I've seen enough now to know that KT should not be

sitting on the bench no more than half the game.

He is our leading rusher the last two games and only played about 1.25 quarters in both games.

He has scored 5 TDs in that same time playing.

Does he know or can run the whole playbook, no but he don't have to in order to be effective. He stresses a D like no one else we have.

Does he miss throws - yes so does Shapen. He don't take sacks, Shapen does. He has pocket awareness, Shapen doesn't.

Not saying Shapen shouldn't play too but KT can't sit the bench all but 3 plays a game.

Kamario?s deep pass to Thompson was beautiful. It is obvious after these last two games that he needs to play more. He has really progressed since game one.

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

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This

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

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I remember when Pat Dye was Auburn?s HC, He redshirt every freshman offensive lineman every year. Just about every year he had 5 senior starters and 5 junior backups. I don?t remember how many got drafted each year like you remember 2010, but his program definitely worked and many coaches try to copy his plan.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

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It's hard to argue this at this point. We would have won a Natty in 2010 had Cam come to State.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

It's hard to argue this at this point. We would have won a Natty in 2010 had Cam come to State.

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Yes we would have. And I am not implying he is Cam Newton cause there will probably never be another Cam. But the traits are there and we have him on the bench.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

It's hard to argue this at this point. We would have won a Natty in 2010 had Cam come to State.

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It is tough to say. I still think he wins the Heisman but I do not think we go 12-0. We lose 1 of Bama or LSU and may lose both. They were both on the road. I think we make the SEC championship game if we split those two but I do not know if that would have been enough.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

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The issue is right now he is Cam Newton when Cam Newton was at Florida. And there is a LOT that can hurt. Bowl chances for one thing. Which means that KT won't get the extra practices in which are valuable.

Mizzou's defense is very difficult and they throw a LOT of looks out there. Not ideal for a freshman QB. And it's why I think we start Shapen and have a better chance to win with Shapen as long as he is healthy.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The issue is right now he is Cam Newton when Cam Newton was at Florida. And there is a LOT that can hurt. Bowl chances for one thing. Which means that KT won't get the extra practices in which are valuable.

Mizzou's defense is very difficult and they throw a LOT of looks out there. Not ideal for a freshman QB. And it's why I think we start Shapen and have a better chance to win with Shapen as long as he is healthy.

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I can't disagree with you. If Shapen would run the offense how it's suppose to be run then yes, no doubt Shaoen is the guy. But I feel like he isn't doing that. He doesn't move the pocket and constantly looks for the HR ball. It's either Evans or Thompson. And the only time he seems to hit the short, intermediate routes is on 3rd downs when they are short of the first down. I know Shapen threw 3 passes short of the sticks this week to Evans and Thompson. He just doesnt seem to be making the right decisions right now. And I thought he was somewhat mobile but I was wrong. You're right tho.. he gives us the better chance to win IF he turns its around this week and makes the right decisions. And I kniw that's tough when your O line can't give you time to make those reads. Which is why I'm leaning more toward KT to make things happen with his feet, move the pocket, and hopefully still keep his eyes downfield.

I don't think either player will do too well when your OL gets pushed around like ours. I think Shapen gets the ball out quicker and is more accurate than KT, therefore I think Shapen should be the starter.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

The issue is right now he is Cam Newton when Cam Newton was at Florida. And there is a LOT that can hurt. Bowl chances for one thing. Which means that KT won't get the extra practices in which are valuable.

Mizzou's defense is very difficult and they throw a LOT of looks out there. Not ideal for a freshman QB. And it's why I think we start Shapen and have a better chance to win with Shapen as long as he is healthy.

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Well, KT actually owns his laptop. *****

Tebow might not have been a thing if not for the laptop

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

I can't disagree with you. If Shapen would run the offense how it's suppose to be run then yes, no doubt Shaoen is the guy. But I feel like he isn't doing that. He doesn't move the pocket and constantly looks for the HR ball. It's either Evans or Thompson. And the only time he seems to hit the short, intermediate routes is on 3rd downs when they are short of the first down. I know Shapen threw 3 passes short of the sticks this week to Evans and Thompson. He just doesnt seem to be making the right decisions right now. And I thought he was somewhat mobile but I was wrong. You're right tho.. he gives us the better chance to win IF he turns its around this week and makes the right decisions. And I kniw that's tough when your O line can't give you time to make those reads. Which is why I'm leaning more toward KT to make things happen with his feet, move the pocket, and hopefully still keep his eyes downfield.

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The thing is Shapen makes a lot of really bad plays a game too from sacks to fumbles to int so even if KT does some of those he still makes big things happen and stresses a D like no one else.

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Originally Posted by Pancho

Tebow might not have been a thing if not for the laptop

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What? Tebow won the Heisman his Soph season which was Cam's freshman year at Florida. He wasn't going to supplant the Heisman winner. Tebow / Florida won the title the following year.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

The thing is Shapen makes a lot of really bad plays a game too from sacks to fumbles to int so even if KT does some of those he still makes big things happen and stresses a D like no one else.

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True. Sacks kill drives. Anytime we get a successful drive going, Shapen seems to take a sack. Drive killer. KT will take sacks too but not at the rate Shapen takes them. Shapen can't turn a negative into a positive.. KT can. And will. Defenses know our O Line sucks and a sack puts us in passing situations everytime cause Shapen is no threat to run, and our run game isn't all that to be worried about. KT changes that dynamic.

