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I've been a Ray supporter from day one but at this point I do not think he will be able to get it done. I don't trust his recruiting, game- managing skills or the effort I've seen out of his teams. I think we should pull the trigger at the end of the season and attempt to regain control of our basketball program. It's time!
Only way I'd support this is if Bruce pearl (or Donovan or calipari) was guaranteed to replace him.
Now next year we better see significant improvement or ray needs to go
Not going to happen. He will get 3 years.
Now and coming in next year will only equal 3-5 more conference wins... And that's being generous, we will not be a good team next year either. We need to pull the damn plug now.
I don't know if I'm there yet but he has only one more year with me. I questioned hi coaching decisions too yesterday at the end of the game. We make two free throws to cut the lead to 4 with about :47 left I think. That's only a :12 shot clock difference so you would think you need to make it a free throw shooting game. But, he elects not to foul and Ark just runs the clock down before turning it over with :17 left. That's hardly enough time to try and have two possessions with baskets, while hoping Arky misses their free throws. It made no sense.
I'm hoping this doesn't turn out like the Croom experience, but Ray better get a few good commits, Newman, and show marked improvement next year or he is gone.
Yep, the last minute of yesterday's game was pretty inexplicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucky Dog
I'm not saying he will work magic next year, just can't see SS pulling the trigger after 2 seasons. If we only win 3-4 more sec wins next year, it will be interesting to see if SS considers that enough of an improvement for a 4th.
I heard at the game that it appears that Malik is going to LSU, unless something happens........
The guy had on a maroon shirt, so I assume he knows what he is talking about..
Any coach we hire deserves three years period... Next year is the year.. NIT or we start talking tough decisions
if we give him one more you'd better be ready for two more because next year won't be enough for him to right the ship.
we've lost players consistently and I'm not sure we'll keep all of our guys this season. the team has quit on the court. I'm not sure they'll all survive the offseason.
Boy, that would be a kick in the pants. Its one thing to lose him to an elite program like KY but if we lose him to a mediocre program like LSU that would be sad. Yes, they are certainly better than us RIGHT NOW (very few programs aren't) but over the last 20 years we've been a better program than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
No way he goes to LSU. Its UK, Duke, KU or UNC.
Why would he go to LSU over those schools?
Ray gets 4 years, and yes I agree he needs to be gone now.
What gives you any confidence in our AD making a good hire after he hired Ray?
I have no faith in Scott replacing Ray with a good assistant coach, or even with a current head coach, none.
If he starts year 3 without a full 13 I'll want him gone immediately. He's had a ton of time to fill out a roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
They didn't look like they quit to me yesterday
The situation hasn't changed... Ray inherited one of the worst situations in college basketball in a long time by the time every body had smoked off of campus and gotten hurt last year... Coach K would have put a terrible team on the court last year...
This year we were set to be a ton more competitive and then Jalen and Wendell did what they did... Who honestly think we don't have 17-18 wins with Jalens 3s and another experienced body down low? Either way every player on our roster has improved ... I'm not digging up the stats but they have... Its not sexy but we have went from terrible to bad... With luck we didn't get this year our ceiling was average..
Next year the excuses come off.. Period. We add a seven footer that ray has been able to develop for two years.. We add a 6'8 that ray has had for a year in practice.. We add another big man that is being developed at IMG right now... With Gavin and Roquez post depth will not be a problem... We add hopefully two high school shooters.. We desperately need that kid from GA to come on.. Also IJ and Jacoby make jump in shooting department.. Both have shown potential.. We also return our best player in sword.. Bottom line we will be out of the Tyson Cunningham and Tevin Moore business.
We should be a 20 win NIT team next year.. No excuses... And then we will stay at that level for a few years... That's the reality of the situation.. If we don't get to that level next year then it will be "time" as this thread is titled... Until then talking about firing ray in year two is like talking of firing Cohen in year two.. Do u remember how horrible we were in baseball that year?
