Easley, Head, Rea, Moreland, maybe Pettway, maybe Cozart- it just disgusts me.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

I'll never forgive Polk for Head & Power wearing Red & Blue instead of Maroon & White.

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I'm with you on head, big time. But I saw power as a high school player and I wouldn't have signed him either. He didn't run like his brother. And unfortunately, threw like his brother. I know he had a nice career there, but I don't think we made an error in evaluation. But after his career I understand the frustration.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I never have either.

Our 2005 team would have had Easley, Head, Rea, Moreland, maybe Pettway, maybe Cozart- it just disgusts me.

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Now not signing pettway was stupid. Plain stupid. I talked to a person on the staff about him at the time, I said he was the best hs hitter I had seen for years. The response was, we have lots of guys just like him. Uh huh! At the time I hadn't seen him pitch, had I known that, I would have shot them for not pursuing him. Major major failure. Mac was head coach at the time this convo took place.

No maybe to cozart. But as Ive heard it told that one was on shoenrock.

And I agree about power. He ended up way better than one would have ever thought after watching him in HS. he peaked at just the right time and became a good college hitter.

they'll feel a lot better when they let go and admit that we dominate the big 3 now. It's been that way since Keenum arrived and it's not going to change so long as he's at State IMO.

We just split with them during the regular season in basketball while having the worst year we've had in decades.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's a lot more difficult to win in baseball at Ole Miss than they think/realize. They've been spoiled by the Polk II era. The only way that the recruit well enough to build a program that is elite nationally is to clean up the best in Mississippi every year. The only way that happens is if we pass on a bunch of the top players in state. In Memphis they have to compete with us, Tennessee, Vandy, Memphis, and Arkansas for talent and the city gets split up.

It's also going to get even more difficult the more success we have plus the fact that we have an impending basically new stadium coming in the near future.

It's not a coincidence that Ole Miss started to decline and we started to improve markedly during Cohen's third year.

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In my opinion they are not mentally tough enough to do anything. They never have been and they never will as long as they keep their current coach. It all goes back to him.
Last year we did not have the most talented team and neither did UCLA but both teams were mentally tough and never gave up. They both just kept on pushing it and it paid off. That will never happen at Ole Miss.
I know Cohen is a hot head and probably swears a little too much but I think that translate to the team and it makes them tough. I think it’s the same way with Mullen and the football team. Many MSU teams coach by someone else would have packed it in last year but those guys were just mentally tough and found a way to win their last three games to get to a winning season. The jury is still out on Freeze.

Mullen and Cohen are not the most polish guys in the world and lord knows they are not great speakers but I will take them over the two Ole Miss has any day.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I'm with you on head, big time. But I saw power as a high school player and I wouldn't have signed him either. He didn't run like his brother. And unfortunately, threw like his brother. I know he had a nice career there, but I don't think we made an error in evaluation. But after his career I understand the frustration.

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You've lost your mind.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

And I agree about power. He ended up way better than one would have ever thought after watching him in HS. he peaked at just the right time and became a good college hitter.

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No. Sorry.

Of the group that came through, Logan was either the best or second best natural hitter. I'm talking -- turning Les Dykes 95 mph fastballs around and fouling them off to the pull side as an 8th grader. He was a no doubt prospect from the time he was 14. His size is all that prevented him from being projectable to the next level.

It always seems to be like Bianco recruits elite players...the problem being that they all get drafted and go pro instead of going to Ole Miss. On the other hand, Cohen signs talented players on the cusp of being elite and gets them to come to campus. Then, he develops them and makes them into higher draft picks.

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Originally Posted by DCdawg

It always seems to be like Bianco recruits elite players...the problem being that they all get drafted and go pro instead of going to Ole Miss. On the other hand, Cohen signs talented players on the cusp of being elite and gets them to come to campus. Then, he develops them and makes them into higher draft picks.

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Agreed, all they have to do is point to all the prospects we have made. "You're good, but we can make you great." Is basically what we tell them every time. Just compare the draft stock of every player we get in high school and compare it to where he ends up after he's done here. Doesn't hurt that we have one of the elite programs.

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Originally Posted by engie

No. Sorry.

Of the group that came through, Logan was either the best or second best natural hitter. I'm talking -- turning Les Dykes 95 mph fastballs around and fouling them off to the pull side as an 8th grader. He was a no doubt prospect from the time he was 14. His size is all that prevented him from being projectable to the next level.