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

True. Sacks kill drives. Anytime we get a successful drive going, Shapen seems to take a sack. Drive killer. KT will take sacks too but not at the rate Shapen takes them. Shapen can't turn a negative into a positive.. KT can. And will. Defenses know our O Line sucks and a sack puts us in passing situations everytime cause Shapen is no threat to run, and our run game isn't all that to be worried about. KT changes that dynamic.

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With KT even if he takes a sack I don’t see them being 15 yards back. That’s been the BIGGEST drive killer. Shapen doesn’t just take a 5 yard sack he takes 15-20 yard sacks and often fumbles the ball in the process. His oline for sure doesn’t help him with that though

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Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses

I can't disagree with you. If Shapen would run the offense how it's suppose to be run then yes, no doubt Shaoen is the guy. But I feel like he isn't doing that. He doesn't move the pocket and constantly looks for the HR ball. It's either Evans or Thompson. And the only time he seems to hit the short, intermediate routes is on 3rd downs when they are short of the first down. I know Shapen threw 3 passes short of the sticks this week to Evans and Thompson. He just doesnt seem to be making the right decisions right now. And I thought he was somewhat mobile but I was wrong. You're right tho.. he gives us the better chance to win IF he turns its around this week and makes the right decisions. And I kniw that's tough when your O line can't give you time to make those reads. Which is why I'm leaning more toward KT to make things happen with his feet, move the pocket, and hopefully still keep his eyes downfield.

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Constantly looking for the home run ball is the hallmark of the veer and shoot offense. Their motto is score from afar. That's what makes it successful and explosive. Think about our two wins against Arizona State and Arkansas. In both of those games, the key play that essentially won the games for us were on deep balls. KT will throw plenty of those in his career and he already has a few as I type this.

Just because a QB throws a pass short of the sticks it doesn't mean the QB made the wrong decision. They make that decision because the defense takes away the deeper options. You have to hope that your receiver can make a guy miss and pick up the first down. That's the design of the offense plus what the defense is giving you.

The offensive line is a major issue for us and honestly much more of an issue than Shapen.

Shapen is good when not under pressure but he takes way too many sacks when he can throw the ball away. Playing KT the last 2 games is invaluable for his progress even if we don't win. The people who say Shapen is much better don't have a clue about football.

Well there you go 99jc. we don't need friends with folks like you

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Constantly looking for the home run ball is the hallmark of the veer and shoot offense. Their motto is score from afar. That's what makes it successful and explosive. Think about our two wins against Arizona State and Arkansas. In both of those games, the key play that essentially won the games for us were on deep balls. KT will throw plenty of those in his career and he already has a few as I type this.

Just because a QB throws a pass short of the sticks it doesn't mean the QB made the wrong decision. They make that decision because the defense takes away the deeper options. You have to hope that your receiver can make a guy miss and pick up the first down. That's the design of the offense plus what the defense is giving you.

The offensive line is a major issue for us and honestly much more of an issue than Shapen.

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It's like Shapen has become the Bizzaro-Will Rogers. Where Will became allergic to deep passes and hit the check down almost immediately - Shapen is doing everything he can to find the deep ball and seems to wait so long no check down is an option due to the DL pressure. However, seeing Fluff drop some gimmes - that may not be the best option either.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

It's like Shapen has become the Bizzaro-Will Rogers. Where Will became allergic to deep passes and hit the check down almost immediately - Shapen is doing everything he can to find the deep ball and seems to wait so long no check down is an option due to the DL pressure. However, seeing Fluff drop some gimmes - that may not be the best option either.

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Some of that is the offense teaches to look for those shots. Unfortunately for us, you need a really good line to run this offense. You have to protect the QB.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Some of that is the offense teaches to look for those shots. Unfortunately for us, you need a really good line to run this offense. You have to protect the QB.

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I get that - but there is a difference in looking at those shots and waiting for those shots. I get they take a little bit longer to develop. Maybe more of it comes down to play calling? We seem to not do much in the screen game, or the Mesh that would allow us to move when the line isn't protecting well enough for the deep routes to develop. I was shocked when KT hit that quick out to Thompson on his 2nd play in the 3rd Q that went for 14 yards. One it had quick zip (which it seem we never have a QB that makes that quick throw well); but it also was something we just don't see much in this offense.

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Originally Posted by 99jc

Shapen is good when not under pressure but he takes way too many sacks when he can throw the ball away. Playing KT the last 2 games is invaluable for his progress even if we don't win. The people who say Shapen is much better don't have a clue about football.

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Hey 99 was it you who used to do FEMA work?

There's no reason Shapen should play these last two games. KT's improvement just from August has been remarkable. I don't care if he doesn't know the whole play book. He gives us more threat than Shapen, which is what really matters. I'm more than willing to live with KT's growing pains than have to watch Shapen 17 up in the most obvious, damaging, predictable ways again. I said it after the Florida game and I haven't seen anything since to convince me otherwise. KT may not be ready, but there's a reason Shapen was a B12 QB. He isn't good enough for the SEC. Big arm, inaccurate, and the mobility of a statue is the exact definition of a B12 QB.