I haven't thought about it this way but I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
We are a D1 program (albeit a bad one) . No reason to not be able to get 13 players. None.
Fill the hopper and process them at year end. Then fill it up again. Then process them again. Right now APR is the least of our worries.
He's had 1 full recruiting cycle.
He lost 2 players to drugs last season after it was too late to sign anybody else- then lost 2 to knee injuries. No way to have a full roster
This year he lost Daniels cause he didn't qualify- but had to save his scholly cause he enrolled at Christmas
He was at the mercy of the NCAA with NDoye
He had 2 other players leave after it was too late to get anybody else in. You can't bring in players during the Fall that are worth a shit. How is he supposed to have players when he keeps losing the Stands players to drugs and bullshit? Especially when it's after the signing period?
Will we have a full roster next year.??
He gets a pass for last year, but its time for Ray to figure out how to use all 13 scholarships.
You should be able to figure out if a player will qualify or not.
We gave SYLVESTER CROOM 5 freaking years!! Shut the hell up! You are clueless.Quote:
Originally Posted by BogeyGolfer
As of a couple months ago LSU was his top choice. He loves Johnny Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwater99
C'mon Fish- you are at the mercy of the player on that. Player A needs a B in a class to qualify in the last Summer session and he is good to go. Player A makes a C+ in the last summer session- leaving you with your dick in your hand. What else ya gonna do?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishwater99
It's a good bit more involved than thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Raytoraid83
As far as LSU Malik situation, won't say all I heard, but it made sense to me, and with Johnny Jones reputation, don't be surprised if that doesn't happen.. But again that's just what I heard, and had reason to believe it.
I tend to think that Ray will be able to prove that he deserves more time after the season next year. If not something may or may not be done.
Hey, I even thought we had no choice but to hire Croom at the time, won't say it took me 5 years to think otherwise.
We are getting ready to offer Troutman whose best offers are UNC-Wilmington and New Hampshire. Welcome to Rick Ray basketball.
Everybody is in agreement that Ray needs to have and should have a better basketball team next year. He's had the 2 rebuilding years- now it's time to progress in more than the weighroom and discipline. It's time to get some more W's in 2015.
Yep as all recruiting situations are, and if we don't start playing the recruiting game again Ray does have no chance to win here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
It doesn't matter where Newman goes because it will NOT be MSU.
I want Ray to get it done, but you can't just have a bunch of average to below average D1 players and expect them to hustle their way to victories over good teams. At some point you have to recruit some above average talent, and so far Ray isn't even close to doing that.
We'll see what happens, but I feel like after next season we'll all be sharing Bogey's thoughts. Hope I'm wrong, but give me 1 good reason why you see things improving?
Are our terrible shooters going to learn how to shoot during the off season?
Do we have more talented players on deck in the recruiting classes?
There's just nothing to give you optimism right now except that our current decent guys have 2 more years. But you can mold a turd for a year straight, and it may look better the following year, but it's still a turd.
I can't name a conference I think this years team could win & I can't name a conference I could predict next years team will win either. We're going nowhere fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrill1
Yep and how did that work out?.
I'm confused by the moving goal posts of the "Ray can't recruit" crowd. Let's find a consensus here. The complaint on Troutman = lack of offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE
Well, Oliver Black had an offer from a last year Final 4 team that is about to be the first team in a number of years to make it through the regular season undefeated -- as well as Oklahoma, Ole Miss, and Tulane. Demetrius Houston had offers from Bama, Auburn, and Seton Hall. So, which is it?
So, are we defining his ability to recruit JUST on stars or offers? Because we damn sure aren't defining it based on what "HIS" players from his first full term of recruiting are doing on the floor. He only has one and that one will be a tremendous player for us before he's done.
What is the actual complaint against Troutman's skill set? He's a hilariously underrated shooter because he took a mission trip and missed basically all of his AAU season before his senior year, while playing at a smaller high school in rural Georgia. Some people(totally unrelated to MSU) think he is one of the best shooters coming out this year. The guy hit 11 3s in a high school game and averaged in the mid 20s.
