Watched Ole Miss vs Georgia Highlights

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

My friends and I have talked about this many times, it's either a run up the middle or a bomb. Where are the 10 yard routes? I would say pass blocking could contribute to the play calling but how can pass blocking for a 40 yard pass play be easier than a 10 yard curl or hitch?

Agree with you Todd. Maybe we need more dink and dunk plays like Leach ran. They were effective you know. But they don't listen to us, do they?

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

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Good analysis. Do this and we have two more wins and may have given AM a game.

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Originally Posted by gtowndawg

My friends and I have talked about this many times, it's either a run up the middle or a bomb. Where are the 10 yard routes? I would say pass blocking could contribute to the play calling but how can pass blocking for a 40 yard pass play be easier than a 10 yard curl or hitch?

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I posted here and was shot down that Shapen is not six feet and two inches. We cannot throw anything short and especially over the middle because he cannot see over the defensive line and as we know, he has little pocket awareness. Heck, I think he misses the bombs more often than not to our world-class wide receiver sprinter and Evans because he just throws it to where he thinks they will be as he can't see downfield.
He admitted he didn't see a 6'6 330 pound or so Florida nose guard who dropped back into coverage on a terrible playcall and even worse execution to a freshman wide receiver who has caught about four passes this year, and we were also told he ran the wrong pattern. What a 3-way cluster!

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

I posted here and was shot down that Shapen is not six feet and two inches. We cannot throw anything short and especially over the middle because he cannot see over the defensive line and as we know, he has little pocket awareness. Heck, I think he misses the bombs more often than not to our world-class wide receiver sprinter and Evans because he just throws it to where he thinks they will be as he can't see downfield.
He admitted he didn't see a 6'6 330 pound or so Florida nose guard who dropped back into coverage on a terrible playcall and even worse execution to a freshman wide receiver who has caught about four passes this year, and we were also told he ran the wrong pattern. What a 3-way cluster!

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He's not the tallest QB ever but I don't think his height is his main issue. And really- how many times do you ever see a nose tackle drop into coverage ever?

I think he's just streaky. But he does throw a good deep ball and when it connects it does a lot of good things for us. That's literally why we beat Arizona State- pretty much every time we scored we hit a bomb. The problem with bombs is they are hard to execute. I said earlier in the year that if we hit 50% on those I'm going to be very happy. And that's the thing they're low percentage plays in terms of execution but they're big on EPA (damage to the other team).

To me, I think the issue is we aren't calling enough plays to help him get into a rhythm, get our receivers into a rhythm, and that eventually helps with hitting those bombs. It also helps our offensive line out too because they don't have to block for very long and it gets guys like Ayden Williams involved. And it helps the run game too because the defense can't load the box.

And I think reads like that would help Kamario Taylor too. They're pretty basic and simple and they usually get fairly open especially in college.

Georgia "could have" rushed for 400 yards. Maybe someone other than me will realize this before the season is over. Maybe Lebby.

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Georgia "could have" rushed for 400 yards. Maybe someone other than me will realize this before the season is over. Maybe Lebby.

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I thought it was interesting that Herbstreit said that the weakness of Ole Miss's defense was their corners. The only real passing team that they have played this year was Arkansas and they gave up a ton of points to them.

But to your point Ole Miss has had a lot of problems stopping the run this year too.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

I posted here and was shot down that Shapen is not six feet and two inches. We cannot throw anything short and especially over the middle because he cannot see over the defensive line and as we know, he has little pocket awareness. Heck, I think he misses the bombs more often than not to our world-class wide receiver sprinter and Evans because he just throws it to where he thinks they will be as he can't see downfield.
He admitted he didn't see a 6'6 330 pound or so Florida nose guard who dropped back into coverage on a terrible playcall and even worse execution to a freshman wide receiver who has caught about four passes this year, and we were also told he ran the wrong pattern. What a 3-way cluster!

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It is almost as if running any play there was way too big a risk for way too small a reward.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I thought it was interesting that Herbstreit said that the weakness of Ole Miss's defense was their corners. The only real passing team that they have played this year was Arkansas and they gave up a ton of points to them.

But to your point Ole Miss has had a lot of problems stopping the run this year too.

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Each time Georgia ran, it was gonna be for over 5 yards or more. Before that game, ole miss Defense gave up 4.8 yards per rush. And that's after playing Tulane, Georgia state, and Washington state.

Can Oklahoma run the ball?

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Originally Posted by DownwardDawg

Each time Georgia ran, it was gonna be for over 5 yards or more. Before that game, ole miss Defense gave up 4.8 yards per rush. And that's after playing Tulane, Georgia state, and Washington state.

Can Oklahoma run the ball?

