Rush 3 drop 8

Thanks Scoob for fixing this.

Is the mood changing around this issue? I know we are all kind of giddy after what the team just did to A&M, a lot of talk about they didn't run much 3-8 and a lot of talk that they couldn't stop us using the 3-8 so they had to change.

Where are we at with this?

I think we are somewhere in the middle, a lot of you folks think the Kentucky game is going to be our test. I honestly feel like Bama is going to be our test, reason being is I agree with Gun on this issue that if the Airbone ran correctly it neutralizes top talent defenses and forces the defense to play bland ball. If this is the case and we are able to hold our on verse Bama's dline, and we build off of last week. We should move the ball pretty well at least between the 20s. We have always struggled to score in the red-zone outside of '14 and '17. So, we will see what happens there. BUT! If we can hold our water verse their line and move the ball on them, my opinion is that this offense will work in this conference and we should be very excited.

Last thing, the above only works if we can stop their pass rush. If we cannot stop their rush then the whole thought dies. Until we can block 3 with 5 or 4 with five on a consistent basis we will never know if the Airbone will work.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

Thanks Scoob for fixing this.

Is the mood changing around this issue? I know we are all kind of giddy after what the team just did to A&M, a lot of talk about they didn't run much 3-8 and a lot of talk that they couldn't stop us using the 3-8 so they had to change.

Where are we at with this?

I think we are somewhere in the middle, a lot of you folks think the Kentucky game is going to be our test. I honestly feel like Bama is going to be our test, reason being is I agree with Gun on this issue that if the Airbone ran correctly it neutralizes top talent defenses and forces the defense to play bland ball. If this is the case and we are able to hold our on verse Bama's dline, and we build off of last week. We should move the ball pretty well at least between the 20s. We have always struggled to score in the red-zone outside of '14 and '17. So, we will see what happens there. BUT! If we can hold our water verse their line and move the ball on them, my opinion is that this offense will work in this conference and we should be very excited.

Last thing, the above only works if we can stop their pass rush. If we cannot stop their rush then the whole thought dies. Until we can block 3 with 5 or 4 with five on a consistent basis we will never know if the Airbone will work.

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I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. We are running the offense better. I don't think we're running it well yet. Plus, unlike A&M, we're not going to have the advantage of going up against a mediocre offense. They can pass and will score on us, which is going to put more pressure on the offense. Maybe that actually helps us by forcing Will to be more aggressive, but I am expecting it to be too much.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

Thanks Scoob for fixing this.

Is the mood changing around this issue? I know we are all kind of giddy after what the team just did to A&M, a lot of talk about they didn't run much 3-8 and a lot of talk that they couldn't stop us using the 3-8 so they had to change.

Where are we at with this?

I think we are somewhere in the middle, a lot of you folks think the Kentucky game is going to be our test. I honestly feel like Bama is going to be our test, reason being is I agree with Gun on this issue that if the Airbone ran correctly it neutralizes top talent defenses and forces the defense to play bland ball. If this is the case and we are able to hold our on verse Bama's dline, and we build off of last week. We should move the ball pretty well at least between the 20s. We have always struggled to score in the red-zone outside of '14 and '17. So, we will see what happens there. BUT! If we can hold our water verse their line and move the ball on them, my opinion is that this offense will work in this conference and we should be very excited.

Last thing, the above only works if we can stop their pass rush. If we cannot stop their rush then the whole thought dies. Until we can block 3 with 5 or 4 with five on a consistent basis we will never know if the Airbone will work.

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I agree. That's why I think we'll cover the 21. I feel like we'll consistently play to our opponent for the most part. While talent and coaching will still matter, worse teams that play disciplined football will still compete with us, and more talented teams than us will struggle b/c we'll be able to move the ball, but if they play disciplined, they should still win most of the time.

In the end Bama will be too good to overcome, b/c they'll play disciplined against us and their talent is a couple of levels above us. I still feel if we are making progress, we'll be able move the ball on them, take up a lot of time and score some. I just hope our entire group of running backs aren't all concussed by half time for being used as tackle dummies by the Bama linebackers coming in like heat seeking missiles.

Leach's offense largely removes the physicality advantage at the line of scrimmage we have against G5 teams which is largely why Memphis and la tech can play with us, but also removes the physicality disadvantage we have at the line of scrimmage against the 5 stars of the world, which is largely why we can beat LSU and Aggie and play with Uga. Pass blocking is easier than moving a stronger, faster DL out of the way.

I hope Bama runs the 3-8 vs us. That will give Will time to throw & we'll play ball control, which will lead to a pretty low scoring game.

