OM looks pretty good tonight

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

What personnel did we have that was worth a shit last year? Kylin quit on us, all we had was some freshman receivers and 2 freshman backs. We didn't hardly have shit. Why not go ahead and get your system in place?

The only and I mean ONLY problem I have with us is I wish we could have kept Schrader with these receivers we have now. But I totally agree with Leach and what he has done. He wants to win and is gonna win his way. Why would we not. I mean we already have the best receiver core we have had and maybe EVER had. He has his QBs, but they are just young. They need time.

All these people saying we cant win unless we play smash mouth football or have a mobile QB here at State, when they hell has either of those things worked for us? When have we ever won anything worth a shit running the football.

How did Ole Miss beat Bama when they did? They threw the football. When they were throwing it all over the yard, people on here were complaining cause Mullen wouldn't/couldn't throw it and was running it. Now that we are throwing every down, people wanna complain about that.

Look, we arent gonna win shit and have never won shit lining up and trying to run smash mouth football against Bama or whoever. Were gonna to think outside the box. Now i agree, I wish our QB would run the ball like Minshew did when Leach had him. That would open up a whole new world. I dont know if that is Leach or if that is Rogers being scared.

I do know Rogers had people open down the field damn near every play and either wouldnt pull the trigger and checked down, or got sacked. Alot of his problems is him. When he gets rid of the ball, shit clicks. I think he holds the ball way too long sometimes and misses some opportunity's.

Some of yall need to buckle up. Leach is gonna do it his way no matter what. Yall wanted a coach to actually want to be here and not be looking to get out after every off season and we have it. Let the man do it his way.

Oh and to something else I read earlier today. Cant remember where I saw it on here, but the fella said something to the effect that Leach was gonna have to get over having a few "bad apples" and suck it up. I say bullshit to that. If they wanna be preMadonnas and act like little shits, GTFO. Take your ass to Ole Miss and play. Leach wants guys that will work and bust their ass for him and for the University. Why would we not want that? That may have been the stupidest shit I have ever read on here.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets this. Of course you're about to get talked down to by the but....but....he should adapt to his personnel people.


Anyway MSU fans want to do the opposite of whatever we are doing at that time. And then when we make a chance they expect it to work immediately when we try to go in the complete opposite direction with players that were recruited to do the complete opposite of whatever it is the new coach wants to do.

I think we're actually pretty close given the fact that our offense has a ton of sophomores at key skill spots with some transfers to patch things up to try to make us competitive. I would definitely be a lot more worried had the fourth quarter looked like the second and third.

Looks like that vaulted OM defense y'all were foaming at the mouth is well... just.... average

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

I honestly dont think Satterfield gives one shit about being there anymore. I remember him and the AD having a problem and him saying he would go pretty much anywhere else.

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Oh. Didn't realize that. Explains a lot.

If I was Louisville's AD I would have just fired him after comments like that. I know McDonnell has had problems with their AD too.

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

What personnel did we have that was worth a shit last year? Kylin quit on us, all we had was some freshman receivers and 2 freshman backs. We didn't hardly have shit. Why not go ahead and get your system in place?

The only and I mean ONLY problem I have with us is I wish we could have kept Schrader with these receivers we have now. But I totally agree with Leach and what he has done. He wants to win and is gonna win his way. Why would we not. I mean we already have the best receiver core we have had and maybe EVER had. He has his QBs, but they are just young. They need time.

All these people saying we cant win unless we play smash mouth football or have a mobile QB here at State, when they hell has either of those things worked for us? When have we ever won anything worth a shit running the football.

How did Ole Miss beat Bama when they did? They threw the football. When they were throwing it all over the yard, people on here were complaining cause Mullen wouldn't/couldn't throw it and was running it. Now that we are throwing every down, people wanna complain about that.

