Portal Recruiting is still a guess like HS recruiting

Hayden Schott is A&M's leading hitter average-wise. Rated about the 100th best player in the portal.

They got him from the Ivy League- Columbia.

We can throw example after example out there but pearl clutching about portal pick-ups is just a guess like HS recruiting is.

College Baseball has finally become Big Business like Football and Basketball. We have to be the Moneyball club like Mullen did with football.

I like that we are hitting the G5's hard and working them for their best guys. It's our path forward

I agree that targeting some of the G5 teams best players is a great strategy. Baseball is a sport that I feel overlooks more talent than the others. I also think that the progression of players is more drastic in baseball where the slightest adjustments can increase a pitchers velocity by 5 mph. However, I do not think that we have to play moneyball. Mississippi State is a major brand in the baseball world and know for having one of the best atmospheres and fans in the country. That?s definitely plays to our advantage many of these kids want to play in front of a crowd and we offer that.

What does the term “moneyball” mean? I believe this was a movie or part of one but I never saw it and don’t get the reference.

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Originally Posted by bigbub50

What does the term “moneyball” mean? I believe this was a movie or part of one but I never saw it and don’t get the reference.

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Getting a G5 guy is alot cheaper for the most part vs trying to get a P5 player

It is a movie about the Oakland A?s and basically they can?t compete with other teams pay roles so they have to find a way to construct a roster without being able to go and be the biggest free agents. So they go and get guys that have been over looked or past their prime that analyticaly fit the mold they are using to build the team.

Value-based baseball.

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Originally Posted by bigbub50

What does the term “moneyball” mean? I believe this was a movie or part of one but I never saw it and don’t get the reference.

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Google Bill James and SABRmetrics.

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Originally Posted by Young dawg

I agree that targeting some of the G5 teams best players is a great strategy. Baseball is a sport that I feel overlooks more talent than the others. I also think that the progression of players is more drastic in baseball where the slightest adjustments can increase a pitchers velocity by 5 mph. However, I do not think that we have to play moneyball. Mississippi State is a major brand in the baseball world and know for having one of the best atmospheres and fans in the country. That?s definitely plays to our advantage many of these kids want to play in front of a crowd and we offer that.

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Good post

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Originally Posted by Young dawg

However, I do not think that we have to play moneyball. Mississippi State is a major brand in the baseball world and know for having one of the best atmospheres and fans in the country. That?s definitely plays to our advantage many of these kids want to play in front of a crowd and we offer that.

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It helps us in relation to the rest of the country but doesnt really help when competing against most of the SEC- which is what it takes to compete for the NC

I think the biggest thing that has hurt our recruiting is that awful stretch that we went through in sec play the previous couple of years. I also think that half the fan base wanting the coach fired and the other day keep him could cause certain recruits to stray away due to there not being guaranteed stability. However, I think that this previous year should help with recruiting especially with pitchers.

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Originally Posted by bigbub50

What does the term “moneyball” mean? I believe this was a movie or part of one but I never saw it and don’t get the reference.

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It just means you should lower your expectations for MSU baseball. Look at what the 2 current teams playing for the NC have been doing in the portal and then look at what we are doing.

The portal isn't as risky if you've (A) signed great classes (B) developed talent.
The portal as a total rebuilding tool is far more risky when the needs are greater. We aren't signing a bunch of portal guys. Were going to go with what we've got pretty much, if everyone stays and the draft doesn't ding us.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Hayden Schott is A&M's leading hitter average-wise. Rated about the 100th best player in the portal.

They got him from the Ivy League- Columbia.

We can throw example after example out there but pearl clutching about portal pick-ups is just a guess like HS recruiting is.

College Baseball has finally become Big Business like Football and Basketball. We have to be the Moneyball club like Mullen did with football.

I like that we are hitting the G5's hard and working them for their best guys. It's our path forward

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Is it a guess, or actually better evaluations by the A&M staff?

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Originally Posted by Santiago

Is it a guess, or actually better evaluations by the A&M staff?

