Sunday Morning Thoughts-Good Teams Win, Great Teams Cover

Another tough day yesterday in a tough season and in a tough last 22 months for this program. But hey, we covered for the 3rd straight week.

1. Our D played well enough to be in the game, but we left far too many plays out there. Heck we dropped to pick 6s within 4 plays of each other. It was obvious our game plan was make Weigman beat us with his arm and we excited that plan perfectly. We held them to their second lowest rushing total of the year, gave up 6 more than Arkansas. Unfortunately, Weigman executed his part of the plan perfectly as well.

2. 3rd Down was the difference in the game. Their ability to convert 3rd and medium and 3rd and long and our inability to convert 3rd and short won them the game. We just could not get off the field when it counted.

3. We have to get better on the D Line. They may be the worst MSU D Line in my lifetime. Weigman had an eternity to throw every time. We have to make an investment at that position in the portal.

4. Hutzler has improved. He has had our guys IN POSITION FAR MORE in the last 3 games than he did in the first 4. Unfortunately for us, we do not have the talent to complete the plays when they are in position to do so. Now will that save his job, probably not. But we have definitely improved schematically in the last 3.

5. Van Buren showed signs yesterday of being the answer, but he also showed signs of being a freshman. Look, there is no denying he has an absolute cannon. And an accurate one at that, but I felt like A&M made a concerted effort to take away the deep ball from him. In the first half, they were still playing a lot of man and he was still able to dissect it, but when they went zone in the second half you could see him start to struggle. He made some great throws yesterday, ie: the deep ball to Coleman and the TD to Craver, but he also missed his fair share as well. I still think if the opportunity presents itself, we will bring in a transfer.

6. The Craver injury is worrisome and the continued inability to get Akharaiyi the ball is concerning. But overall, our receiving core is as talented as it has been in a long time.

7. To the folks behind me yelling at Van Buren for sliding, IF HE GETS INJURED WE ARE DOWN TO PARSON AND JAKE WEIR. That is why we are being cautious with him. It is not because he is scared to get hit.

8. I actually did not hate the fake punt call. I mean we were not stopping them at all and at least you have the element of surprise right there instead of sending you offense out there and letting them pin their ears back. I actually was more mad about going for it in the red zone on the 1st drive, and we saw how that turned out.

9. If we continue to play the way we have been playing then 4 or 5 wins is not out of the realm of possibility. I would love to see a scenario where we are 4-7 going into the Egg Bowl. We would have everything to play for and OM would have nothing to play for with a coach with one foot out the door.

10. We need to use these last 5 games to figure out who we want long term and who we need to make sure knows how to enter the portal. I am not saying only play young guys to play them, but maybe get a look at a Xavier Gayten, or a Braylon Burnside, or a Kai McClendon.

11. It was absolutely incredible to see the 14 team come out of that tunnel with Dan leading them and Shipping Up To Boston playing. If that did not send a chill up your spine, well I can probably tell when you became a State fan.

12. Arkansas is as winnable of an SEC game as we will have coming home. They are wounded and are kind of wavering. We need to jump on them early. I think they may roll over if we do that.

Van Buren having some touch probably gets us another TD. That slant to Craver near the goal line had the safety out of position and he had his man beat. A little touch with some lead and it's a TD.

But Van Buren is clearly up to the task. That drive at the end of the half was beautiful. And give Luke Work credit. Another solid day for him. Our interior line was pretty bad.

Our DL in the worst I've ever seen. There's no pressure on the QB basically ever. So we have to blitz if we want to make the QB move from his spot. Why we didn't blitz on the 3rd and 23 I'm not sure. You can get away with a subpar secondary if your DL causes some havoc. We get no push ever. But credit to them for causing some turnovers. Ellington finishes the job and we might win that game.

This is clearly a team that has some young talent and a lot of older talent that isn't equipped to win ball games. But we've played two Top 5 teams and a Top 15 team and were squarely in it in the 4th quarter in all 3 of those games. When we hit the transfer portal, we need to upgrade the DL and OL badly. I almost don't care if we do anything else (although we need secondary help badly and a more dynamic RB). Go get 3 guys on each side of the line and make it happen.