Look, we arent gonna win shit and have never won shit lining up and trying to run smash mouth football against Bama or whoever. Were gonna to think outside the box. Now i agree, I wish our QB would run the ball like Minshew did when Leach had him. That would open up a whole new world. I dont know if that is Leach or if that is Rogers being scared.

I do know Rogers had people open down the field damn near every play and either wouldnt pull the trigger and checked down, or got sacked. Alot of his problems is him. When he gets rid of the ball, shit clicks. I think he holds the ball way too long sometimes and misses some opportunity's.

Some of yall need to buckle up. Leach is gonna do it his way no matter what. Yall wanted a coach to actually want to be here and not be looking to get out after every off season and we have it. Let the man do it his way.

Oh and to something else I read earlier today. Cant remember where I saw it on here, but the fella said something to the effect that Leach was gonna have to get over having a few "bad apples" and suck it up. I say bullshit to that. If they wanna be preMadonnas and act like little shits, GTFO. Take your ass to Ole Miss and play. Leach wants guys that will work and bust their ass for him and for the University. Why would we not want that? That may have been the stupidest shit I have ever read on here.

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Good post !

Did Corral take this much abuse last year? He won't last the season taking that many hits.

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Originally Posted by Eric Nies Grind Time

Did Corral take this much abuse last year? He won't last the season taking that many hits.

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Just dumb running the ball with him with a 20 point lead in the 4th quarter.

Let?s see how they do against Austin Peay before we go crowning them NC.

Let?s Go Peay!
Let?s Go Peay!

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Originally Posted by TNDawg35

What personnel did we have that was worth a shit last year? Kylin quit on us, all we had was some freshman receivers and 2 freshman backs. We didn't hardly have shit. Why not go ahead and get your system in place?

The only and I mean ONLY problem I have with us is I wish we could have kept Schrader with these receivers we have now. But I totally agree with Leach and what he has done. He wants to win and is gonna win his way. Why would we not. I mean we already have the best receiver core we have had and maybe EVER had. He has his QBs, but they are just young. They need time.

All these people saying we cant win unless we play smash mouth football or have a mobile QB here at State, when they hell has either of those things worked for us? When have we ever won anything worth a shit running the football.

How did Ole Miss beat Bama when they did? They threw the football. When they were throwing it all over the yard, people on here were complaining cause Mullen wouldn't/couldn't throw it and was running it. Now that we are throwing every down, people wanna complain about that.

Look, we arent gonna win shit and have never won shit lining up and trying to run smash mouth football against Bama or whoever. Were gonna to think outside the box. Now i agree, I wish our QB would run the ball like Minshew did when Leach had him. That would open up a whole new world. I dont know if that is Leach or if that is Rogers being scared.

I do know Rogers had people open down the field damn near every play and either wouldnt pull the trigger and checked down, or got sacked. Alot of his problems is him. When he gets rid of the ball, shit clicks. I think he holds the ball way too long sometimes and misses some opportunity's.

Some of yall need to buckle up. Leach is gonna do it his way no matter what. Yall wanted a coach to actually want to be here and not be looking to get out after every off season and we have it. Let the man do it his way.

Oh and to something else I read earlier today. Cant remember where I saw it on here, but the fella said something to the effect that Leach was gonna have to get over having a few "bad apples" and suck it up. I say bullshit to that. If they wanna be preMadonnas and act like little shits, GTFO. Take your ass to Ole Miss and play. Leach wants guys that will work and bust their ass for him and for the University. Why would we not want that? That may have been the stupidest shit I have ever read on here.

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Ok, fair points.

Just to be clear, though, I haven't been one of the ones hankering for a RTGDFB offense, or saying this "doesn't fit our culture", or whatever else. I agree, the power-run option will only get you so far. And I obviously want Leach's offense to work; I just want him to make it more flexible. Now I don't want him to run the "Fitzgerald" offense, but a designed QB run every now and then would at least put the threat out there. And how about we move the pocket around, some boot-legs, run-pass options, etc. (instead of just having your QB stand back there like a statue)? All of that would make his offense more varied, and help the (struggling) OL out, too.

