Is Jans an improvement over Howland? Did we make the wrong call firing him?

2015-16 Mississippi State 14-17 7-11
2016-17 Mississippi State 16-16 6-12
2017-18 Mississippi State 25-12 9-9 NIT Semifinal
2018-19 Mississippi State 23-11 10-8 NCAA Division I Round of 64
2019-20 Mississippi State 20-11 11-7 No postseason held
2020-21 Mississippi State 18-15 8-10 NIT Runner-up
2021-22 Mississippi State 18-16 8-10 NIT First Round
Mississippi State: 134-98 (.578) 59-67 (.468)

2022-23 Mississippi State 21-13 8-10 NCAA Division I First Four
2023-24 Mississippi State 21-14 8-10 NCAA Division I Round of 64
2024-25 Mississippi State 21-13 8-10 NCAA Division I Round of 64
2025-26 Mississippi State 11-13 3-8
Mississippi State: 74-53 (.583) 27-38 (.415)

My immediate gut reaction is that Jans is better, but looking at the resumes, it's a hard case to make.

You could argue that the biggest difference in the 2 is that NIL killed off most of the mid-major programs, meaning the SEC and Big 10 could start stacking up even more NCAA Tournament bids, meaning that 8-10 was now good enough to make it under Jans when it wasn't enough under Howland.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

My immediate gut reaction is that Jans is better, but looking at the resumes, it's a hard case to make.

You could argue that the biggest difference in the 2 is that NIL killed off most of the mid-major programs, meaning the SEC and Big 10 could start stacking up even more NCAA Tournament bids, meaning that 8-10 was now good enough to make it under Jans when it wasn't enough under Howland.

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How is it hard?

3 NCAA's in 4 years vs 1 in 7
3 20 win seasons in 4 years vs 3 in 7

Jans up to this year has been an improvement over Howland. Obviously this year sucks. Howland brought in talent and couldn?t do much with it, the program had gone stale on him, it was time for him to go.

Both coaches are/were frustrating in their own ways.

Jans needs Howland as his GM.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

How is it hard?

3 NCAA's in 4 years vs 1 in 7
3 20 win seasons in 4 years vs 3 in 7

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"You could argue that the biggest difference in the 2 is that NIL killed off most of the mid-major programs, meaning the SEC and Big 10 could start stacking up even more NCAA Tournament bids, meaning that 8-10 was now good enough to make it under Jans when it wasn't enough under Howland."

Also, 0 .500+ SEC records vs. 3
Howland's 2019 team was a 5 seed with a top 20 NET. Jans never better than an 8 seed.
Howland probably would have gotten a 2nd NCAA bid in 2020 if it hadn't been canceled.
Howland had to rebuild from Rick Ray, while Jans inherited a competent enough program.
Jans has never been better than 8-10 in the SEC, and in Howland's last 5 years, he was never worse than 8-10.

Like I said, I think I'm still leaning toward Jans being an improvement, but you can make the case either way.

Howland and Jans are essentially just a continuation of Richard Williams and Rick Stansbury - we are an average SEC program who tops out as a bubble team most years. Sometimes we make the tourney, sometimes we don't. We have to have everything go right in addition to landing a generational talent (for MSU) to do anything more - and that has happened 2 times in 35 years (Dampier and Roberts).

Heck after looking at the resumes its hard to say Jans is a huge upgrade over Howland. Howland definitely recruited better..

Geez… Come on guys. Howland made 1 NCAAT appearance in 7 years and Jans made 3 NCAAT appearances in 4 years.

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Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

Heck after looking at the resumes its hard to say Jans is a huge upgrade over Howland. Howland definitely recruited better..

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You're trying to compare pre portal to post portal. Howland was an incredible HS recruiter and evaluator. INCREDIBLE. However, he had trouble ever elevating their game past where they were when they got to campus.

Q got better under Howland.
Peters was the same
Little Spoon was the same
Carter was the same
Perry was the same
Stewart is TBD because he left early
Woodard is TBD because he left early.

Howland was great at getting them in

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

Jans needs Howland as his GM.

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^^^^

Adidas helped Howland land some players because he was one of their guys. Jan doesnt really have those kind of connections

Secondly- some of those names Howland landed were legacy guys as well as Mississippi guys- which are easier to recruit than players from other states. Mississippi hasnt really been producing those types of players lately- except Hubb.

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Originally Posted by BigDawg81

Geez… Come on guys. Howland made 1 NCAAT appearance in 7 years and Jans made 3 NCAAT appearances in 4 years.

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If you won't give Howland credit for probably making it in 2020, you should at least take it out of the denominator and say he made 1 of 6.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

If you won't give Howland credit for probably making it in 2020, you should at least take it out of the denominator and say he made 1 of 6.

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And the 2017-18 team would be shoo-in to make the tournament today.

I feel the same now as I did when Howland was here. Inconsistent all season long, limp to the postseason and flame out pretty quickly.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Howland and Jans are essentially just a continuation of Richard Williams and Rick Stansbury - we are an average SEC program who tops out as a bubble team most years. Sometimes we make the tourney, sometimes we don't. We have to have everything go right in addition to landing a generational talent (for MSU) to do anything more - and that has happened 2 times in 35 years (Dampier and Roberts).

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Stans made the tournament in 6 of 14 seasons.
Jans has made it in 3 of 4 seasons.
Both of those are head and shoulders above the rest.

Jans has been an upgrade over howland so far. All that matters in college basketball is making the tournament (the top programs require more). Making the tournament is what our coaches are judged on.