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There were a lot...and I mean A LOT of big time guys coming thru central mississippi at that time. Similar to what we're seeing in the NW part of the state now, if not more so. And I can tell you first hand that without question he was not near the top of that list. To his credit he actually became one of the better college players out of that bunch.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

There were a lot...and I mean A LOT of big time guys coming thru central mississippi at that time. Similar to what we're seeing in the NW part of the state now, if not more so. And I can tell you first hand that without question he was not near the top of that list. To his credit he actually became one of the better college players out of that bunch.

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You think he magically became a "better" college player on day 1 at Ole Miss? He hit .328 as a true freshman -- and hit 11 bombs as a soph. You think Bianco "developed" him in college unlike almost anyone else that ever played there? No. Fact is -- he was basically as good of player on day 1 as he was when he left -- like practically every player that came out of HC during that era.

"You can tell me first hand without question"? What would I know**

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Originally Posted by engie

You think he magically became a "better" college player on day 1 at Ole Miss? He hit .328 as a true freshman -- and hit 11 bombs as a soph. You think Bianco "developed" him in college unlike almost anyone else that ever played there? No. Fact is -- he was basically as good of player on day 1 as he was when he left -- like practically every player that came out of HC during that era.

"You can tell me first hand without question"? What would I know**

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_...-qs0y-37kb.jpg

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Congratulations on being a private school all star...

I won't get into a pissing match with you about this, especially when I'm not even being negative in any way so the point is pointless.

BTW me and you use to run with some of the same crowd back in the day. Pretty funny

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Originally Posted by engie

You think he magically became a "better" college player on day 1 at Ole Miss? He hit .328 as a true freshman -- and hit 11 bombs as a soph. You think Bianco "developed" him in college unlike almost anyone else that ever played there? No. Fact is -- he was basically as good of player on day 1 as he was when he left -- like practically every player that came out of HC during that era.

"You can tell me first hand without question"? What would I know**

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I don't have a problem w a differing opinion, but it doesn't change mine. However, Logan power didn't hit 328 as a true fr. He was redshirted his tr fr year.

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

Mullen and Cohen are not the most polish guys in the world and lord knows they are not great speakers but I will take them over the two Ole Miss has any day.

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Wait a minute... You mean to tell me that you wouldn't take Rev. Beaver in a heartbeat? Wait till the Ole Miss faithful hear about this.

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Originally Posted by Fader21

Wait a minute... You mean to tell me that you wouldn't take Rev. Beaver in a heartbeat? Wait till the Ole Miss faithful hear about this.

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I would rather have Butch Davis then Freeze. At lest with him you know who you have. I don't trust Freeze and I think he is a fake christian.

I'm not trying to get in a "pissing match" with you about it -- I'm just strongly disagreeing with your sentiment on one player. My point was simply that if there is one single thing in sports that I actually know the most about -- it is this specific situation -- and this specific group of players.

Of the whole bunch that came through at that point in time, Logan Power was WAY more of a "can't miss" college prospect than a question mark. Of the HC crew, only Head(as a pitcher) was I as confident would find success in the SEC coming out. Everyone had a good idea that Smitty could -- but no one knew for sure if he was primarily going to focus on football, basketball, or baseball coming out of highschool(yes, Rod Barnes talked with him about the third option as well). Logan has like 30 Ole Miss hitting records now. It seems silly to short sell him as a prospect.

THIS! DAMN IT. THIS!

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's a lot more difficult to win in baseball at Ole Miss than they think/realize. They've been spoiled by the Polk II era. The only way that the recruit well enough to build a program that is elite nationally is to clean up the best in Mississippi every year. The only way that happens is if we pass on a bunch of the top players in state. In Memphis they have to compete with us, Tennessee, Vandy, Memphis, and Arkansas for talent and the city gets split up.

It's also going to get even more difficult the more success we have plus the fact that we have an impending basically new stadium coming in the near future.

It's not a coincidence that Ole Miss started to decline and we started to improve markedly during Cohen's third year.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I don't have a problem w a differing opinion, but it doesn't change mine. However, Logan power didn't hit 328 as a true fr. He was redshirted his tr fr year.

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Medical...I had forgotten about that.

You are welcome to your opinion -- I just disagree based on the absolutely huge sample size I had involving him -- and really all of the central MS prospects of that era.

The bottom line is -- Polk/McMahon and Raffo absolutely shat the bed in recruiting for a NUMBER of years there. Once Stephen and Pettway went to Ole Miss and had success, that pipeline was secured until it dried up...

Don't forget former MSU player Shane Kelly was the head coach at Hillcrest that sent that talent to Oxford.