We may not score many points, but, if Bama plays a 3-8, there's a good chance it's 21-10 or so entering the 4th quarter.

It's just super hard for a defense to dominate a competent offense while running a 3-8. Sure you can keep everything in front of you, but that still means we're picking up 1st downs, running clock, & keeping the ball.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Leach's offense largely removes the physicality advantage at the line of scrimmage we have against G5 teams which is largely why Memphis and la tech can play with us, but also removes the physicality disadvantage we have at the line of scrimmage against the 5 stars of the world, which is largely why we can beat LSU and Aggie and play with Uga. Pass blocking is easier than moving a stronger, faster DL out of the way.

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Correct. There is a give & take.

Leach's offense gives the bad teams our schedule a chance due to removing the physicality of the offense while also giving us a chance to beat anyone

If I’m Saban, I would play blitz 8 and drop 3. We would prolly be -yards…

If we make it through the Bama hame healthy, I will be happy…

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

If I’m Saban, I would play blitz 8 and drop 3. We would prolly be -yards…

If we make it through the Bama hame healthy, I will be happy…

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We'd score 50 if they did this

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

We'd score 50 if they did this

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Bama will dominate the LOS, they are the most physical team we will play by far. I'm not seeing us being very physical, we give up lots of points and we struggle mostly in the second halves. We have played two good teams and 2 bad teams and another average team at best.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Bama will dominate the LOS

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We'll see. I'm cautiously optimistic after LSU & Bama that they won't dominate the LOS

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

We'll see. I'm cautiously optimistic after LSU & Bama that they won't dominate the LOS

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You remind me of a good friend, we is all in with the Pirate, he has been saying "gotta give him time to get his recruits, season two isn't enough" So after we beat a top 15 way over rated Coach and team, his thoughts were 'We've turned the corner"! I laughed and told him I thought season two wasn't enough time to judge. His reply was well maybe you are correct but......

Bama is just on a different level, so I want be surprised unless we play them to the end, can't see it.

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Originally Posted by basedog

You remind me of a good friend, we is all in with the Pirate, he has been saying "gotta give him time to get his recruits, season two isn't enough" So after we beat a top 15 way over rated Coach and team, his thoughts were 'We've turned the corner"! I laughed and told him I thought season two wasn't enough time to judge. His reply was well maybe you are correct but......

Bama is just on a different level, so I want be surprised unless we play them to the end, can't see it.

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That's fine. After the past 13 years, I totally understand why we probably should expect to blown out. I can't blame anyone for that.

I'm just saying that I do see a path to competitiveness in this game. There may only be a 30% chance of it coming to fruition, but I do feel like, if there is a style of team that can give Bama a run, it's our style that SHOULD give them the most trouble.

A&M is going to end up 2-6...maybe 3-5 in the SEC if they get a break. They are just very limited offensively this season.

Bama and Georgia are just alot better than everyone. Bama up 42-7 on Mississippi should have convinced you of that.

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

That's fine. After the past 13 years, I totally understand why we probably should expect to blown out. I can't blame anyone for that.

I'm just saying that I do see a path to competitiveness in this game. There may only be a 30% chance of it coming to fruition, but I do feel like, if there is a style of team that can give Bama a run, it's our style that SHOULD give them the most trouble.

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I sure wish and hope you are correct Gun, but I've seen way more games against Bama to have a fussy feeling of playing them close. In my lifetime only a few times have I seen us beat Bama, Emory, JWS, and Croom. I will say I never will forget the night in Jackson my freshman year when Bama had Johnny Musso as a running back and we had a hurt QB in Tommy Pharr.
Before the game Coach Charlie Shira told Coach Bear Bryant if Pharr got hurt we had no one to play QB the rest of the game. Bama didn't put much pressure of Pharr and he had an awesome game and we almost beat them that night! I wish the Pirate we use this strategy and Saba would play lose on defense, LOL
Btw, most have not a clue about Pharr, when he came to Msu he was a running QB and a good one. He then worked hard at throwing the ball and was the most improved passer in my lifetime I ever watched. He would have been the perfect QB in the so called Air Raid. Also David Smith and Sammy Milner were great wideouts in that offense.
Sorry to bring up the past.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A&M is going to end up 2-6...maybe 3-5 in the SEC if they get a break. They are just very limited offensively this season.

Bama and Georgia are just alot better than everyone. Bama up 42-7 on Mississippi should have convinced you of that.