Chris is a better floor coach than Howland when Howland was here. The UCLA Howland would coach circles around Jans, Stans, Richard, or anyone we ever have had.

Unfortunately we did not get that Ben Howland. We got a very good Ben Howland and it took every ounce of acumen he had to dig us out of the Rick Ray sized crater our program was. Ben often told people in private that if he could have taken over in 15 instead of 16, he could have gotten the 16 team to the tournament. He said Sword with 2 years of his development would have been an NBA rotation player.

Jans is the second best coach we have had this century. He is better than Howland and not far behind Rick. He just is. Rick was a terrible in game coach and lucked into his best team because of the Baylor stuff and Shane Power and Larry Eustschey were screwing the same coed and Power had to get out of Ames. Eustachey handed Shane to us on a silver platter. Howland, to his credit, got some really highly ranked players onto campus, but could never really develop them.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

And the 2017-18 team would be shoo-in to make the tournament today.

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I was never a big Howland fan, but to be fair to him the 17-18, 18-19 and 19-20 teams were all tournament teams. We got robbed in 2018 not making the tournament and we would've made it in 2020 had a post season been held. If I recall I think we were a projected 9 seed going into the end of the year with a 11-7 SEC record.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I was never a big Howland fan, but to be fair to him the 17-18, 18-19 and 19-20 teams were all tournament teams. We got robbed in 2018 not making the tournament and we would've made it in 2020 had a post season been held. If I recall I think we were a projected 9 seed going into the end of the year with a 11-7 SEC record.

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We were projected as the second team out in 2020. Us and Florida were going to play Thursday in what amounted to a play in game for the tournament.

In 17-18, our RPI just wasn't high enough. We didn't help ourselves by playing a crap non con schedule and getting run off the floor by the only team we played in non con with a pulse(Cincinnati). Despite that, we still had chances to easily make the tourney that year. Just win at Vandy and win at LSU. Both of those teams were TERRIBLE. We lost at the buzzer to Vandy and were blown out at LSU. We weren't making the tourney barring winning the SEC tourney.

It's an irrelevant question. Is he advancing our program NOW is the relevant question. And it's difficult to say 'yes'.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

"You could argue that the biggest difference in the 2 is that NIL killed off most of the mid-major programs, meaning the SEC and Big 10 could start stacking up even more NCAA Tournament bids, meaning that 8-10 was now good enough to make it under Jans when it wasn't enough under Howland."

Also, 0 .500+ SEC records vs. 3
Howland's 2019 team was a 5 seed with a top 20 NET. Jans never better than an 8 seed.
Howland probably would have gotten a 2nd NCAA bid in 2020 if it hadn't been canceled.
Howland had to rebuild from Rick Ray, while Jans inherited a competent enough program.
Jans has never been better than 8-10 in the SEC, and in Howland's last 5 years, he was never worse than 8-10.

Like I said, I think I'm still leaning toward Jans being an improvement, but you can make the case either way.

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Howland is/was a better coach. Howland in the NIL era would most likely clean up. Jans continues to trend lower.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

You're trying to compare pre portal to post portal. Howland was an incredible HS recruiter and evaluator. INCREDIBLE. However, he had trouble ever elevating their game past where they were when they got to campus.

Q got better under Howland.
Peters was the same
Little Spoon was the same
Carter was the same
Perry was the same
Stewart is TBD because he left early
Woodard is TBD because he left early.

Howland was great at getting them in

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Howland put alot of players in the NBA...ALOT

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Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

Howland put alot of players in the NBA...ALOT

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Not a lot here though. G League doesn’t count.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

We were projected as the second team out in 2020. Us and Florida were going to play Thursday in what amounted to a play in game for the tournament.

In 17-18, our RPI just wasn't high enough. We didn't help ourselves by playing a crap non con schedule and getting run off the floor by the only team we played in non con with a pulse(Cincinnati). Despite that, we still had chances to easily make the tourney that year. Just win at Vandy and win at LSU. Both of those teams were TERRIBLE. We lost at the buzzer to Vandy and were blown out at LSU. We weren't making the tourney barring winning the SEC tourney.

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Not disagreeing, but I thought it came down to our conference record

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Not a lot here though. G League doesn’t count.

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Quinndary Weatherspoon, Reggie Perry and Robert Woodard were all drafted.

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Originally Posted by NCMSTFAN

Quinndary Weatherspoon, Reggie Perry and Robert Woodard were all drafted.

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And all it takes is 1 friendly judge and all 3 of them could suit up for us again!

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

"You could argue that the biggest difference in the 2 is that NIL killed off most of the mid-major programs, meaning the SEC and Big 10 could start stacking up even more NCAA Tournament bids, meaning that 8-10 was now good enough to make it under Jans when it wasn't enough under Howland."

Also, 0 .500+ SEC records vs. 3
Howland's 2019 team was a 5 seed with a top 20 NET. Jans never better than an 8 seed.
Howland probably would have gotten a 2nd NCAA bid in 2020 if it hadn't been canceled.
Howland had to rebuild from Rick Ray, while Jans inherited a competent enough program.
Jans has never been better than 8-10 in the SEC, and in Howland's last 5 years, he was never worse than 8-10.

Like I said, I think I'm still leaning toward Jans being an improvement, but you can make the case either way.

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The SEC is way better right now than it was when Howland was here.

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Originally Posted by smootness

The SEC is way better right now than it was when Howland was here.

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Because everyone is paying players. Since Howland was a better recruiter and talent evaluator - it's fair to say while he would have coached worse, he would have a higher tier of player making up for it. Sometimes in basketball that's all you need.

Compare Jans records with vs without Howland recruits