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They're not the best in the SEC at running the ball but they'll be OK I think.

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Originally Posted by smootness

It is almost as if running any play there was way too big a risk for way too small a reward.

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We had 26 seconds, 3 downs, and no time outs. I'm sorry - a pass play was not the wrong call in this situation. The execution sucked. I know everyone thinks "well he hit from 56 this year" - those are low percentage kicks. Even 5 more yards increases the %.
Passing was the best way to gain more yards and be efficient with the time. Run the ball and you risk a slow play, not getting OOB to stop the clock, followed by a slow clearing of the pile, and that time just runs out. We've also seen defenses use late substitutions to burn teams into delay of games. If that had happened, our fans would be even more off the wall about Lebby then they already are. "All we had to do was throw a quick out to the sideline to gain 5 yards, get OOB to stop the clock and be in better position - and the dummy ran off tackle into a pile of bodies with no time outs!"

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

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A few of reasons for this:

1. Lebby has more trust in Shapen than Lane has in Chambliss. Right, wrong, or indifferent Lebby has the same trust in Shapen that Lane had in Dart and he and Lane had in Corral. I do agree that we need some short completions to boost his confidence though. Lane doesn't trust Chambliss, to take the deep shots, and you can tell that. I really doubt the offense would be all that much different if Lane was our HC tbh. Lane and Lebby are kindred spirits in how they call plays. They want to push the ball down the field as much as possible. They are going to have trust in a QB who has been in the system for multiple years or who they know that can handle it.

2. This offense is an RPO offense. Damn near every play call has an RPO element to it. To run this offense, Kamario needs to learn the offense to it's full potential. He doesn't right now, which is why he is panic keeping everything. He's reverting back to HS where he was the most dominant athlete on the field and could just run over or past everyone if things broke down.

3. We actually do call a good number of quick hitters early in ball games. The first drive is extremely scripted and we usually have a shot play about play 3-4. Last week was different because we took advantage of their secondary, which is why there were more shot plays called. Shapen couldn't have a completion percentage of 67% if all we called was shot plays.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I thought it was interesting that Herbstreit said that the weakness of Ole Miss's defense was their corners. The only real passing team that they have played this year was Arkansas and they gave up a ton of points to them.

But to your point Ole Miss has had a lot of problems stopping the run this year too.

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This would give me hope of an OKIE WIN THIS week but I’ve just read two different things about three major injuries on okie off line starters, center and both tackles if I read correctly......Many others hurt.......while om is injury free for the most part.....

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

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It would also help the receivers get separation on the deep routes. Double moves work better when the dbacks actually believe the first move.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

I posted here and was shot down that Shapen is not six feet and two inches. We cannot throw anything short and especially over the middle because he cannot see over the defensive line and as we know, he has little pocket awareness. Heck, I think he misses the bombs more often than not to our world-class wide receiver sprinter and Evans because he just throws it to where he thinks they will be as he can't see downfield.
He admitted he didn't see a 6'6 330 pound or so Florida nose guard who dropped back into coverage on a terrible playcall and even worse execution to a freshman wide receiver who has caught about four passes this year, and we were also told he ran the wrong pattern. What a 3-way cluster!

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chambliss is 6'1" maybe he wears heels

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

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We run a ton of curls.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

We had 26 seconds, 3 downs, and no time outs. I'm sorry - a pass play was not the wrong call in this situation. The execution sucked. I know everyone thinks "well he hit from 56 this year" - those are low percentage kicks. Even 5 more yards increases the %.
Passing was the best way to gain more yards and be efficient with the time. Run the ball and you risk a slow play, not getting OOB to stop the clock, followed by a slow clearing of the pile, and that time just runs out. We've also seen defenses use late substitutions to burn teams into delay of games. If that had happened, our fans would be even more off the wall about Lebby then they already are. "All we had to do was throw a quick out to the sideline to gain 5 yards, get OOB to stop the clock and be in better position - and the dummy ran off tackle into a pile of bodies with no time outs!"

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The pass wasn't a bad play call, but play calls must fit the personnel. Don't put the game in the worst QB in the SEC hand's when there's another option.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

A few of reasons for this:

1. Lebby has more trust in Shapen than Lane has in Chambliss. Right, wrong, or indifferent Lebby has the same trust in Shapen that Lane had in Dart and he and Lane had in Corral.

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Agree, but this is the biggest problem. He needs less trust in Shapen.

OK, so Shapen is not real tall. How tall was Rogers who WAS able to see over the Dlinemen. Just curios, that's all. Thanks guys.

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Originally Posted by ScooterDog

OK, so Shapen is not real tall. How tall was Rogers who WAS able to see over the Dlinemen. Just curios, that's all. Thanks guys.