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Texas A&M is very good on defense and particularly up front. When we play Alabama we will be facing the same level talent up front that we faced against A&M. I don’t expect us to win the game because our defense is a bit overrated in my opinion and Alabama will be able to score, but I expect us to move the ball well on Alabama. Our OL has protected very well for the past 3 weeks, 2 of which we were facing elite defensive fronts. We will play them a lot better than Ole Miss did.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A&M is going to end up 2-6...maybe 3-5 in the SEC if they get a break. They are just very limited offensively this season.

Bama and Georgia are just alot better than everyone. Bama up 42-7 on Mississippi should have convinced you of that.

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They also beat Fla by 2. They are good but if we get blown out I'll be disappointed. I see 38-17.

And I'm not crowning Mississippi yet. They've beaten a 1-5 Tulane, a horrible Austin peay, and a meh Louisville. They didn't beat anybody with a pulse last year either (KY, Vandy, Usce, and us). Popcorn has 1 sec west win and it was at home by 7 points against a 3-7 state team that had 49 players. Tomorrow is a must win for Kernel Reb or the narrative i just laid out will run wild next week.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A&M is going to end up 2-6...maybe 3-5 in the SEC if they get a break. They are just very limited offensively this season.

Bama and Georgia are just alot better than everyone. Bama up 42-7 on Mississippi should have convinced you of that.

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I totally get it. OM couldn't run the ball on Bama and their offense requires that and the score of the OM Bama game also has a lot to do with Kiffin going for it on 4th and giving them short fields.

You're probably right. Is it ok if I try to figure out a way that we'll be competitive though? Can I try?

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Originally Posted by confucius say

They also beat Fla by 2. They are good but if we get blown out I'll be disappointed. I see 38-17.

And I'm not crowning Mississippi yet. They've beaten a 1-5 Tulane, a horrible Austin peay, and a meh Louisville. They didn't beat anybody with a pulse last year either (KY, Vandy, Usce, and us). Popcorn has 1 sec west win and it was at home by 7 points against a 3-7 state team that had 49 players. Tomorrow is a must win for Kernel Reb or the narrative i just laid out will run wild next week.

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I kinda see a 34-17 type game too.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

They also beat Fla by 2. They are good but if we get blown out I'll be disappointed. I see 38-17.

And I'm not crowning Mississippi yet. They've beaten a 1-5 Tulane, a horrible Austin peay, and a meh Louisville. They didn't beat anybody with a pulse last year either (KY, Vandy, Usce, and us). Popcorn has 1 sec west win and it was at home by 7 points against a 3-7 state team that had 49 players. Tomorrow is a must win for Kernel Reb or the narrative i just laid out will run wild next week.

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I was mainly talking about the Mississippi offense. It is good. Now Kernal Kiffin will make some dumb moves and their D is very suspect- but offensively they are good. Bama shutting them down was impressive. Saban is the best defensive coach in NCAA football- in addition to being the best recruiter obviously. They will give The Airbone too many problems. Just coached well and too much talent

The longer Leach is here the less and less the rush 3 drop will be effective. To Basedog's point it does take a couple of years to master the offense so the fact that we are improving and are able to play with anyone on our schedule is a positive at this point. At the same time we could also lose to anyone on our schedule as well because our margin for error is small.

So at this point I'm encouraged and taking this year in context and looking forward to the future.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Leach's offense largely removes the physicality advantage at the line of scrimmage we have against G5 teams which is largely why Memphis and la tech can play with us, but also removes the physicality disadvantage we have at the line of scrimmage against the 5 stars of the world, which is largely why we can beat LSU and Aggie and play with Uga. Pass blocking is easier than moving a stronger, faster DL out of the way.

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Games against people like La Tech and Memphis for us essentially come down to whether our defense can shut them down or not and whether we turn the ball over a ton or not.

Overall I agree with your assessment about physicality.

I think what a lot of our fanbase is missing is that for all of ******* tenure he played scared in big games. I think that's what I hated most about him, our team and I think our base kind of adopted that mindset after watching non competitive game after non competitive game against top talent. This is not Leach, Leach will walk into any stadium against any team and have the mentality that we can win if we execute. We might not have won anymore under mullen than what we did if he had the same mentality, but I promise you this the games against top teams would have been much more fun to watch that what we had to endure.

Under Leach I at least feel like we are going to try to win, honestly because I feel like Leach wants to win. Just being honest I feel like Mullen didn't care sometimes, he knew he was safe and sound until he found Florida. He could spin the loss anyway he wanted and the media would buy it because.... poor ole middatippy tate.

This team is trying to learn to have a killer instinct, they haven't yet, once they do. Its going to be good and it will give us the edge we need to complete against the top talent.

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Originally Posted by Maverick91

I think what a lot of our fanbase is missing is that for all of ******* tenure he played scared in big games. I think that's what I hated most about him, our team and I think our base kind of adopted that mindset after watching non competitive game after non competitive game against top talent. This is not Leach, Leach will walk into any stadium against any team and have the mentality that we can win if we execute. We might not have won anymore under mullen than what we did if he had the same mentality, but I promise you this the games against top teams would have been much more fun to watch that what we had to endure.

Under Leach I at least feel like we are going to try to win, honestly because I feel like Leach wants to win. Just being honest I feel like Mullen didn't care sometimes, he knew he was safe and sound until he found Florida. He could spin the loss anyway he wanted and the media would buy it because.... poor ole middatippy tate.

This team is trying to learn to have a killer instinct, they haven't yet, once they do. Its going to be good and it will give us the edge we need to complete against the top talent.

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I think Dan tried to win. But he was obviously a different coach against teams with better talent. Way more conservative. Plus I don't think his style really lended to us upsetting to many people in general. It's not a coincidence his best year with many of his biggest wins was when we were able to pass the ball well with Dak.

Personally in general I feel like it's hard for run first teams to come back on people because to come back a lot of times you have to throw the ball. And if your run first a lot of times that's not their element where they're comfortable.

I also got tired of people shutting us down by simply putting 9 in the box. Happened under Jackie, Croom, Dan, and Moorhead.

Players make plays. I think State executed and generally played with more confidence last week than in previous weeks. For instance, we ran a run play early in the game. THe hole was there. ATM had two LBs in the hole. Marks bounces it outside, out runs LBs to the corner, breaks two arm tackles and finishes the run falling forward. WHat should have been a 0 yard gain, was a 7 yard gain because of Marks ability. Bama will be faster at LB obviously. Will threw it well, zero picks. I don't recall any critical drops in the game by WRs. No turnovers.


With that said, I would interested in hearing the throughts of CoachNorm or Coach34 or any other coach on how difficult is it for a team that runs 4 DLs as the base defense, plays a lot of man coverage, to switch to a rush 3 and play zone coverage all game. I am sure all teams practice a prevent defense on occasion but how easy is it for an aggressive attacking defense to play prevent all game? How well will they execute defensively, the cover 3/6? It looked like last year, playing that 3-8 was easy for Arkansas as they run a 3-3-5.


Going forward, it will be interesting to watch, which defense we perform well against and which shut us down. LSU ran a 4-3 last year. UGA runs a 3-4. Memphis, Arkansas and Bama run 3 DL mostly. OM and aTm and LSU run more 4 DL. and which teams are better playing zone v man to man coverage.

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Originally Posted by basedog

You remind me of a good friend, we is all in with the Pirate, he has been saying "gotta give him time to get his recruits, season two isn't enough" So after we beat a top 15 way over rated Coach and team, his thoughts were 'We've turned the corner"! I laughed and told him I thought season two wasn't enough time to judge. His reply was well maybe you are correct but......

Bama is just on a different level, so I want be surprised unless we play them to the end, can't see it.

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What does losing to bama and believing in Leach have to do with anything? When is the last time msu (or anyone else) beat bama? If you can't see that the team is getting better, you're probably cheering for the wrong team.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

I was mainly talking about the Mississippi offense. It is good. Now Kernal Kiffin will make some dumb moves and their D is very suspect- but offensively they are good. Bama shutting them down was impressive. Saban is the best defensive coach in NCAA football- in addition to being the best recruiter obviously. They will give The Airbone too many problems. Just coached well and too much talent

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I mostly agree with that. 34-10, 38-17.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I think Dan tried to win. But he was obviously a different coach against teams with better talent. Way more conservative. Plus I don't think his style really lended to us upsetting to many people in general. It's not a coincidence his best year with many of his biggest wins was when we were able to pass the ball well with Dak.

Personally in general I feel like it's hard for run first teams to come back on people because to come back a lot of times you have to throw the ball. And if your run first a lot of times that's not their element where they're comfortable.

I also got tired of people shutting us down by simply putting 9 in the box. Happened under Jackie, Croom, Dan, and Moorhead.

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Facts! That is my main reason why I really want Leach to work here. Because if he does, we will always be in a position to be able to win. Or come back to win.

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Originally Posted by RezDog7

What does losing to bama and believing in Leach have to do with anything? When is the last time msu (or anyone else) beat bama? If you can't see that the team is getting better, you're probably cheering for the wrong team.

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Dude I will always cheer for MSU. I just don't see us beating Bama. As far as getting better, let's hope so.

I think this type of offense has the ability to give us better shots at winning games against the upper middle tier like UF, aTm, Auburn and LSU while they are down. I just don?t think it will impact us much against a team like Bama or UGA because the talent level is just too much to overcome. It also puts us a risk though against the bottom half of the conference to lose to someone we shouldn?t. Overall though I am going to be curious to see how it plays out over the next few years

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I think this type of offense has the ability to give us better shots at winning games against the upper middle tier like UF, aTm, Auburn and LSU while they are down. I just don?t think it will impact us much against a team like Bama or UGA because the talent level is just too much to overcome. It also puts us a risk though against the bottom half of the conference to lose to someone we shouldn?t. Overall though I am going to be curious to see how it plays out over the next few years

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I think it also gives us a chance to have a potential 11-1 type season if we have a team with a lot of talent like we appear to be able to put together every five years or so. Like 2010, 2014, 2018 for reference. I feel like we squandered the 2014 season (yes) and definitely will get no arguments about squndering 2018 from anyone here.

Biggest hinderance on overcoming this weakness is that basically the team resets every 2-3 years, starting the process over. If it were like the pros, where the team could be composed of veteran players, this would be less of an issue, but we will see a revolving door at WR, probably the most important factor in finding the holes in the zone with their routes. I can see it easily being similar to 1 good year, 2 mediocre, 1 great, 2 pretty bad, 1 good, and so on. Rollercoaster of love? No, rollercoaster of hate.

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Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

Biggest hinderance on overcoming this weakness is that basically the team resets every 2-3 years, starting the process over. If it were like the pros, where the team could be composed of veteran players, this would be less of an issue, but we will see a revolving door at WR, probably the most important factor in finding the holes in the zone with their routes. I can see it easily being similar to 1 good year, 2 mediocre, 1 great, 2 pretty bad, 1 good, and so on. Rollercoaster of love? No, rollercoaster of hate.

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That's more of a recruiting issue. We're a developmental program. We can't afford to start a bunch of sophomores at key positions and expect to have a really good year. We have to get to a point where we are replacing seniors with juniors every year.

Agreed, but what is one of the biggest complaints on CML? He?s not a guy big on recruiting. Why? Because he thinks his system neutralizes talent gaps and seemingly prides himself on that.

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Originally Posted by PGHBulldogBG

I think this type of offense has the ability to give us better shots at winning games against the upper middle tier like UF, aTm, Auburn and LSU while they are down. I just don?t think it will impact us much against a team like Bama or UGA because the talent level is just too much to overcome. It also puts us a risk though against the bottom half of the conference to lose to someone we shouldn?t. Overall though I am going to be curious to see how it plays out over the next few years

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Did you miss our game vs UGA last year?

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Originally Posted by Dak Holliday

Biggest hinderance on overcoming this weakness is that basically the team resets every 2-3 years, starting the process over. If it were like the pros, where the team could be composed of veteran players, this would be less of an issue, but we will see a revolving door at WR, probably the most important factor in finding the holes in the zone with their routes. I can see it easily being similar to 1 good year, 2 mediocre, 1 great, 2 pretty bad, 1 good, and so on. Rollercoaster of love? No, rollercoaster of hate.

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It doesn’t start over though. In year 1, no one knows what they’re doing. In year 3, most players know what they’re doing and can help teach others. The process refines over time. It’s why Iowa and Wisconsin are so consistent

Maybe. I hope you?re right, but I?m still leaning more that-
Eh bad take. Not the same thing in the SEC 😉😂

If Bama is our test like you suggest, it will have next to nothing to do with their drop 8, but everything to do with the three they send. If our OL gets the job done, we will move the ball. If they are forcing our OL into the lap of Will, it may be a long day, longer than expected.

I personally really don?t care about the Bama game. They are far superior to our team in all three phases of the game. I would rather go ahead and forfeit and start prepping for our next two games because nothing will come out of the Bama game other than injuries. But, that isn?t an option, so we might as well give Bama all they can handle.

We need to win the other games, Auburn, Kentucky, Arkansas, Ole Miss, etc. If I had to call one as a test, it would be Arkansas. We really do not match up well against them.

Well obviously QB pressure really effects the passing game. But Saban is a master at coverages. Saban prepares that team to play in all types of zone coverages. Alabama is not going to get confused and bust coverages often. If State keeps that Bama game close, against that secondary, I'll be super impressed with the air raid. I'll be there. So I hope it happens.

Anyways, I agree that Alabama is so talented. Really, it's the UK, Ark and OM games that will define this season.