Lebby has the chops to do this. Oklahoma's offense is a mess without him and our offense even with the talent gap has scored on good teams. We are improving drastically. Credit to Lebby for keeping the guys engaged. They all talk about what we are building. Lot of folks seem bought in. Hopefully he keeps them motivated because I believe we are doing certain things to prepare to win in the future.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

2. 3rd Down was the difference in the game. Their ability to convert 3rd and medium and 3rd and long and our inability to convert 3rd and short won them the game. We just could not get off the field when it counted.

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Another thing that hurt us was continually trying to run on 1st down (particularly in the 2nd half). It immediately put us in 2nd and 8 at best and many times 2nd and 10+ which let aTm pin their ears back and bring the kitchen sink after MVB on 2nd and 3rd down.

#1) The defense was absolutely horrible on 3rd down. The turnover are great but a defense can?t depend on turnovers. Some of those are QB mistakes.

#4) I thought I saw somebody say ( I thought it was you) that State has a MOU with a sitting P4 DC

#5) MVB made freshman mistakes but he is going to be a great one. The deep ball was taking away because A&M decided to bring the house and our G5 OL was outmatched. You can?t throw the deep ball when your OL can?t pass block. When your OL is bad, it shrinks your playbook.

#8) I absolutely hated the fake punt because where it was at on the field. A&M probably would have scored anyways but it isn?t guaranteed. I think it was only a one possession lead for A&M at that time.

I agree Van Buren has a cannon arm He also has a very quick release. It amazed me how quick he got the ball out with defensive players all around him and in his face.

5) If we bring in a transfer QB it should be for depth purposes only, MVB is the future. He has pretty much everything you want in a QB. Yes he makes some mistakes and will have to clean some trhings up but that comes with being a true Freshman QB. He's gone against Texas, Georgia and A&M and has shown everyone he belongs and the lights aren't too bright.

Fake punt is a call that, if it works you are a genius and if it fails you're an idiot.

I like the aggressiveness and our staff knows we are going to need some things, outside of normal gameplanning, to happen in our favor to pull out wins.

The first three games of this season were beyond awful, the past three games have been exciting to watch and we have been in all of them against 3 of the best teams in our conference.

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Dam the interior OL dam near got VB killed yesterday. Heck they could done better by just falling down and making the bull rush jump over them That would have at least slowed them down. Now also VB you're gonna have to do better in recognizing they are about to bullrush you and make adjustment.

Fake punts almost never work for us... It took Mullen several years to learn that and it gave them an easy TD ... in a game that is lost by 10 points it could have made a difference.
MVB should get the reins - transfer in a backup and continue to invest in the future.

Hutzler has definitely improved. He can't catch the ball for Ellington and Mitchell.

Wish MVB would get down by diving forward instead of sliding. Difference in 3 yards. You're down when your hips begin to sink if you slide.

Have not seen a transfer qb we could realistically get as a 2-10/3-9 team that id rather have than MVB. That includes Arnold.

I think Arkansas is better than Missouri.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Van Buren having some touch probably gets us another TD. That slant to Craver near the goal line had the safety out of position and he had his man beat. A little touch with some lead and it's a TD.

But Van Buren is clearly up to the task. That drive at the end of the half was beautiful. And give Luke Work credit. Another solid day for him. Our interior line was pretty bad.

Our DL in the worst I've ever seen. There's no pressure on the QB basically ever. So we have to blitz if we want to make the QB move from his spot. Why we didn't blitz on the 3rd and 23 I'm not sure. You can get away with a subpar secondary if your DL causes some havoc. We get no push ever. But credit to them for causing some turnovers. Ellington finishes the job and we might win that game.

This is clearly a team that has some young talent and a lot of older talent that isn't equipped to win ball games. But we've played two Top 5 teams and a Top 15 team and were squarely in it in the 4th quarter in all 3 of those games. When we hit the transfer portal, we need to upgrade the DL and OL badly. I almost don't care if we do anything else (although we need secondary help badly and a more dynamic RB). Go get 3 guys on each side of the line and make it happen.


