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don't worry guys. everything is fine.***
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don't worry guys. everything is fine.***
So you keep telling us**
I honestly hope you and C34 are right about this one.
Bring back stans
Then why do you keep on about it? This season sucks. It's going to continue to suck. So why do you and others bash Ray during every game like something is supposed to magically change now? No one has said Ray is the answer, we just believe in giving the guy next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
The bring back Stans crowd is retarded, though.
Because IAA it's not like we are going to not say anything during a 10 game losing streak. Get ****ing real.
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Just like those that say "all is well" have an opinion...others have opinions too. I'm not to the point of being as hard on Ray as some...but if we look similar next season, I'll be ready for us to pull the trigger. We're losing a lot of fairly close games lately. We're improving, but it's improvement from "horrible" to just "bad". Now...Can he take us from "bad" to "good"? We'll see.
He cant just inch his way towards better each year and us just accept it. This can't be a 10 year rebuild.
I didn't watch a minute of last nights game. I checked the score, figured we would lose by about 10, that's about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
This whole Stans/Ray argument is just so predictable. At the end of the day, it's being notorious versus being irrelevant. At least being notorious you care about games in February. Being irrelevant makes fans apathetic, which can really kills program.
I'm to the point I'm so frustrated with our basketball program I can't even bring myself to watch us play or even listen to Jim for the first time in my life.
I'm a younger guy so I guess I was spoiled by coach Williams and Stans
Totally agree... NIT or bust next year... Im still in his corner but next year is the year if he wants me to remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
I understand the support of Ray, but if we finish on a 14 game losing streak and last place in the SEC with an easier schedule than last year is there truly justifiable proof that our program is improving and getting betterQuote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
I have watched basically every game... I see with my eyes that even though we arnt winning right now we are improving... If you look at things statistically we are improved... So no the wins havnt happened but because of the shitty hand he was dealt I will allow moral victory improvements this year... Next year I want 20-22 wins and a minimum of .500 in the SEC or I will lead the message board charge to get him out. Based on what I see this year I think we will see that type of team next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by 601Dawg
Attendance was estimated about 1200 last night by a friend that was there. And I didn't go, and actually didn't watch the whole game on tv. Just the start and last 5 min.
They didn't quit, played hard, but damm this constant losing is not fun to watch.
I am not a bring back Stansbury fan. Didn't want him to leave, but don't think he should come back. That just don't work.
And there is literally no one that disagrees with that. Everyone is saying Ray has to do much better next year. No one here is saying Ray is for sure a good coach, we have only said lets give him a fair shake, and that is next year. It's the fact that every single game Ray is dragged over the coals by people expecting some drastic improvement which is not logical. Talk about the game, talk about how we played, but don't doom his career based on losses that we all expect to be losses. If we are here next year, he's gone. Simple as that.
Is all he has to sell is himself to HW and MN?
I agree we are improved, but my concern is that I haven't seen anything from a player that Ray has recruited that makes me think that he has an eye for talent. I also don't understand why he didn't hit the juco ranks hard last year. We should of had 4-5 new players, but instead we signed 3 and none that made an impact. His inability to recruit juco guys that can help is a major flaw, just as big a flaw as Stans lack of control of the program.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
If you look at what we have coming in next year and who we return - it just seems like at best we are looking at a 5-7 win SEC season in year 3. I know Im not going to watch that.
This may come across as me being an asshole but I promise I dont mean it that way... IF Ray rights the ship and gives us tangible improvement next year in wins are the people that have already made up their mind on him gonna then run to the message boards and repeat: He cant recruit hes winning with Stansbury's recruits. Im not sure I can bear to read that over and over.
First time in 10 years I failed to purchase my two season tickets to the Hump. It just isn't pretty to watch. Embarrassing is more like it.
Well to be honest, take away Roquez, Sword, Fred, and Gavin Ware and the rest of the players that Ray has brought in aren't very good. They play hard and get the most out of their abilities such as Bloodman who plays his guts out, but he's just not a solid SEC player IMO. Bortchert would have been a good sub on old teams of ours and I dont think that Davis or even Ready would have played much on old MSU teams based on Talent and ability.
if we give Ray another year it could be the end of the program. if he fails next season we'll be worse off than we were when Stans left.
1 thing matters rigt now because "winning" sure as shit doesn't. Attendance. Sell tickets and have butts in seats. Next year will be the worst year of ticket sales and attendance in the last decade if we keep Ray. That's a hell of a gamble to take IMO and it's not one you take on the chance that he may turn it around. You'd better damn well know. Otherwise the program is tanked for a decade barring Larry Brown leaving the State of Texas.
I am not a fan of Ray right now...but that is a pretty big overreaction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
He's on a snail's pace for his rebuild. Just like Croom. How about showing a little urgency on turning this around. It's not like his job depends on it.
it's Croom part two. "clean up the program" and a decade of crap. The last few years of Stans were terrible. Ray's three would be awful and the next coach would need 2-3 to clean it up. Damn near a decade of shitastic basketball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Nies Grind Time
I'm on board w ray because he inherited a mess. However, if these are your expectations for next year then you better put a parachute on before the plane comes crashing down.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
that's my problem. we can't expect to even compete to have a winning conference record in the worst BCS basketball conference until MAYBE year 4? In basketball??? That's ridiculous. This ship needs to get righted in a hurry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
And if he doesn't accomplish what was spelled out in thedawg's post, he'll be gone at the end of year 3. That's not asking too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
However, asking him to "fix it" midseason with 7 scholarship players IS asking him to do too much.