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I've seen better evaluations in a bar at 2 AM

Guys cut the money ball crap. The money is there. We haven?t spent half our baseball NIL the last three years.

What we have is the Mullen country club coaching staff. They aren?t out hustling and trying to get real players or develop them. Prospects don?t like lemon either so he is a hard sell to kids. He just can?t connect/relate to them.

We need a Lebby in baseball. Get that and we take off.

Boom. Pinto done hit it right out the park early on Monday. Thx for speaking the obvious.

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Originally Posted by Pinto

Guys cut the money ball crap. The money is there. We haven?t spent half our baseball NIL the last three years.

What we have is the Mullen country club coaching staff. They aren?t out hustling and trying to get real players or develop them. Prospects don?t like lemon either so he is a hard sell to kids. He just can?t connect/relate to them.

We need a Lebby in baseball. Get that and we take off.

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This is mostly true regarding available funds. We had top 3 money in the league last year to spend on Holman and Montgomery and Molina etc... but spent middle of the pack money because those guys said no and there was no need to overpay for Stephen and Kohler etc....

Now where we are this year nobody has told me directly. I know the basketball team is costing a fortune but not sure about the overall pool of funds.

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Originally Posted by Pinto

Guys cut the money ball crap. The money is there. We haven?t spent half our baseball NIL the last three years.

What we have is the Mullen country club coaching staff. They aren?t out hustling and trying to get real players or develop them. Prospects don?t like lemon either so he is a hard sell to kids. He just can?t connect/relate to them.

We need a Lebby in baseball. Get that and we take off.

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So why does he pull top recruits like Bednar, Jordan, Jerk, Cupp, Grant, Stevens, etc? How does he get all these Top 150 or better recruits if he is so lazy and nobody likes him?

Seems as if he not only needs those type guys but simply more of them to compete with Vitello and Schloss. like a blind squirrel maybe?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

So why does he pull top recruits like Bednar, Jordan, Jerk, Cupp, Grant, Stevens, etc? How does he get all these Top 150 or better recruits if he is so lazy and nobody likes him?

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Was he pulling those caliber players at Indiana?
So it is our program that gives the edge.

Is that all that can be named as great recruits over the past 4 years ?

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Originally Posted by Santiago

Was he pulling those caliber players at Indiana?
So it is our program that gives the edge.

Is that all that can be named as great recruits over the past 4 years ?

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Wait dont change the subject. You guys were saying that recruits dont like him. So I just pointed out he is getting highly rated recruits from all over the country.

Bednar drafted 1st round 2021
Sims/Tanner drafted in the Top 55 in 2022. Sims was easy 1st rounder until surgery
Ledbetter in 2023 at 55
Now Jordan and Jerk are 1st round to early 2nd round here in 2024. We will have 7/8/9 drafted total in July.

He's basically recruiting as we always have. Hell, our hitting numbers this year were very comparable to 2021 minus the lack of power.

The problem is NIL/Portal has changed college baseball. Other SEC schools are now putting lots of money into baseball where they didnt before. Kentucky was bad but now thanks to NIL they are making Supers and Omaha. Our coaching staff is not even top half of the SEC now in pay.

Lemon and Bunko didnt suddenly become bad coaches. NIL has changed the game and pushed other programs onto the same level as us and Mississippi. When 6 different SEC program are winning the NC in the last 7 years- that tells you baseball is different these days. We can hire whomever- but I fully expect us to be South Carolina for the next decade trying to reclaim our best run in program history then pouting and blaming coach after coach when it doesnt happen.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

So why does he pull top recruits like Bednar, Jordan, Jerk, Cupp, Grant, Stevens, etc? How does he get all these Top 150 or better recruits if he is so lazy and nobody likes him?

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My issue with Lemonis recruiting isn't that he can't pull some great talent, that's obvious by who you listed, it's that he can't fill a full roster around those guys. No depth and gaps in the lineup/on the field have left us with terrible to ok at best results.