As others have also pointed out, this offense absolutely must have down field pressure. Granted, some of that is on the QB for not pushing it, but as the coach, Leach has to take the training wheels off and really stress this part; especially (as you note), we've got WR's running open deep. Got to get them the ball.

And you mentioned "look how OM beat Bama". I agree, you have to throw the ball in this day and age to beat good teams, and historically we haven't done that. It's worth pointing out, however, that the pass/run ratio for OM against Bama in 2014 was 31/32, and in 2015 was 33/32....

Finally, I get that Leach is an iconoclast with an ego, and he wants to do things "his way". I hope "his way" ends up working, but I think for it to really be successful, he's going to have to adapt a little more than he probably wants to or is used to.

About the you have to pass to beat bama...

2014 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 31 passes
2015 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 33 passes

And also, we aren't beating Bama with our talent level. You gotta beat bama for some players to beat them on the field

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Originally Posted by RocketDawg

So far. Don't know how good Louisville is.

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Expected. OM is going to beat the breaks out of terrible teams. Louisville is very bad.

I see the AD talking points have made it through OOB to the fan base......

We had Costello and Hill vs LSU last year and looked like a well oiled machine....... We had Costello and Hill vs Arkansas and UK, they switched to a drop 8 and we sucked. 2 points v UK. 2! However, yep.....after that people quit.

"Leach has to get his players." Yep, every coach does. However, you could bring back Minshew to this offense this week and it would look the same. Crossing pattern, swing pass, draw, Crossing pattern....repeat. Watch WSU film. We are running the same plays and making the same passes Minshew did.

"We aint' won nothing running the ball." Nobody is asking for the wing T or triple option. Mullen and Sherrill are the best coaches we had here and we won. We won a lot. Both coaches had a balanced attack and played defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that style of play. OOB wants to keep repeating the hot take......"Kirby Smart is too conservation. Jimbo is too conservative." We shall see.

If State fans want to defend Leach's offense, I understand. He will be here 4 years. However, I see a lot of shots aimed at Rogers and the OL. Those players are running the offense (underneath passes) and technique (wide splits) that they are told to run. The OL being confused on a simple twist stunt....that's on the OL coach. Very few passes of more than 5 yards......thats scheme. By the way, that game was close because of sloppy sloppy sloppy execution all over the field, not just offense. That's coaching.

Hail State.

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Ok, fair points.

Just to be clear, though, I haven't been one of the ones hankering for a RTGDFB offense, or saying this "doesn't fit our culture", or whatever else. I agree, the power-run option will only get you so far. And I obviously want Leach's offense to work; I just want him to make it more flexible. Now I don't want him to run the "Fitzgerald" offense, but a designed QB run every now and then would at least put the threat out there. And how about we move the pocket around, some boot-legs, run-pass options, etc. (instead of just having your QB stand back there like a statue)? All of that would make his offense more varied, and help the (struggling) OL out, too.

As others have also pointed out, this offense absolutely must have down field pressure. Granted, some of that is on the QB for not pushing it, but as the coach, Leach has to take the training wheels off and really stress this part; especially (as you note), we've got WR's running open deep. Got to get them the ball.

And you mentioned "look how OM beat Bama". I agree, you have to throw the ball in this day and age to beat good teams, and historically we haven't done that. It's worth pointing out, however, that the pass/run ratio for OM against Bama in 2014 was 31/32, and in 2015 was 33/32....

Finally, I get that Leach is an iconoclast with an ego, and he wants to do things "his way". I hope "his way" ends up working, but I think for it to really be successful, he's going to have to adapt a little more than he probably wants to or is used to.

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^^^ quality post

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I see the AD talking points have made it through OOB to the fan base......

We had Costello and Hill vs LSU last year and looked like a well oiled machine....... We had Costello and Hill vs Arkansas and UK, they switched to a drop 8 and we sucked. 2 points v UK. 2! However, yep.....after that people quit.