He's going to get 4 years. And he should. He took over a shipwreck.
Hes gonna get 4 years because we are going to go 20-12 next year.... We will again play a soft non conference schedule and alot people will say we are still no better.. just deeperQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Then our fans are stupid. Which I already knew anyway by their lack of support in terms of showing up for games for Cohen for 4.5 years. Next year is the first time to actually BUY season tickets and show up under Ray. It's the first time he's had all the pieces to the puzzle. I hope it clears out like you are projecting -- and I'll be locked into good seats at the Hump for the first time in my life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
We need to give Ray 4 years. I think that is fair for what he inherited. Based off his early recruiting, his first two years, and that the hire was mighty risky to begin with, I just don't have the confidence that he will get it done here. I support him since he is our coach and he needs the 4 years. I hope he proves me wrong.
yes he is- thinking he wont is being naive. When you ask a coach to completely change the culture of your program, you arent going to fire him when he is doing exactly what you asked him to do. These next two year his expectations will raise some now that he has cleaned things up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Not if he doesn't show MARKED improvement, he won't. He'll have a full deck next year -- with likely 4 JR starters and a SO. He will be out of excuses to not be an NIT team in my eyes and in the eyes of the vast majority of our fanbase that's looking at this levelheaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
We go 20-12 next year, we're in the NIT, and everyone will be on board with bringing him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
I think you are under estimating the attitude of some of the people with an agenda.. They wont be able to publicly say they want him fired they will just go silent and wait... The first sign of trouble they will be right back at it... I hope I am wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Cohen would have only gotten 3 if he had been equally terrible again in the 3rd. No one can blindly say "he gets 4 years" until they know what next year brings. Ray lays the same goose egg he did this year with a full roster(it's not going to happen, but I'm giving a theoretical), he's done in year 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by quickstrike2
Of course, I expect Ray to have an NIT team next year -- so I expect him to still be here for year 4 and finally building the momentum our fickle fans should have given him from the beginning.
This is dead on. Croom wanted a 10 year rebuilding process. We don't need 4 years to make basketball better. But like how most people are, if there feet are hot held to the fire, they will not push themselves. I don't feel that there is any sense of urgency to get impact guys into the program. I feel like we are going after developmental guys that no one else wants. Don't give me the Mullen "finding diamonds" argument. Mullen has shown that he can evaluate talent and win at MSU. Ray has not. I understand that he was given a bad situation, but it seems like he's approaching this like he has a decade to turn it around, even if he doesn't truly feel that way. That's the same it feels as a fan watching and following the program. Even as shittastic as Stans was at the end, I always felt like we could get things back in line because he would recruit someone to come in. I don't feel that way now. Mullen has improved his recruiting and he develops talent. Cohen recruits his ass off. Ray, the jury is out and I'm not confident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
No, you are exactly right. The Cohen bashers didn't go radio silent until the end of year 5 when we made the CWS run. And they were trying to reemerge a bit when we started slow this year. They would disappear when things went well, but at the first sign of trouble, they would pounce. Ask Coach about the grief I caught on SPS last year during our baseball series losing streak -- because I consistently held from December last year that we were one of the 8-12 best teams in the country and never backed down from it. Some of those people were talking about us missing regionals when our RPI was in the top 20 -- and the same ones have fired that line up again this year having learned nothing from being dumbasses before. I'm just not fighting that battle anymore -- because at this point 99% of people see it for how stupid it really is and the other 1% isn't ever going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
The first year wasnt real... He was brought in when there was no one left to sign... His best player and one of the best players in the country hit the road... Then the guys smoked there self off the team.. Then Wendell broke his kneecap... Then Jalen tore his ACL.... The first year had absolutely nothing to do with how good of a coach he is or isnt....
So we are are on year one of the rebuild... thats how I see it.. and like most of you think 4 years is too long in basketball... you can turn over a roster in two years... next year is my year 2
And I would have/did expect year 2 to be alot better. Right up until Wendell and Jalen selfished their way off the team -- as did Applewhite. 3 key contributors gone -- down to 7 scholarship players again -- and still a nice improvement over last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by thedawg
We don't need 4 years, but he's going to get 4 years barring an absolute collapse. He'll win a few more games next year just by virtue of having more experienced players and a full team. He could still end up with a bad season and with no signs that we are on the right path and still get a 4th year though. He just took over a shitty situation and I think he's going to get 4 years if you canmake any argument that there has been consistent improvement on the court, even if it seems like it won't improve based on the recruits he's bringing in. The only way I could see us firing him next year if there is any improvement is that at least then, we'd give a new coach a team with some solid seniors and he'd get a year to show what he can do rather than having to start basically from scratch like Ray did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksondevildog