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He wanted to play KT but KT was nowhere near ready. Ask anybody who watched practice. Hell nick Gibson two weeks ago, when asked about KT improving, said last fall KT was throwing the ball all over the place and nobody knew where it was going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
That's why we saw KT in an important point in the A&M game......and then we saw what happened. It was at that moment that I knew he wasn't ready. And I wanted to go to KT very bad all throughout the LSU game and all week leading up to the A&M game. I even made the statement that if KT plays a majority of the game then we probably win. Gladly ate crow on that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
He wouldnt have been a project player for Mullen in 2018. He would have probably gotten all american votes, if not made one of the teams outright. It was just a bigger hill to climb than anyone realized.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
English to Spanish
Yep, I totally agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
People need to realize Dan Mullen is arguably the best QB coach in the country.... especially for a certain type of QB. The type we have on campus now. DM's track record with QBs cannot be questioned.
Guess what guys. That means we lost a very special coach when it comes to coaching QBs like Fitz and KT. We were not going to replace that. You can't. What he does best is what we are all complaining about
There was going to be a drop off at QB. And there were going to be issues having a good fit for the QBs on our roster. ... remember these are specialized types of QBs we have.
There just wasn't a way to avoid it some disruption. What was best for the program was making the best hire for the long term.
If that means getting a very highly regarded young assistant that ran an offensive that needs something different....and giving him time to do it.....so be it.
Our record 4 years from now is more important to me than last year's
Mullen's offense was not a vertical game. Fitz would have never had to have thrown it deep. There is a real reason why we did not get alot of great WRs under Mullen. He didn't need them for his game.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
So take what Mullen did and add a vertical game and that's Moorhead. Spread them DEEP and WIDE and allow the QB the reads to run, hand off or pass.
Nope. Nobody is trashing him. Stating his stats is not trashing him. Stating facts like it's SFA is just truth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
What everybody is saying is obvious.
- Moorhead was hired for his offense and success... he was NOT hired to be a Mullen clone.
- Moorhead's offense runs circles around Mullen's. Why? Because Mullen doesn't play deep ball or longer passes. He lives off bubble screens and 5- 15 yard passes with the QB allowed to pull the ball and run. Moorhead's doesn't just spread them horizontally, but vertically too.
He has the COY plaques on his wall and knows what it takes to make his system run. Let him do his job. OR maybe we can ALL just ban together and bitch about him like you and others did Mullen until he is ready to move on.
Again.. no. Nobody is trashing them.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
- Either you want Moorhead to do his job
OR
- You want him to cater to the players MULLEN recruited for HIS offense.
You are placing him in a non-winnable situation.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach007
I've come to realize very quickly that everything is Joe's fault no matter what.
And it's most interesting to me that some of his biggest critics that have railed him for "not adjusting to his players" are upset that he's trying to get a QB in that fits his system.
I think this was a particularly challenging adjustment. You have 2 semi-accurate QBs and a receiver corps that has the dropsies. Other than that and maybe LT, you had some very solid offensive pieces. You have to tip your hat to Dan and Hev for whatever their secret sauce is, but not many programs do things quite like they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
There's certainly valid complaints that not making the right adjustments cost us a couple of games. I won't argue that.
BUT in the past he's been touted as being great at that.
Randy Edsall, his HC at UConn when Joe was the OC, said this when he got the Penn State job.
"Joe is as good of an offensive coordinator, quarterback coach and play-caller as there is around. He'll do a great job at Penn State. They got a steal. Those kids will love him."
"He was able to take all the pieces we had and put them together ...," Edsall said. "He's not one of those guys who is stubborn and says, 'This is how we have to do it.' He's going to take his personnel and utilize their abilities to the max for the offense to be successful. James really helped himself with that hire."
https://www.ydr.com/story/sports/col...head/77314840/
I think it was challenging in the sense that you have a record setting QB at running the ball who was the face of the program coming off of a pretty horrific injury that was dirty...but at the same time he was also a known party animal, got suspended in game one, and was very inaccurate. I think we were solid at RB, TE, and C/G. That's only about half of the offense. People talk about how good Dan was- but this offense put up similar numbers all told in 2017 and 2018. People can scream but...….but.....CONFERENCE games.....all they want to. This offense also blew out all of our OOC opponents- Dan did not one out of four times. Not complaining because we usually still won and that's all that matters plus everyone has an off day. Point is that's a far cry from Crooooom-esque. We also hung 52 on Arkansas and 35 on the road against Ole Miss in what was probably honestly the best all around Egg Bowl I have ever seen us play as I was not alive in 1909 or whatever year it was that we beat Ole Miss 65-0. We also scored in the 20's against A&M and Auburn which was good enough to win and those were quality SEC teams. All of that tells me it wasn't the system and that we need to add talent to the roster. Because when we are getting beat by LSU and allowing 17 and Alabama and allow 24 that tells me we are there on defense in terms of talent because there have definitely been times in other years where the defense wasn't "there" yet either.Quote:
Originally Posted by DancingRabbit
I also find it interesting that Joe has now taken over as the OC since Getsy left. That makes me wonder how much was called by Joe vs Getsy and it makes me wonder if Joe disagreed with a lot of what Getsy was calling- however much that may have been. It kind of reminds me of when Les Koenning left and Dan took over as the OC after 2013. The whole reason why Dan hired Les was so he could focus on being the head coach until he realized that he could handle both calling plays and managing the team. Perhaps Joe had the same thought in year one?
I think Dan would have been more vertical if he had the receivers to do it but I'm not sure that he didn't want them. I think he felt like he was so smart of a OC and that his offense was so good he could plug in anyone including three smurfs at WR and he would still put up tons of points. I think he valued his friends over that as a result. We didn't have offensive tackles either and I'm 100% that wasn't because we didn't want them either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach007
We talking about Stephen F Austin, man! I recall Hill taking a swing pass 70-80 yards for a TD. I remember KT skipping a ball to an open WR early In The game. Missing others. It wasn?t a clean game. Just a total mismatch in talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
And the TD to Williams was wounded duck that would had been intercepted in most high school gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
I know this is a thread hijack - but did y'all see that Jalon Jones for UF has entered the transfer portal? Is this a record for an early enrollee? Not a good look for UF. - https://www.dawgnation.com/football/...en-jalon-jones
Franks/Emory Jones this year and nextQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
Emory Jones the following year
I think the kid is smart to leave now
If he was smart he would have never went there to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Maybe so, but correcting a mistake at once is better than digging in fartherQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Well, the rumor is that he beat up a female so if that's true I'm not sure he corrected much of anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
So those are questioning CJM for looking and making sure we have the best chance to win football games with the right QB
Hopefully they also questioned CDM when he was out courting Cam Newton when we had Tyler Russell up next ready to go
Not saying that Tommy Stevens by any stretch is Cam but it’s the same situation. .
And I have no issue with KT running the show if he is ready to go. Hopefully they will be fixed , if we don’t get a QB transfer they have to be
Except that it isn't the same situation at all because that was Cam Newton the guy that carried his team to a natty and won the heisman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Fitz never faced a shitty team either? 473 yards is 473 yards and he did it in only 3 quarters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
The only similarities that I see are the relationships between Mullen/Newton and Moorhead/Stevens and the need for a better option at QB....Newton was clearly a better option over Russell but I don't think there is any evidence to support Stevens being clearly better than KT. I also don't see Illinois or Bowling Green coughing up $100K to swoop in and steal Stevens from Joe.....LOL
Nobody thought that is what Cam would end up doing during his recruitment. Everybody knew he was good and talented but you are using what he did after the fact which is irrelevant to what Ari posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
He had just won the JC Natty and basically looked like Superman...so there's thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
He wasn’t even in the Heisman talk during the Sept games. So no, he wasn’t thought of as being close to what he actually accomplished during his recruitingQuote:
Originally Posted by Doggie_Style
I like KT a whole lot more now than I did Tyler in 2009 and even if we didn't know he'd win the Heisman it was and is clearly obvious Cam Newton is miles better than a PSU backup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
YOU don't see the evidence, but Joe is more equipped to evaluate who between KT and Stevens is better at running his offense more so than anyone on the planet. He's actually seen both of them running it! Why are some message board fans not giving him the benefit of the doubt on this? Because he didn't adjust the offense to Fitz? Those two things are in no way related and it's incredible that people are trying to link them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doggie_Style
Some of y'all got some revisionist history going on with Cam Newton. Nobody knew who this dude was in November of 2009, but everybody knew who he was in November 2010.
