Some one explaine to me why Neb fired a 9 win coach?

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Hilarious?

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Hilarious because our concerns are the exact opposite. Our luck we'll end up sucking on both sides of the ball.

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Originally Posted by engie

I just think it's funny how much grief I've caught and continue to catch for being pissed when we had gone 5-11 over 16 games, in which the wins were 4-8 Arky, Alcorn St, Troy, and getting lucky to squeak by Bowling Green and Kentucky by 1 and 6 points respectively. While losing by 31 to Bama, 25 to aTm, 20 to LSU, 17 to OM, 14 to Northwestern, 18 to Oklahoma St, 4 to Auburn in a botched game, 33 to LSU, 18 to SCe at the point when we started to turn the corner at aTm and vs Bama even while QBs were dropping like flies.

But now -- it's somehow widely acceptable here to be pissed the heck off and saying the same things I was saying off a really bad 5-11 stretch -- off a 20-7 stretch that saw us at #1 for 5 weeks.

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You were wrong in 2013, and Coach34 is wrong now. Hell, he ain't never been right. That's the long and short of it. At least you had some sort of evidence in 2013, when we were sitting at 4-6. These morons now are bitching after we went 10-2 and 8-4.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We lose draft picks at both CB's- and after your boy went down you saw how much worse the defense got. And I wont rehash the DL problems

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We lose two CB's, but surely our safeties will be much better. Brandon Bryant and Peters as RS and true sophomores hopefully will have a good jump. I'm also hoping that bringing in a new safeties coach will help. Coman shouldn't be as bad as he is if you believe his stats on the iron dawg board or whatever they call it now. I know some athletes are just not football players, but we've had Cox and Coman back to back. Maybe there was something lacking in coaching there and a new coach can coach Coman up to at least be a good backup (of course we also had Market and Hughes, two players that did an excellent and good job of maximizing their athletic ability, but trying to be optimistic). We will need somebody new (like Graham maybe) to step up at CB, but if we can get two decent corners and two pretty good safeties, I feel like that'd be better than two good corners and two liabilities at safety. There may be some games where you really need that lock down corner for a specific wide receiver, but most games I'd rather just not have a big liability. Of course there is the potential that we will have a bigger liability at one of the corners than we had at either safety, but again, trying to be optimistic.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

You were wrong in 2013, and Coach34 is wrong now. Hell, he ain't never been right. That's the long and short of it. At least you had some sort of evidence in 2013, when we were sitting at 4-6. These morons now are bitching after we went 10-2 and 8-4.

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lol....Goat is something else

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

We lose two CB's, but surely our safeties will be much better. Brandon Bryant and Peters as RS and true sophomores hopefully will have a good jump. I'm also hoping that bringing in a new safeties coach will help. Coman shouldn't be as bad as he is if you believe his stats on the iron dawg board or whatever they call it now. I know some athletes are just not football players, but we've had Cox and Coman back to back. Maybe there was something lacking in coaching there and a new coach can coach Coman up to at least be a good backup (of course we also had Market and Hughes, two players that did an excellent and good job of maximizing their athletic ability, but trying to be optimistic). We will need somebody new (like Graham maybe) to step up at CB, but if we can get two decent corners and two pretty good safeties, I feel like that'd be better than two good corners and two liabilities at safety. There may be some games where you really need that lock down corner for a specific wide receiver, but most games I'd rather just not have a big liability. Of course there is the potential that we will have a bigger liability at one of the corners than we had at either safety, but again, trying to be optimistic.

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Smitherman is the best corner on the team IMO. Will we play him as a rsFR ahead of a senior that was terrible this year?

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Originally Posted by engie

And I'd say we will be a very young team in 2016. At least -- that's where the talent is. It's in the class of 2015 and the handful of key remaining rsSRs from the class of 2012.

The vast majority of the "veterans" are from bust classes and are less talented than the underclassmen. The only places where we have good, veteran depth for next year is at WR and LB.

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We aren't young next year- our two deep is full of upperclassmen. Our Secondary will be Coman, Cleveland, Jiles, etc...Our starting WR's will all be Sr's...Shumpert and Holloway will be Sr's- our OL will start at least 3 Sr- with possibly Rankin in there as a 4th ur Jr..LB's will be Sr's and Jr's...DL will start 3 Sr's

Veteran team. That's what Mullen has built and that was his plan. You can't say "all
the talent is young"- because that means Mullen's redshirting and development philosophy has failed

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Originally Posted by engie

And I'd say we will be a very young team in 2016. At least -- that's where the talent is. It's in the class of 2015 and the handful of key remaining rsSRs from the class of 2012.

The vast majority of the "veterans" are from bust classes and are less talented than the underclassmen. The only places where we have good, veteran depth for next year is at WR and LB.

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After a quick google search I couldn't find it, but someone posted a while back that State had played the 2nd most freshmen this year, behind only Georgia. If true, that would seem to bode well for next year and not taking too big of a step backward. Some pretty talented red-shirts should contribute too.

No way to know for sure, but my guess is that the relative strength of the SECW will be about the same next year.

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Originally Posted by Taog Redloh

You were wrong in 2013, and Coach34 is wrong now. Hell, he ain't never been right. That's the long and short of it. At least you had some sort of evidence in 2013, when we were sitting at 4-6. These morons now are bitching after we went 10-2 and 8-4.

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I don't think I was "right" in 2013. The extreme nature of the turnaround that followed pretty much proved that. I just think it's funny how much further down the rabbit hole we were then when I was losing my mind in comparison to where we sit right now when those that argued against me then are losing their minds now. If we get blown out in the bowl game and then start 4-6 next year and are not competitive in the losses while consistently playing average juniors and seniors over great freshmen and sophomores the situation will then be similar. As bad as it is to say -- injuries saved that 2013 season for us because it forced us to play the more talented young guys.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

You can't say "all
the talent is young"- because that means Mullen's redshirting and development philosophy has failed

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Sure I can. Redshirting and development hasn't failed -- recruiting and retaining has failed. 2/3 of the class of 2013 which would be 4th year players next year are gone. Single digit real contributors from that class. As for your projected 2-deep -- you just skewed it to fit your narrative.

Our most talented corner will be a rs fr.
Our most talented rb will be a rs fr.
Our 2nd best dt will be a rs fr.
Our 3 best S will be sophs.
Our best TE will be a tr SO.
Arguably our 2 best OL will be rs SOs.
Our QB will be a rs SO.

You are just playing the "veteran team" line of bs so you can continue the narrative if we struggle next year. But now that you've done a 180 on Mullen, I suspect that you'll continue to drive the narrative that direction regardless.

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Originally Posted by engie

Sure I can. Redshirting and development hasn't failed -- recruiting and retaining has failed. 2/3 of the class of 2013 which would be 4th year players next year are gone. Single digit real contributors from that class. As for your projected 2-deep -- you just skewed it to fit your narrative.

Our most talented corner will be a rs fr.
Our most talented rb will be a rs fr.
Our 2nd best dt will be a rs fr.
Our 3 best S will be sophs.
Our best TE will be a tr SO.
Arguably our 2 best OL will be rs SOs.
Our QB will be a rs SO.

You are just playing the "veteran team" line of bs so you can continue the narrative if we struggle next year. But now that you've done a 180 on Mullen, I suspect that you'll continue to drive the narrative that direction regardless.

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I think its fair to say that you are making some assumptions as well. We haven't seen Smitherman, Gibson, and Adams play - We want them to be good, but we haven't seen them play against live competition.

Who is the TE you are referencing? I genuinely don't know.

As for the OL - Jenkins has shown nothing but getting smoked in the egg bowl. He has shown nothing. Calhoun does have promise.

I think the narrative that all of our most talented players are freshman or RS freshman that haven't seen the field is just an argument that people use because no one wants to think that the guys behind them aren't better than what we are seeing on the field.

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Originally Posted by engie

Sure I can. Redshirting and development hasn't failed -- recruiting and retaining has failed. 2/3 of the class of 2013 which would be 4th year players next year are gone. Single digit real contributors from that class. As for your projected 2-deep -- you just skewed it to fit your narrative.

Our most talented corner will be a rs fr.
Our most talented rb will be a rs fr.
Our 2nd best dt will be a rs fr.
Our 3 best S will be sophs.
Our best TE will be a tr SO.
Arguably our 2 best OL will be rs SOs.
Our QB will be a rs SO.

You are just playing the "veteran team" line of bs so you can continue the narrative if we struggle next year. But now that you've done a 180 on Mullen, I suspect that you'll continue to drive the narrative that direction regardless.

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There is no BS- i mentioned the players that will be on the football field playing for us next year. The guys playing for us will not be young. That's just fact.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I think its fair to say that you are making some assumptions as well. We haven't seen Smitherman, Gibson, and Adams play - We want them to be good, but we haven't seen them play against live competition.

Who is the TE you are referencing? I genuinely don't know.

As for the OL - Jenkins has shown nothing but getting smoked in the egg bowl. He has shown nothing. Calhoun does have promise.

I think the narrative that all of our most talented players are freshman or RS freshman that haven't seen the field is just an argument that people use because no one wants to think that the guys behind them aren't better than what we are seeing on the field.

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exactly

To say Smitherman is our best CB at this point is ludicrous. Too many assumptions- especially at DT. Our starting DT's are gonna be James and Adams- and it won't be the younger Adams.

It's just like last year at this time- people kept saying Coman wouldn't start and that our awesome signee was going to start from Day 1. All the guys saying that haven't paid attention to the way we do things at State under Mullen. Guys that pay their dues and work hard are going to play over younger guys until the younger guy proves to be much better. That's the way it is. We are not about to sit a bunch of Sr's to start freshman

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Originally Posted by Coach34

It's just like last year at this time- people kept saying Coman wouldn't start and that our awesome signee was going to start from Day 1. All the guys saying that haven't paid attention to the way we do things at State under Mullen. Guys that pay their dues and work hard are going to play over younger guys until the younger guy proves to be much better. That's the way it is. We are not about to sit a bunch of Sr's to start freshman

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I see what you are saying but you have to admit and commented during the season as well that Peters and McLaurin were not ready to start even after the first 1/3 of the season. The safety position just isn't easy to come in and start especially for players from small MS schools. Them not being ready negates the age factor with that position group. Even at the end of the year McLaurin wasn't ready to start. Peters best play was from the Husky position not true safety either. Although he would have been serviceable I believe if he had to start at the end of the year. Which is what we were telling people even during the season. Peters might be close at the end but McLaurin would not be ready this year for full time.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

exactly

To say Smitherman is our best CB at this point is ludicrous. Too many assumptions- especially at DT. Our starting DT's are gonna be James and Adams- and it won't be the younger Adams.

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Because we've got history of starting the most talented guys we have as true freshmen**

Smitherman is our best CB right now -- at this moment -- that is going to be here next year. For such an extreme talent evaluator as yourself -- it's amazing to me that you don't already know that. Even though the initial post you responded to did NOT include me calling him our "best" -- but "most talented".

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We aren't young next year- our two deep is full of upperclassmen. Our Secondary will be Coman, Cleveland, Jiles, etc...Our starting WR's will all be Sr's...Shumpert and Holloway will be Sr's- our OL will start at least 3 Sr- with possibly Rankin in there as a 4th ur Jr..LB's will be Sr's and Jr's...DL will start 3 Sr's

Veteran team. That's what Mullen has built and that was his plan. You can't say "all
the talent is young"- because that means Mullen's redshirting and development philosophy has failed

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As long as Mullen is coach I don't think we will ever technically be young. We might lose some SR's but our red shirting and giving play time to second team will keep us from being young.

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Originally Posted by engie

Because we've got history of starting the most talented guys we have as true freshmen**

Smitherman is our best CB right now -- at this moment -- that is going to be here next year. For such an extreme talent evaluator as yourself -- it's amazing to me that you don't already know that.

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i haven't been to practice this year- so I can't evaluate what I haven't seen.

He he may very well be- but we don't "know" he is until we see him play. And it won't be on the 1st snap on Defense in 2016 unless Jiles and Cleveland are hurt or suspended

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Originally Posted by Jack Lambert

As long as Mullen is coach I don't think we will ever technically be young. We might lose some SR's but our red shirting and giving play time to second team will keep us from being young.

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well that's the theory behind it. Redshirt most of your classes to ensure you won't ever have to start a bunch of Freshman

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

I think its fair to say that you are making some assumptions as well. We haven't seen Smitherman, Gibson, and Adams play - We want them to be good, but we haven't seen them play against live competition.

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Talent is able to be evaluated without seeing guys play under the lights. Would you argue that baseball talent can't be assessed in practice? Talent level and game productivity are two entirely different things that generally converge with experience.

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Who is the TE you are referencing? I genuinely don't know.

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Justin Johnson. Who was our best option for the majority of this year -- but didn't see the field so much because -- gasp, freshmenz.

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As for the OL - Jenkins has shown nothing but getting smoked in the egg bowl. He has shown nothing. Calhoun does have promise.

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A rsFR got smoked by a first rounder? The heck you say?

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I think the narrative that all of our most talented players are freshman or RS freshman that haven't seen the field is just an argument that people use because no one wants to think that the guys behind them aren't better than what we are seeing on the field.

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So -- you are saying is that the 2012 team was more talented than the 2014 team I guess? Since the guys on the bench are never more talented than the guys Mullen trots out there as seniors.

He's saying that sometimes R-Sr's are better at that particular than more talented younger players. There is lots of things experience helps with on a football field- it's more than just who has the most overall talent.