Edited to add: I'm not blaming Kelly on actually sending them there. I'm aggravated that he didn't say, "Hey Polk, these guys are the real deal. I don't give a damn if they camped or not. You need to sign them pronto or the Rebels will and they will take over the momentum in the state and you will be out of a job in 3 years."

I don't feel like I was short selling him. I'm just goin off things I remember seeing with my own eyes. No doubt you had a closer look so I won't argue with your opinion but mine won't change either.

Maybe he was misjudged by many, maybe it was his size, but I was surprised that he had the success he had at ole miss...again, no slight at all there.

I would have been less shocked if he had been an all American on the golf course vs his solid college baseball career.

Engie, on another note, since we both played with and against many of the top players in the area during that time I would be interested to hear who you thought the best of that group was?

Some had huge ceilings they never reached on the next level and some busted thru their percieved potential. But there were definitely some that struck fear at the HS level above and beyond the others. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Jacksondevildog

Don't forget former MSU player Shane Kelly was the head coach at Hillcrest that sent that talent to Oxford.

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That ship sailed long before Shane got that head coaching job -- and I'm no huge Shane Kelly fan. Let's not forget that Coach Wy also was a GA under Polk at MSU...

No Hillcrest players were ever pushed in any way to that or any other school honestly. As fun as that conspiracy may be. Fact is -- at the time -- Ole Miss was the MORE ATTRACTIVE OPTION. Dan McDonnell was at HC twice a week at least recruiting, was constantly accessible, etc...for years... The only time Polk, McMahon, Raffo, Shoenrock, etc were around was at regional showcases(State Games) and/or the MSU baseball camp, where they were pretty snobbish and unapproachable unless you were one of "their guys". They were lazy as hell on the recruiting trail -- and it ultimately costed them their jobs and in some ways their legacies.

Stephen never had a committable offer from MSU. Polk asked him to come official visit during football season -- with no guarantee of ever getting an offer -- while OM and USCe both wanted an answer from him in June/July. Waiting on MSU would have been burning all of his other bridges. In that manner, Polk never gave MSU any chance. Once Stephen signed with Ole Miss and went off as a freshman -- right on the heels of Seth's SEC Freshman of the Year performance -- everyone with HC hats were treated like rock stars in Oxford and outcasts in Starkville -- and the baseball pipeline was set for that era...

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Originally Posted by engie

That ship sailed long before Shane got that head coaching job -- and I'm no huge Shane Kelly fan. Let's not forget that Coach Wy also was a GA under Polk at MSU...

No Hillcrest players were ever pushed in any way to that or any other school honestly. As fun as that conspiracy may be. Fact is -- at the time -- Ole Miss was the MORE ATTRACTIVE OPTION. Dan McDonnell was at HC twice a week at least recruiting, was constantly accessible, etc...for years... The only time Polk, McMahon, Raffo, Shoenrock, etc were around was at regional showcases(State Games) and/or the MSU baseball camp, where they were pretty snobbish and unapproachable unless you were one of "their guys". They were lazy as hell on the recruiting trail -- and it ultimately costed them their jobs and in some ways their legacies.

Stephen never had a committable offer from MSU. Polk asked him to come official visit during football season -- with no guarantee of ever getting an offer -- while OM and USCe both wanted an answer from him in June/July. Waiting on MSU would have been burning all of his other bridges. In that manner, Polk never gave MSU any chance. Once Stephen signed with Ole Miss and went off as a freshman -- right on the heels of Seth's SEC Freshman of the Year performance -- everyone with HC hats were treated like rock stars in Oxford and outcasts in Starkville -- and the baseball pipeline was set for that era...

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Damn, that's just depressing...

It's crazy to think how different both UM and MSU's programs would be today had we shown those guys the interest they deserved. UM probably would have never made that run, might not have done that renovation to their stadium, wouldn't have the fan support/interest they have now, etc.

Then again, if those guys had come here, Tommy Raffo might be our coach today instead of John Cohen. You never know.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Engie, on another note, since we both played with and against many of the top players in the area during that time I would be interested to hear who you thought the best of that group was?

Some had huge ceilings they never reached on the next level and some busted thru their percieved potential. But there were definitely some that struck fear at the HS level above and beyond the others. Thoughts?

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Man, that's a great question. I'll have to think about it more in depth and get back to you...

At that snapshot of time in high school, I thought Micah Schilling was probably the best offensively I'd seen. He was the only player I'd played with at the HS level that could go full fledged cocky on the level of Beau Gentry(in Trouble with the Curve) and still dominate. Of course, that kind of stuff didn't fly for "us" -- so I don't know who else may have had that capability. And my sample size with him was pretty small overall.