Lebby has the chops to do this. Oklahoma's offense is a mess without him and our offense even with the talent gap has scored on good teams. We are improving drastically. Credit to Lebby for keeping the guys engaged. They all talk about what we are building. Lot of folks seem bought in. Hopefully he keeps them motivated because I believe we are doing certain things to prepare to win in the future.

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The slant to Craver was tipped. It was very slight but enough to cause the ball to wobble and drift behind him. Unfortunate but van Buren seems to sling some from the 3/4 arm slot

He will learn touch on the ball as he progresses. Remember his 1st couple of long balls be overthrew the receivers by a mile and now he can put it in a teacup.. Also he will learn he doesn't have to throw lazers on all short passes.

Saw these stats posted elsewhere:

Out of 133 FBS teams, we are:
#133 Sacks
#130 TFLs
#130 3rd Down DEF
#122 Total DEF
#121 Passing Efficiency DEF
#117 Scoring DEF
#114 Rush DEF
#112 Passing Yards Allowed

Talent or not we have the worst DC in the country. We can tell ourselves Hutzler has been improving and maybe has although he certainly couldn't get worse.

3rd and 23, Hutz rushes three. WTF?

Not bringing the house there is criminal. If Weigman hit a receiver before someone got him, so be it, but not bringing everyone on that play is just inept, shit coaching.

We are a competent defensive coordinator away from being a good team. Talent? Yeah, we need some but we need a guy that knows what to do with what he's got.

Defense is pitiful
The rest looks pretty good

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

Saw these stats posted elsewhere:

Out of 133 FBS teams, we are:
#133 Sacks
#130 TFLs
#130 3rd Down DEF
#122 Total DEF
#121 Passing Efficiency DEF
#117 Scoring DEF
#114 Rush DEF
#112 Passing Yards Allowed

Talent or not we have the worst DC in the country. We can tell ourselves Hutzler has been improving and maybe has although he certainly couldn't get worse.

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man that makes Peter Sermone look good. can anyone post his stats?

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Originally Posted by 99jc

man that makes Peter Sermone look good. can anyone post his stats?

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Go to Sixpack and read the thread "Fire Hutzler Now". Article from Columbus Dispatch is quoted showing more details of his $1 million per year four year contact. Even more terrible details than just the $4 million even if he leaves. BUT: What do I know? Our family couldn't even find our 8 seats in Section 4 after 55 plus years of sitting mainly in about the same seats.***** Did get the "Gameday" apology from MSU by email followed by another email wanting more $ to join "The Cristal Society".

where did your seats go?

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Go to Sixpack and read the thread "Fire Hutzler Now". Article from Columbus Dispatch is quoted showing more details of his $1 million per year four year contact. Even more terrible details than just the $4 million even if he leaves. BUT: What do I know? Our family couldn't even find our 8 seats in Section 4 after 55 plus years of sitting mainly in about the same seats.***** Did get the "Gameday" apology from MSU by email followed by another email wanting more $ to join "The Cristal Society".

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Can we get an explanation on this one? Do you mean someone was in your seats? Or like the seats had been physically removed?

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Hutzler has definitely improved. He can't catch the ball for Ellington and Mitchell.

Wish MVB would get down by diving forward instead of sliding. Difference in 3 yards. You're down when your hips begin to sink if you slide.

Have not seen a transfer qb we could realistically get as a 2-10/3-9 team that id rather have than MVB. That includes Arnold.

I think Arkansas is better than Missouri.

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Well we are going to go after a transfer QB and it is probably going to be Jackson Arnold. That has been in the cards since he was replaced during the Tennessee game for them and Shapen went down.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Well we are going to go after a transfer QB and it is probably going to be Jackson Arnold. That has been in the cards since he was replaced during the Tennessee game for them and Shapen went down.

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Who is he starting for????

1. Seriously doubt we go after Arnold. He's got baggage and wants a guaranteed starting spot. We don't need his drama.
2. We need a real DC on the worst way.
3. Recruiting on the defensive side has been awful minus a couple guys, especially the DL and Edge
4. Damn this offense will be great when we get an OL

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Originally Posted by parabrave

Who is he starting for????