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Originally Posted by DawgFromOxford

My issue with Lemonis recruiting isn't that he can't pull some great talent, that's obvious by who you listed, it's that he can't fill a full roster around those guys. No depth and gaps in the lineup/on the field have left us with terrible to ok at best results.

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We were def one more bat short in 2024. Needed one guy capable of hitting in that 3-6 range. Thats on Lemon for sure. But we also had numerous injuries that hurt us this year as well. Take Kohler for example- get's hurt opening day and struggles for half the season. Was hitting .200 around the half way point. But the guy hit .303 the last 20 games of the season when he finally got healthy and adjusted. Downs got hurt for awhile and was in and out of the line-up but hit .370 the last 7 games he played in- including .400 in the Regional. Staying healthier would help us alot- and maybe we need to look at what we are doing S&C-wise.

2025 will be big for Lemon. We are taking 7-8 portal guys and rolling with the rest. We already have 4 portals- and no arms yet. Parker needs to close some dudes because we need at least 1 weekend guy and 2 to be safe

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We were def one more bat short in 2024. Needed one guy capable of hitting in that 3-6 range. Thats on Lemon for sure. But we also had numerous injuries that hurt us this year as well. Take Kohler for example- get's hurt opening day and struggles for half the season. Was hitting .200 around the half way point. But the guy hit .303 the last 20 games of the season when he finally got healthy and adjusted. Downs got hurt for awhile and was in and out of the line-up but hit .370 the last 7 games he played in- including .400 in the Regional. Staying healthier would help us alot- and maybe we need to look at what we are doing S&C-wise.

2025 will be big for Lemon. We are taking 7-8 portal guys and rolling with the rest. We already have 4 portals- and no arms yet. Parker needs to close some dudes because we need at least 1 weekend guy and 2 to be safe

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That's not to mention Highfill. Assuming a step forward from him, that's missing a .250 or higher hitter with 15 HR.

I think another adjustment we are going to see is that the SEC will have a higher talent ceiling, but that depth will be and issue because of the portal. Guys want to play, and there will be as much movement down to G5 as much as there is up.
I think we saw some of that this season because of our performance the past 2.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

That's not to mention Highfill. Assuming a step forward from him, that's missing a .250 or higher hitter with 15 HR.

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100%. We brought Long in as a late inning replacement for Highfill and to give him a day off from time to time. He's hurt in the Fall- leaving us scrounging around. We get Powell because of Parker and those 2 end up our catchers.

Curious to see what Highfill does this coming season. Do you catch him after surgery or do you move his to another position thats easier on the arm? You have to think the plan is to have his bat in there somewhere

I'll pay attention when he fields a team with adequate backups you know kinda like A&M has. thx in advance

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Originally Posted by Pancho

I'll pay attention when he fields a team with adequate backups you know kinda like A&M has. thx in advance

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Those days are likely gone now

For Lemo? he must really not be attractive then. We need more than a blah tour guide for a kids OV.

From my perspective, Lemo and crew are good recruiters. They aren't Tony V level but still really good. I think we're underestimating the foxhall impact. Not only was he not doing a good job coaching but when your pitching coach doesn't show up for Prospect Camps that's a problem and looks bad not only to pitchers but other recruits as well. (These weren't the Mickey Mouse camps for the little kids, these were the big boy camps). Also, previously, baseball recruiting was done at a very early age and we got hurt by our coaching turnover. It happens.

Overall I think Lemondoes has pretty good job recruiting given all the circumstances. My issue is development. I haven't seen a player make a huge jump since Foscue. I feel like we used to this routinely under Cohen; our guys got better over time. Also, it seems like every year we spent the first month and a half monkeying with the line up, rotation, who goes where in the field etc. there are always going to be adjustments but it feels like we start the season completely winging it. Maybe it's just recency bias though.

For me this season couldn't have worked out worse for us. While I'm glad we made post season, I think the way it played out just kept us in limbo. I wanted us to win or lose convincingly enough one way or the other to either feel confident in our coach going forward (this was my preferred path) or lose to the point where we knew it's time to go in a different direction.