"Leach has to get his players." Yep, every coach does. However, you could bring back Minshew to this offense this week and it would look the same. Crossing pattern, swing pass, draw, Crossing pattern....repeat. Watch WSU film. We are running the same plays and making the same passes Minshew did.

"We aint' won nothing running the ball." Nobody is asking for the wing T or triple option. Mullen and Sherrill are the best coaches we had here and we won. We won a lot. Both coaches had a balanced attack and played defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that style of play. OOB wants to keep repeating the hot take......"Kirby Smart is too conservation. Jimbo is too conservative." We shall see.

If State fans want to defend Leach's offense, I understand. He will be here 4 years. However, I see a lot of shots aimed at Rogers and the OL. Those players are running the offense (underneath passes) and technique (wide splits) that they are told to run. The OL being confused on a simple twist stunt....that's on the OL coach. Very few passes of more than 5 yards......thats scheme. By the way, that game was close because of sloppy sloppy sloppy execution all over the field, not just offense. That's coaching.

Hail State.

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^^^ another quality post

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Ok, fair points.

Just to be clear, though, I haven't been one of the ones hankering for a RTGDFB offense, or saying this "doesn't fit our culture", or whatever else. I agree, the power-run option will only get you so far. And I obviously want Leach's offense to work; I just want him to make it more flexible. Now I don't want him to run the "Fitzgerald" offense, but a designed QB run every now and then would at least put the threat out there. And how about we move the pocket around, some boot-legs, run-pass options, etc. (instead of just having your QB stand back there like a statue)? All of that would make his offense more varied, and help the (struggling) OL out, too.

As others have also pointed out, this offense absolutely must have down field pressure. Granted, some of that is on the QB for not pushing it, but as the coach, Leach has to take the training wheels off and really stress this part; especially (as you note), we've got WR's running open deep. Got to get them the ball.

And you mentioned "look how OM beat Bama". I agree, you have to throw the ball in this day and age to beat good teams, and historically we haven't done that. It's worth pointing out, however, that the pass/run ratio for OM against Bama in 2014 was 31/32, and in 2015 was 33/32....

Finally, I get that Leach is an iconoclast with an ego, and he wants to do things "his way". I hope "his way" ends up working, but I think for it to really be successful, he's going to have to adapt a little more than he probably wants to or is used to.

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Top shelf post.

I believe if Leach would just adapt to a dual threat QB w/ scripted QB run plays sprinkled in for four quarters this offense would be pretty dangerous. When the other team has to account for a QB that can get 15-20 yards with his legs at the drop of a hat we would see some more open passing lanes and a lot less drop 8.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I see the AD talking points have made it through OOB to the fan base......

We had Costello and Hill vs LSU last year and looked like a well oiled machine....... We had Costello and Hill vs Arkansas and UK, they switched to a drop 8 and we sucked. 2 points v UK. 2! However, yep.....after that people quit.

"Leach has to get his players." Yep, every coach does. However, you could bring back Minshew to this offense this week and it would look the same. Crossing pattern, swing pass, draw, Crossing pattern....repeat. Watch WSU film. We are running the same plays and making the same passes Minshew did.

"We aint' won nothing running the ball." Nobody is asking for the wing T or triple option. Mullen and Sherrill are the best coaches we had here and we won. We won a lot. Both coaches had a balanced attack and played defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that style of play. OOB wants to keep repeating the hot take......"Kirby Smart is too conservation. Jimbo is too conservative." We shall see.

If State fans want to defend Leach's offense, I understand. He will be here 4 years. However, I see a lot of shots aimed at Rogers and the OL. Those players are running the offense (underneath passes) and technique (wide splits) that they are told to run. The OL being confused on a simple twist stunt....that's on the OL coach. Very few passes of more than 5 yards......thats scheme. By the way, that game was close because of sloppy sloppy sloppy execution all over the field, not just offense. That's coaching.