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He'll compete with Van Buren. If Van Buren is as good as everyone on here thinks he is then he'll win the job. I do know for a fact that Arnold is not asking for a guaranteed starting spot. He was going to transfer out of all likelihood anyways. They went to OU SOLELY because of Lebby but they offered him the world to keep him so he wanted to stay for a year to see if they could make it work. If you had to ask me right now, Arnold wins the job. Familiarity with the offense and familiarity with Lebby. Lebby handpicked this guy to be his QB at Oklahoma after Gabriel.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

He'll compete with Van Buren. If Van Buren is as good as everyone on here thinks he is then he'll win the job. I do know for a fact that Arnold is not asking for a guaranteed starting spot. He was going to transfer out of all likelihood anyways. They went to OU SOLELY because of Lebby but they offered him the world to keep him so he wanted to stay for a year to see if they could make it work. If you had to ask me right now, Arnold wins the job. Familiarity with the offense and familiarity with Lebby. Lebby handpicked this guy to be his QB at Oklahoma after Gabriel.

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But now we have to worry about spending NIL in the right spots. And right now it seem we have more pressing needs than to have 2 high priced QBs because MVB price will probably go up..

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Originally Posted by parabrave

But now we have to worry about spending NIL in the right spots. And right now it seem we have more pressing needs than to have 2 high priced QBs because MVB price will probably go up..

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And that's where I've stopped short of saying it's a guarantee that we'll get Arnold, Mateer, Stone, Brown, etc. If the price is driven up too much then we have to back out. You have to always be looking to improve your team AT EVERY POSITION. But you can't get greedy trying to upgrade one when it is to the detriment of another. I mean if Auburn offers Arnold the world, which they may do, we can't get into a bidding war with Jimmy Rane because that would be of detriment to what we need on the DL, OL, and in the secondary. However, we got the money to get in some bidding wars. We got plenty of it.

Arnold isn't likely coming here and he wouldn't beat out MVB anyway. He's wanting NIL, and he's going to go somewhere where he's guaranteed a spot. He's got some issues that we don't need here either. I won't be surprised if he's playing more again at OK with the OC change.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Arnold isn't likely coming here and he wouldn't beat out MVB anyway. He's wanting NIL, and he's going to go somewhere where he's guaranteed a spot. He's got some issues that we don't need here either. I won't be surprised if he's playing more again at OK with the OC change.

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And he may. He's a lot closer to JJF than he ever was to Littrell. The family didn't like Littrell. I do think he transfers though. And I believe it will be here or Auburn. Baylor is a wild card depending on who they hire after Arranda gets canned, but I believe it comes down to those two schools. They want to stay in the SEC.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

He'll compete with Van Buren. If Van Buren is as good as everyone on here thinks he is then he'll win the job. I do know for a fact that Arnold is not asking for a guaranteed starting spot. He was going to transfer out of all likelihood anyways. They went to OU SOLELY because of Lebby but they offered him the world to keep him so he wanted to stay for a year to see if they could make it work. If you had to ask me right now, Arnold wins the job. Familiarity with the offense and familiarity with Lebby. Lebby handpicked this guy to be his QB at Oklahoma after Gabriel.

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Having another option at QB would be great, but I can't imagine that's going to be a priority when we've got a promising young QB, unless we don't think Van Buren will stay. Much better to roll the dice and know that we're screwed if Van Buren gets hurt than to pass on upgrading defense because we want to make sure we have a qb competition and a good backup. Could very well end up having NIL tied up in a backup that never plays while our lack of defensive talent ensures we can't win against decent teams.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

Having another option at QB would be great, but I can't imagine that's going to be a priority when we've got a promising young QB, unless we don't think Van Buren will stay. Much better to roll the dice and know that we're screwed if Van Buren gets hurt than to pass on upgrading defense because we want to make sure we have a qb competition and a good backup. Could very well end up having NIL tied up in a backup that never plays while our lack of defensive talent ensures we can't win against decent teams.

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Again, I'm not saying go overspend to have a QB. I am saying that we are going to go get a QB and there will be a competition. I mean why are people not saying that we need to pull Kamario Taylor's scholarship since Van Buren is only a freshman. I mean half of y'all were telling me a month ago that Taylor was better than Van Buren and Van Buren would never play. Now we have to go balls to the walls to make sure there's no competition.