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Originally Posted by Randolph Dupree

From my perspective, Lemo and crew are good recruiters. They aren't Tony V level but still really good. I think we're underestimating the foxhall impact. Not only was he not doing a good job coaching but when your pitching coach doesn't show up for Prospect Camps that's a problem and looks bad not only to pitchers but other recruits as well. (These weren't the Mickey Mouse camps for the little kids, these were the big boy camps). Also, previously, baseball recruiting was done at a very early age and we got hurt by our coaching turnover. It happens.

Overall I think Lemondoes has pretty good job recruiting given all the circumstances. My issue is development. I haven't seen a player make a huge jump since Foscue. I feel like we used to this routinely under Cohen; our guys got better over time. Also, it seems like every year we spent the first month and a half monkeying with the line up, rotation, who goes where in the field etc. there are always going to be adjustments but it feels like we start the season completely winging it. Maybe it's just recency bias though.

For me this season couldn't have worked out worse for us. While I'm glad we made post season, I think the way it played out just kept us in limbo. I wanted us to win or lose convincingly enough one way or the other to either feel confident in our coach going forward (this was my preferred path) or lose to the point where we knew it's time to go in a different direction.

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This is where perceptions meets reality again. One issue we have is everyone wants all our Freshman to come in and be Jake Mangum or Landon Sims - and it doesn't work like that.
When they don't perform like that, some people write them off as a bust, and don't look at how they actually do develop because "Lemo Bad". If they do develop - it's more about Lemo/Goat not giving them a chance before or some BS like that.
Let's look at guys just post '21, and just offense.

Cumbest - '21 - .306, 5 HR 21 RBI .532 SLG .372 OBP; '22 - .302 15 HR 39 RBI .584 SLG .347 OBP - Not huge improvement, but not bad. Good enough to get drafted.
Kellum Clark '21 - .237 5 HR 16 RBI .495 SLG .355 OBP; '22 - .257 14 HR 43 RBI .556 SLG .369 OBP; '23 - .299 11 HR 29 RBI .545 SLG . .394 OBP - Improvement. Good enough to get drafted.

Dakota Jordan - '23: .307 10 HR 40 RBI .575 SLG .397 OBP (true freshman); '24: .354 20 HR 72 RBI .671 SLG .459 OBP - Big jumps everywhere, First Round Pick in 3 weeks. Yet our coaches get no credit?
David Mershon - '23: .280 0 HR 5 RBI (true freshman); '24: .347 6 HR 41 RBI .500 SLG .454 OBP - Huge jumps - Our coaches get no credit here either??
Connor Hujsak - '23: .238 2 HR 9 RBI .452 SLG .277 OBP; '24 .325 9 HR 49 RBI .555 SLG .413 OBP - All you hear is "Lemo should have used him last year": no credit for helping a guy adjust and break out - will likely be drafted.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

This is where perceptions meets reality again. One issue we have is everyone wants all our Freshman to come in and be Jake Mangum or Landon Sims - and it doesn't work like that.
When they don't perform like that, some people write them off as a bust, and don't look at how they actually do develop because "Lemo Bad". If they do develop - it's more about Lemo/Goat not giving them a chance before or some BS like that.
Let's look at guys just post '21, and just offense.

Cumbest - '21 - .306, 5 HR 21 RBI .532 SLG .372 OBP; '22 - .302 15 HR 39 RBI .584 SLG .347 OBP - Not huge improvement, but not bad. Good enough to get drafted.
Kellum Clark '21 - .237 5 HR 16 RBI .495 SLG .355 OBP; '22 - .257 14 HR 43 RBI .556 SLG .369 OBP; '23 - .299 11 HR 29 RBI .545 SLG . .394 OBP - Improvement. Good enough to get drafted.