A) Agreed. We have no shot at Newman. We arent even it in at this point. We arent putting in what is necessary to get that signature.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
B) Our shooters will indeed be better next year. They are better this year than last. Having 5 scholarship players on the court at all times will help them get easier shots also. For example- we had an 8-9 point lead on Auburn and then Sword got his 2nd foul with 10+ minutes left in the 1st half. We then began to turn the ball over and fall apart and allow Auburn to tie and then pass us. We have no bench right now and it kills us
C) Yes we have more talented players joining us in the Fall. Daniels is said to be as good as Ware. He doesnt shoot the 3 like Borchert but is a much better defender and is quicker.
NDoye will give us some more post prescence of the bench to rest Ware. We wont ever have to play Roq at the 5 next year- which kills us on defense.
Houston is going to give us a solid player at the 3 along with FTF- who should be a little better as well next year.
Ready and the other Freshman will have a year of SEC basketball under their belts and should play better next year.
Hell, we were getting beat last year by 20, 30, and 40...now we stay in games and compete for the most part- and we still arent playing with a full roster. Next year will be an improved basketball team.
Cohen couldn't recruit either...
Hope so. I'm rooting for itQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Only an idiot ever said that though. Anyone with any baseball knowledge knew Cohen was a great hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
Most basketball minds knew Ray was a roll of the dice
If you honestly think Oliver Black who averaged 7 pts and 7 rebounds his junior year was offered by all those schools then you are more ignorant than I thought. He is going to be very close on if he qualifies or not. On Troutman, I don't care if he lives in a town of 20 people somehow New Hampshire a school 1000 miles away heard of him. Demetrius Houston we actually did beat some people to sign him thanks to George Brooks. People complain about him not having a full recruiting cycle but he signed 4 guys in the Fall of 2012 and only one is eligible to play! What other program only gets 1 kid eligible out of 4? I guess we just completely sweep under the rug Applewhite transferring?Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Not too good, but that's not the point. The point is that Ray should and will have time. Croom did and he failed. Cohen did and he succeeded. Ray hasn't even finished year two and folks are calling for his head after three starters have quit/been kicked off. And I haven't seen Shaun Smith or Kristers Ziedaks mentioned in a while - two guys he had to kick off before he coached his first game.Quote:
Originally Posted by tcdog70
All I'm asking is for folks to use common sense and perspective ... And heck maybe even come to a game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Exactly. It's the "why aren't we in the tourney this year without having a clue" crowd.
Exactly. That's all ANYONE is asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrill1
But it'll never happen. Too many people butt hurt about our former coach that are pushing an agenda. Same thing as with the baseball transition. Let Cohen lose a few more games and you'll see these same idiots resurface again in that sport....or should I say, the same people now pretending to have been on the Cohen bandwagon all along will remember and come forth with their anti-Cohen agenda again...
What has happened with Ray in year 2 that didn't happen with Cohen in year 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Why, then, are normally reasonable posters starting to pass judgement on Ray at a point in time when they were patient with Cohen?
The point being -- we don't know shit on Ray yet -- and won't until next year. There are COUNTLESS examples in the SEC right now of teams chock full of 4 and 5* players with hotshot "can't miss" coaches that currently suck. Why, then, is everyone dead set that WE have to follow those blueprints to success -- when it's being proven as not currently working all around us? And we're defining our coach's "failure" at recruiting based on all these teams that have "succeeded" in recruiting only to crash and burn on the court? Because Ray isn't recruiting players with enough "stars" -- when we've only seen one true Ray recruit on the court thusfar?
The last couple of weeks have been shit. No doubt about it. That doesn't change the fact that next year is the first time that the rubber has a legitimate chance to start meeting the road -- and consequently when we can begin actually judging Rick Ray.