The problem with the whole analogy - and I can't believe no one picked up on this - is that we wouldn't have had Cam replacing Russell. Cam would have replaced Relf and Russell. Relf was a big question mark going into the 2010 season. He had been the hero of the '09 Egg Bowl but somewhat pedestrian as a back up. Russell was so venerated as a passer that many thought he would overtake Relf even though he was just a redshirt freshman.
Where the analogy is right is that Dan was working with 2 questionable choices - Relf who had not proven himself as a passer, and Russell who wasn't a fit for his system (and wasn't ready) - and to advance his abilities to fully implement HIS system was going after HIS guy.
It seems like we're going down some weird rabbit holes and making some shaky arguments (on both "sides") over a fairly straightforward situation. Of course we would look at opportunities to upgrade the QB room. we've been doing it. We might be OK with KT but it looks like Stevens could be an upgrade. Joe is the best guy out there to know and he seems to handle the room pretty well, so I'm not worried about chemistry issues.
Even Mahlzan didn’t trust his passing early in 2010. And he wasn’t close to lighting it up either. This is all revising history to fit your point of view. Especially early that season. There was no hype for him until mid late Oct. He had 5 picks his first 6 games. No big rushing games vs conference teams until Kentucky in Oct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Cam was special and it was immediately obvious by just watching him. Kinda like watching LeBron James in high school. It didn't take long to notice they weren't like everyone else on the court/field. Cam was the #1 pick in the draft and shoulda been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
That’s just not true. Auburn didn’t even offer him until late, they were not sure on him. It wasn’t like he had every D1 school after him after JUCO. He ended up having a special year at Auburn. Nobody thought he was close to being that special coming out of JUCO. Nobody was thinking that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Newton was the most highly recruited JC QB in the nation when he signed with Auburn and they thought enough of him to pay the $$$. Yea some teams were reluctant due to the stolen laptop situation at Florida but he lit it up at Blinn, won a JC natty and was the top JC QB. Stevens has thrown 41 passes in 4 years.......no comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Not talking about Fitz. I’m talking about KT v SFA ..... 13 of 31 attempts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I’ve never brought up Stevens. What I’ve pointed out is that Cam was not thought of to be close to some of y’all are revising with his history. Cam was the #1 JUCO QB...Randal Mackey was #2. He was down to us, Auburn and KState and had 3 other offers but OK was not commutable. Arizona and UNC. Spin all you want but nobody, not even the few schools recruiting him and the one who signed him, thought he would have the year he did. Nobody was predicting that, preseason or the first half of the seasonQuote:
Originally Posted by Doggie_Style
As usual some of you aren’t getting the point
If CJM thought KT was the guy needed to lead this team to the level he wants he wouldn’t be out looking for someone that MAY be able to do that
The same way CDM did with Cam
Again I never said or hinted that Stevens is Cam , hell Kelly Bryant isn’t even close to Cam
But there is a reason CJM is a little worried about the QB position, and we should be thankful he is trying to fix the problem
And I I don’t give a **** what teams are after Stevens
The same way no one was after Minshaw and we see how that turned out at Wash state.
If Stevens comes he comes . If he doesn’t he doesn’t.
It’s KT ‘s job to lose wether he comes or not. If he can beat him great, if Stevens wins the jobs great as well
Actually, he did...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Fitz vs Samford in 2016, 536 total yds
I'd say that there are definitely questions about KT at this point in time.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
I would agree with Ari that the situation is similar because Relf really didn't fit Dan's offense all that well as a passer at least and probably fit in better at a Georgia Tech/Paul Johnson style of offense.
We get Cam Newton and no question 2010 is even better than it was and we probably blow some people like Florida and Georgia out that year and probably beat at a minimum Arkansas and Auburn and who knows beyond that with LSU and Alabama?