I think we need healthy competition with the QBs but spending a ton on Arnold would be stupid. There will be a few good QBs on the market we could probably snag cheaper. Van Buren has the team more so than I thought. I've definitely cooled on bringing Arnold in as option, especially if he expects a starting job. I'd much rather money go to the defensive side of the ball. We are a corner, edge rusher and maybe a stout blitzing LB from a good defense. Oh, and a DC that knows what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I think we need healthy competition with the QBs but spending a ton on Arnold would be stupid. There will be a few good QBs on the market we could probably snag cheaper. Van Buren has the team more so than I thought. I've definitely cooled on bringing Arnold in as option, especially if he expects a starting job. I'd much rather money go to the defensive side of the ball. We are a corner, edge rusher and maybe a stout blitzing LB from a good defense. Oh, and a DC that knows what he's doing.

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That I agree with. If the tag is too pricey, or he wants a guaranteed spot then you pass. We can go find a guy who will want to compete as there will be more than a few out there. However, we have money to spend on a top QB and money to go get top tier defensive talent.

Surely we spend our money on defense and o lineman, not another QB.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

Saw these stats posted elsewhere:

Out of 133 FBS teams, we are:
#133 Sacks
#130 TFLs
#130 3rd Down DEF
#122 Total DEF
#121 Passing Efficiency DEF
#117 Scoring DEF
#114 Rush DEF
#112 Passing Yards Allowed

Talent or not we have the worst DC in the country. We can tell ourselves Hutzler has been improving and maybe has although he certainly couldn't get worse.

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I've been off the Hutzler train since Florida.
But it's hard to know what he is capable of when we have G5 defense talent wise, at best. Actually, we have guys playing that couldn't get in the field at G5 schools last year.

I'm good with moving on, but it's way more a talent problem than coaching.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

3rd and 23, Hutz rushes three. WTF?

Not bringing the house there is criminal. If Weigman hit a receiver before someone got him, so be it, but not bringing everyone on that play is just inept, shit coaching.

We are a competent defensive coordinator away from being a good team. Talent? Yeah, we need some but we need a guy that knows what to do with what he's got.

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So you want to play cover 0 there? That's probably 6 if you do that with our secondary.
I mean I'm not against trying it at this point, but we don't have the talent to run it so just as likely to not work as dropping 8.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Well we are going to go after a transfer QB and it is probably going to be Jackson Arnold. That has been in the cards since he was replaced during the Tennessee game for them and Shapen went down.

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Ok. That's risky though. Personally I would not.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

So you want to play cover 0 there? That's probably 6 of you do with our secondary.
I mean I'm not against trying it at this point, but we don't have the talent to run it so just as likely to not work as dropping 8.

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Dropping 8 did absolutely DICK. Bring the ****ing house. If he beats you, he beats. Dropping 8 on 3rd and 23 was bending over. Those three dropped interceptions we had were b/c we actually got some pressure on Weigman.

I think it's funny that you are worried about MVB sliding as if him getting hurt would make a damn in this season. We are going 2-10 or 3-9 anyway. Who gives a sh*T if he gets hurt running the offense at this point? It literally does not matter. The people yelling at him for sliding are right. He doesn't need to be an idiot and play like Corral, but he needs to run the offense and stop acting like it matters to this team or season if he happens to get hurt doing so.

So what's going on with Shapen? I thought I heard somewhere he was trying for another year of eligibility?

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I think it's funny that you are worried about MVB sliding as if him getting hurt would make a damn in this season. We are going 2-10 or 3-9 anyway. Who gives a sh*T if he gets hurt running the offense at this point? It literally does not matter. The people yelling at him for sliding are right. He doesn't need to be an idiot and play like Corral, but he needs to run the offense and stop acting like it matters to this team or season if he happens to get hurt doing so.

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Because if we look like hell on offense, the current skill players we have, who are good by the way, will transfer. I mean if we run Parson out there, who apparently can't complete a forward pass or Jake Weir, who I know would get killed in an actual D1 football game, we will look like hell. Let's keep our QB healthy and actually look good on offense.