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If you could have Shapen’s arm with Roger’s accuracy you would have one hell of a passing QB

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

And I think this is relevant because we run a similar offense. I noticed that with Chambliss Kiffin called mostly curl/hitch/stick routes which are easy completions and they net about 10 yards each time. They're almost gimmie yards.

And I know that Kiffin has a WCO background and that is some of it but I do wonder why Lebby doesn't do that with Shapen and KT? It's like all we run are RPO's, counter and shot plays. This would make our offense a lot better if we would just do that and it would help Shapen's confidence.

Stuff like this is what frustrates me with MSU football. It's something so simple and would make everything better but the guy in charge doesn't seem to notice.

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I don?t know, but Shapen is inaccurate and a poor decision maker.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

We had 26 seconds, 3 downs, and no time outs. I'm sorry - a pass play was not the wrong call in this situation. The execution sucked. I know everyone thinks "well he hit from 56 this year" - those are low percentage kicks. Even 5 more yards increases the %.
Passing was the best way to gain more yards and be efficient with the time. Run the ball and you risk a slow play, not getting OOB to stop the clock, followed by a slow clearing of the pile, and that time just runs out. We've also seen defenses use late substitutions to burn teams into delay of games. If that had happened, our fans would be even more off the wall about Lebby then they already are. "All we had to do was throw a quick out to the sideline to gain 5 yards, get OOB to stop the clock and be in better position - and the dummy ran off tackle into a pile of bodies with no time outs!"

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I still totally disagree with the passing play call, totally agree with horrible lack of execution by a 24 year old 5th(?) year QB WHO SAID HE DIDN'T SEE A 6'6" 330 LB nose guard drop into coverage. In addition the personnel on the field for this critical play was a Freshman WR who has caught 2 passes for 14 yards this year. But for us to have maybe 20 WR types on the roster this year and only two have really stepped out is a head scratcher as per evaluation or development.

Well, time to move on and beat TX for a chance to go 6-6. Bringing my grad son's next-door neighbor, from South Korea for his first "American football game". He has one doctorate , a couple of masters, working on second doctorate and teaches P.E. classes .

He is very excited and says we will win! Hail State!

I’ve seen much more DOG fball than most (old) and I don’t hate the call. I’ve seen YEARS and diff coaches of conservative plays dooming any chance of a win along with a prevent defense with way too much time left. I even like DM throwing against LSU, it took a lucky diving outstretched block by an all american linebacker to a WIDE open receiver. Years of watching Bellard lose two egg bowls going conservative runs depending on fb’s instead of a td to win.....lost both. Sherrill losing his second year EB by running some running back instead of stud Michael Davis at the goal line multiple times. Sherrill letting Tubby win in Dogtown by stopping throwing to wide open Tight ends and let JL Dunn go to a prevent and let Pine Box march down the field and win...........Yes being conservative wins some......but I’ve seen ALOT more loses sitting on a lead or a small lead......Hate away

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

I still totally disagree with the passing play call, totally agree with horrible lack of execution by a 24 year old 5th(?) year QB WHO SAID HE DIDN'T SEE A 6'6" 330 LB nose guard drop into coverage. In addition the personnel on the field for this critical play was a Freshman WR who has caught 2 passes for 14 yards this year. But for us to have maybe 20 WR types on the roster this year and only two have really stepped out is a head scratcher as per evaluation or development.

Well, time to move on and beat TX for a chance to go 6-6. Bringing my grad son's next-door neighbor, from South Korea for his first "American football game". He has one doctorate , a couple of masters, working on second doctorate and teaches P.E. classes .

He is very excited and says we will win! Hail State!

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Some of y'all hold players to ridiculous standards. QB's throw picks of all kinds - and that includes linemen dropping into coverage.
Let's go to the tape of NFL QB's getting picked on similar plays by large ass DL

https://youtu.be/-3N2hLorjns?si=7elbLYe4Vt-Fl9b6

https://www.chargers.com/video/terah...ams-pre-2-2025

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Some of y'all hold players to ridiculous standards. QB's throw picks of all kinds - and that includes linemen dropping into coverage.
Let's go to the tape of NFL QB's getting picked on similar plays by large ass DL

https://youtu.be/-3N2hLorjns?si=7elbLYe4Vt-Fl9b6

https://www.chargers.com/video/terah...ams-pre-2-2025

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I expect our veteran QB to hit a 5 to 7 yard pass, (or throw the ball away), and our WR's to run the pattern correctly when a play like this is called and at least give us a chance at the wiining FG.

It's in the rear-view window now. Today, we take down TX with our cleanest played game of the year in all three facets of the game and go 6-6 or with another miracle, (see ASU), 7-5. Have to beat TX. Hail State!