Hail State.

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State fans don't really need to defend Leach's offense. Leach's offense historical results pretty much defends itself. As I put in another post, his last WSU offense in 2019 was 7th in the nation in total offense and 11th in points per game. Now you can certainly say that offenses are like stocks in that past performance is no guarantee of future performance but all of you saying dogmatically it won't work are going directly against Leach's historical track record. And maybe it won't ever work well against the upper elite SEC defenses but there aren't that many of those right now and no offense we've ever run, including the great Dan Mullen offense, ever worked against those defenses either. Biggest issue currently is needing to get more SEC quality OL on campus or do a much better job of developing the ones we have. If we don't do that it won't matter much what offense we run. Not sure what's going on with a guy like Cross right now who is supposed to be elite but isn't showing it.

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Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen

I see the AD talking points have made it through OOB to the fan base......

We had Costello and Hill vs LSU last year and looked like a well oiled machine....... We had Costello and Hill vs Arkansas and UK, they switched to a drop 8 and we sucked. 2 points v UK. 2! However, yep.....after that people quit.

"Leach has to get his players." Yep, every coach does. However, you could bring back Minshew to this offense this week and it would look the same. Crossing pattern, swing pass, draw, Crossing pattern....repeat. Watch WSU film. We are running the same plays and making the same passes Minshew did.

"We aint' won nothing running the ball." Nobody is asking for the wing T or triple option. Mullen and Sherrill are the best coaches we had here and we won. We won a lot. Both coaches had a balanced attack and played defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that style of play. OOB wants to keep repeating the hot take......"Kirby Smart is too conservation. Jimbo is too conservative." We shall see.

If State fans want to defend Leach's offense, I understand. He will be here 4 years. However, I see a lot of shots aimed at Rogers and the OL. Those players are running the offense (underneath passes) and technique (wide splits) that they are told to run. The OL being confused on a simple twist stunt....that's on the OL coach. Very few passes of more than 5 yards......thats scheme. By the way, that game was close because of sloppy sloppy sloppy execution all over the field, not just offense. That's coaching.

Hail State.

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Great post, nailed it 13. What many of us have been harping on as soon as it became obvious. This will continue for 2 more years.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

State fans don't really need to defend Leach's offense. Leach's offense historical results pretty much defends itself. As I put in another post, his last WSU offense in 2019 was 7th in the nation in total offense and 11th in points per game. Now you can certainly say that offenses are like stocks in that past performance is no guarantee of future performance but all of you saying dogmatically it won't work are going directly against Leach's historical track record. And maybe it won't ever work well against the upper elite SEC defenses but there aren't that many of those right now and no offense we've ever run, including the great Dan Mullen offense, ever worked against those defenses either. Biggest issue currently is needing to get more SEC quality OL on campus or do a much better job of developing the ones we have. If we don't do that it won't matter much what offense we run. Not sure what's going on with a guy like Cross right now who is supposed to be elite but isn't showing it.

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Leach's O is 25 years old, it worked in the 90s. There is a reason people adapt and mix these ideas - defenses figure it out. Reason why we don't run the wishbone anymore but good coaches adapt and run a spread option and also pass out of it. We will win about as much as Army running option only football but Army doesn't play in the SEC.

Leach has never proven he can run only air raid 25 year old plays in the SEC modern era. The experiment continues. Every other HC that has commented on MSU and Leach's O has said the same thing many on here are saying.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I wish we played a fun offense like this

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Of course you do... you've been a big fan of theirs for a long time. Dare I say... fan? They get much more positive posts than you ever give our State teams.

Well Paauuullll just poured cold water on the Bears win. Said Louisville was a terrible team.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

Of course you do... you've been a big fan of theirs for a long time. Dare I say... fan? They get much more positive posts than you ever give our State teams.

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I've been a fan of kiffin's. I wanted him before he went to OM. I really like his offense