The best on the hill was probably a push between Les Dykes and Zach Grienke -- although I only saw Grienke once. I put both of them a notch above Tankersly in high school(and Tony Sipp deserves to be on this level as well from JUCO)...and down from there to Pope, Head, Goskowski, etc... Stephen played in Iowa the summer between his JR and SR years -- and as soon as he came back, I knew he would be very successful on the hill in college -- but his "stuff" just wasn't quite what some of those other guys had. What Stephen had was a great mentality on the mound, craftiness, and tremendous command of 4 pitches.

Just based on what they did in high school I would have to say pope is the best high school guy I saw at that time. He could do it all. Tatum was a beast and that Hattiesburg team with he and grant was quite intimidating. As were the tankersley pettway teams at WC. of course this type of list would useless without head and gostkowski. The times I saw dykes he was not dominant.

Different folks different opinions, but I'd take tankersly over dykes. To be fair I only saw dykes once and he was pedestrian on that day. I saw Taylor 3-4 times and he was dominant every time w great command. One was a 1-0 showdown w Madison and gostkowski at Madison. Great game.
Eta, I take back that it was gostkowski, it might have been the lefty Madison had at the time, I've gone blank as to his name Rob????Either way great game.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Different folks different opinions, but I'd take tankersly over dykes. To be fair I only saw dykes once and he was pedestrian on that day. I saw Taylor 3-4 times and he was dominant every time w great command. One was a 1-0 showdown w Madison and gostkowski at Madison. Great game.
Eta, I take back that it was gostkowski, it might have been the lefty Madison had at the time, I've gone blank as to his name Rob????Either way great game.

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You may be thinking of bogue. He was an ole miss signee but never did much. He was good but no where near the level of tankersley.

As far as being just flat out crafty pigott would have to be there. He did more with less than anybody I can recall in the state at that time.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

You may be thinking of bogue. He was an ole miss signee but never did much. He was good but no where near the level of tankersley.

As far as being just flat out crafty pigott would have to be there. He did more with less than anybody I can recall in the state at that time.

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I don't think the guy I'm thinking of signed d1. It will hit me. And I wasn't in anyway comparing him to tankersly, was just saying they had a pitchers duel and was a great game.

It for sure wasn't bogue. Didn't like him at all.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I don't think the guy I'm thinking of signed d1. It will hit me. And I wasn't in anyway comparing him to tankersly, was just saying they had a pitchers duel and was a great game.

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Rob Blackledge.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Rob Blackledge.

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Yep that's him.

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Originally Posted by engie

That ship sailed long before Shane got that head coaching job -- and I'm no huge Shane Kelly fan. Let's not forget that Coach Wy also was a GA under Polk at MSU...

No Hillcrest players were ever pushed in any way to that or any other school honestly. As fun as that conspiracy may be. Fact is -- at the time -- Ole Miss was the MORE ATTRACTIVE OPTION. Dan McDonnell was at HC twice a week at least recruiting, was constantly accessible, etc...for years... The only time Polk, McMahon, Raffo, Shoenrock, etc were around was at regional showcases(State Games) and/or the MSU baseball camp, where they were pretty snobbish and unapproachable unless you were one of "their guys". They were lazy as hell on the recruiting trail -- and it ultimately costed them their jobs and in some ways their legacies.

Stephen never had a committable offer from MSU. Polk asked him to come official visit during football season -- with no guarantee of ever getting an offer -- while OM and USCe both wanted an answer from him in June/July. Waiting on MSU would have been burning all of his other bridges. In that manner, Polk never gave MSU any chance. Once Stephen signed with Ole Miss and went off as a freshman -- right on the heels of Seth's SEC Freshman of the Year performance -- everyone with HC hats were treated like rock stars in Oxford and outcasts in Starkville -- and the baseball pipeline was set for that era...

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If people had opened their eyes, they would have noticed that Hillcrest wasn't the only place that was happening when Polk was around. Jarrod Parks from MC was a dandy dozen player and opted to go to Meridian and actually was committed to Tulane before Cohen swooped in at the last minute and got him for us.

When Polk was around there was a joke among people in Mississippi that goes "How do you get a baseball scholarship to MSU?" And then you shrug your shoulders. Sometimes people would go to the camp and Polk would completely blow them off. He literally expected the program to recruit itself. But even then his decisions were puzzling to say the least a lot of times. Louis Coleman? JUCO fodder.