Dakota Jordan - '23: .307 10 HR 40 RBI .575 SLG .397 OBP (true freshman); '24: .354 20 HR 72 RBI .671 SLG .459 OBP - Big jumps everywhere, First Round Pick in 3 weeks. Yet our coaches get no credit?
David Mershon - '23: .280 0 HR 5 RBI (true freshman); '24: .347 6 HR 41 RBI .500 SLG .454 OBP - Huge jumps - Our coaches get no credit here either??
Connor Hujsak - '23: .238 2 HR 9 RBI .452 SLG .277 OBP; '24 .325 9 HR 49 RBI .555 SLG .413 OBP - All you hear is "Lemo should have used him last year": no credit for helping a guy adjust and break out - will likely be drafted.

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IMO you're the best and most rational baseball poster we have on this board. You're always balanced because if it's bad you say it's bad if it's good you say it's good and you always back it up with facts. That's rare right now on here because there seems to be a clear line of demarcation with Lemonis and staff. Please don't stop posting.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

IMO you're the best and most rational baseball poster we have on this board. You're always balanced because if it's bad you say it's bad if it's good you say it's good and you always back it up with facts. That's rare right now on here because there seems to be a clear line of demarcation with Lemonis and staff. Please don't stop posting.

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Appreciate it CC. I fall somewhere in the middle on Lemonis. For every bit of good, there is something bad. For each one of those names in the last post you can match or equal with a player who didn't develop. But, when you have guys like Jake Mangum sing his praises it's hard to give up on the guy. Like you though, I've hit that point in my life where sports is about enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to dwell on the players and coaches and the minutia of who did or didn't do something and make me hate losing more than I enjoy winning. I'll discuss it. I'll give you some stats and comparisons to consider -but I'm not going to argue and demand someone FIX THIS OR ELSE!! from my position as a keyboard jockey. We need a lot less of that.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

Appreciate it CC. I fall somewhere in the middle on Lemonis. For every bit of good, there is something bad. For each one of those names in the last post you can match or equal with a player who didn't develop. But, when you have guys like Jake Mangum sing his praises it's hard to give up on the guy. Like you though, I've hit that point in my life where sports is about enjoyment of the game. I'm not going to dwell on the players and coaches and the minutia of who did or didn't do something and make me hate losing more than I enjoy winning. I'll discuss it. I'll give you some stats and comparisons to consider -but I'm not going to argue and demand someone FIX THIS OR ELSE!! from my position as a keyboard jockey. We need a lot less of that.

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Right there with ya, 100%! Me and you gonna have to get together and just shoot the breeze about baseball sometimes, I would enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

This is where perceptions meets reality again. One issue we have is everyone wants all our Freshman to come in and be Jake Mangum or Landon Sims - and it doesn't work like that.
When they don't perform like that, some people write them off as a bust, and don't look at how they actually do develop because "Lemo Bad". If they do develop - it's more about Lemo/Goat not giving them a chance before or some BS like that.
Let's look at guys just post '21, and just offense.

Cumbest - '21 - .306, 5 HR 21 RBI .532 SLG .372 OBP; '22 - .302 15 HR 39 RBI .584 SLG .347 OBP - Not huge improvement, but not bad. Good enough to get drafted.
Kellum Clark '21 - .237 5 HR 16 RBI .495 SLG .355 OBP; '22 - .257 14 HR 43 RBI .556 SLG .369 OBP; '23 - .299 11 HR 29 RBI .545 SLG . .394 OBP - Improvement. Good enough to get drafted.

Dakota Jordan - '23: .307 10 HR 40 RBI .575 SLG .397 OBP (true freshman); '24: .354 20 HR 72 RBI .671 SLG .459 OBP - Big jumps everywhere, First Round Pick in 3 weeks. Yet our coaches get no credit?
David Mershon - '23: .280 0 HR 5 RBI (true freshman); '24: .347 6 HR 41 RBI .500 SLG .454 OBP - Huge jumps - Our coaches get no credit here either??
Connor Hujsak - '23: .238 2 HR 9 RBI .452 SLG .277 OBP; '24 .325 9 HR 49 RBI .555 SLG .413 OBP - All you hear is "Lemo should have used him last year": no credit for helping a guy adjust and break out - will likely be drafted.

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This all day long.