My guess on OM sanctions

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

I think the penalties will shake out something like this:

4 years probation
30 - 35 scholarships docked
2 year show cause for Freeze
Multiple show cause rulings for assistants (10 years for Farrar)
2 year bowl ban
Additional financial penalties
Recruiting visit and recruit contact limitations

This seems underwhelming, but it would cripple Ole Miss. They would lose their coach, have their hands tied in recruiting, see their young talent transfer out, and have to field a team of walk-ons and players they are battling sun belt teams for. It would take them 10 years to overcome it. Oh, and there's the repeat offender watch, too, so any misstep during that time would make it worse.

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An aggravated Level 1 violation calls for 6-10 years of probation, so considering the number of Level 1's and the LOIC charge I think that they will be looking at a much longer probationary period....otherwise I think those penalties look realistic.

And yes, those sanctions would cripple OM. USC got 30 over 3 and at the end of those 3 years, this LA Times article describes their roster situation as follows:

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Scholarship reductions combined with injuries, transfers and attrition left USC's football team with 44 available scholarship players for last season's Las Vegas Bowl. That's 41 fewer than the NCAA maximum, so it will take at least two years of signing maximum-size recruiting classes of 25 before the Trojans are back to full roster strength.

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Consider OM in that situation and combine it with the fact that they will have to recruit by the book.....it would cripple them for a decade. And anyone expecting much more than that is not being realistic.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

Well Hells Bells! No wonder they didn't do a damn thing to stop the cheating train. Why would they even make an effort to clean up their operation if there's a ceiling on the penalties the NCAA can hand down?

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

If there is no solid, concrete reason to curtail the cheating due to minimal consequences, then what is the incentive to put a stop to them? This shit was systematic and it was orchestrated from the very core of the Athletic Department. When the Asst AD facilitates Booster/Recruit involvement, when he does all of the necessary leg work to introduce Boosters to specific recruits and aids in administering impermissible benefits then there is no control or oversight involved.

When the staffer continues to operate while the NCAA is in the building actively investigating, then someone within the institution directed him to do so knowing there'd be no repercussions down the road. OleMiss/Barney and the staff never even checked up during the investigation, they continued on business a usual. Then after the first NOA was received and the NCAA gave them a heads up on Barney's sideshow enterprise they chose to keep him on staff, WTF?

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Locke's on fire today, rep given bro.

Business as usual WILL be there downfall as the NCAA was already in da house!!!

If the NCAA isn't going to punish harsher than why not go and get Greg Little after Laramy Tunsil spilled The beans.

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Originally Posted by DancingRabbit

Neal McCready wrote yesterday that he thinks most Ole Miss fans will begrudgingly accept:

1 year bowl ban
15-20 scholarships
Suspension for Hugh Freeze

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I just don't get how they think they are going to get off lighter than USCw. That's a much more storied program getting caught with much, much less.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I just don't get how they think they are going to get off lighter than USCw. That's a much more storied program getting caught with much, much less.

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Because those delusional bastards think they are a storied program. They think they are on par with Bama, ND and USC.

They need to prepare thine anus for a pounding.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

"The second violation occurred within five years of the starting date of the penalty assessed in the first case." It has to happen after that point.

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From NCAA.org FAQ:

What is the ?death penalty??
The repeat-violator legislation (?death penalty?) is applicable to an institution if, within a five-year period, the following conditions exist:

1. Following the announcement of a major case, a major violation occurs and
2. The second violation occurred within five years of the starting date of the penalty assessed in the first case. The second major case does not have to be in the same sport as the previous case to affect the second sport.
http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/enfo...cess-penalties

We know the NCAA was investigating the WBB program by 2012. Would that not satisfy the first requirement? Would not the NCAA have announced to UNM there was a "major case" being investigated before they began their investigation?

If so, then at least some of the stuff in the recent NOA's should satisfy #2, nez pa?

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

2 year bowl ban
3 years probation
24 schollies over 3 years.

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All schollies over four years, club football for another four, D III for another three, and then ANOTHER Death Penalty just for Shits and Giggles.

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Originally Posted by Mutt the Hoople

All schollies over four years, club football for another four, D III for another three, and then ANOTHER Death Penalty just for Shits and Giggles.

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That *MIGHT* finish them off.

People are joking about the death oenalty, butbif the NCAA has any teeth that's exactly what will happen. Ole Miss peed on them for 4 years abdntold them it was raining.

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Originally Posted by Johnson85

I just don't get how they think they are going to get off lighter than USCw. That's a much more storied program getting caught with much, much less.

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They don't seriously think they will get of lite. On social media they come across as if everything will be fine, they'll get a slap on the wrist, they'll "begrudgingly accept" minuscule penalties. The facade you portray on a message board/twitter is nothing but a farce. They know, just like anyone else that has read the 1st NOA and watched the hostage video regarding the amended NOA that these allegations are just about as bad as any one program can accumulate.

When multiple sports, spanning multiple coaches, and multiple ADs are tagged with Academic Fraud, Lack of Institutional Control, and a HC is pegged with Failure to Monitor his on staffers then that reaches historical proportions.

The USC case on Reggie Bush was an isolated incident in the eyes of the NCAA. Pete Carroll was never named by the NCAA, and those charge were for ONE player, under ONE sport. They STILL haven't recovered from their sanctions.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

"The second violation occurred within five years of the starting date of the penalty assessed in the first case." It has to happen after that point.

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I see what you're saying. But didn't UNM "self-impose" some penalties on WBB early in the process. Coach got fired, self-imposed post-season ban, I think. Would that count, or is it only after the NCAA officially accepts that as part or whole penalties?

Technically speaking, "within 5 years" can be around the date of penalties announced, before & after, so long as it is after a major case has been announced. Probably not what they meant, but maybe it is left a little vague on purpose.

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Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

From NCAA.org FAQ:

What is the ?death penalty??
The repeat-violator legislation (?death penalty?) is applicable to an institution if, within a five-year period, the following conditions exist:

1. Following the announcement of a major case, a major violation occurs and
2. The second violation occurred within five years of the starting date of the penalty assessed in the first case. The second major case does not have to be in the same sport as the previous case to affect the second sport.
http://www.ncaa.org/enforcement/enfo...cess-penalties

We know the NCAA was investigating the WBB program by 2012. Would that not satisfy the first requirement? Would not the NCAA have announced to UNM there was a "major case" being investigated before they began their investigation?

If so, then at least some of the stuff in the recent NOA's should satisfy #2, nez pa?

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Both conditions have to be met and announcing the penalties is the NCAA announcement of a major case. Until the COI announces the final disposition and penalties the NCAA can only say they are investigating allegations. The NCAA can not officially announce a NOA, that has to come from the school.

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Originally Posted by blacklistedbully

I see what you're saying. But didn't UNM "self-impose" some penalties on WBB early in the process. Coach got fired, self-imposed post-season ban, I think. Would that count, or is it only after the NCAA officially accepts that as part or whole penalties?

Technically speaking, "within 5 years" can be around the date of penalties announced, before & after, so long as it is after a major case has been announced. Probably not what they meant, but maybe it is left a little vague on purpose.

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Until the NCAA makes an official final statement after the COI meeting, that includes the final penalties, the clock can not begin prior to that date for the repeat offender clause. Both the final penalty phase announced report from the NCAA and a major violation occurring within 5 years from that starting point have to occur before it triggers the repeat offender clause.

Self-Imposing penalties is strickly to attempt to mitigate the level of the infraction. Until the COI meeting happens and they release their final judgement, the NCAA has not announced a case. They can't by the by-laws. And when dealing with a private university, unless outside pressure forces them to do so, they don't have to release the NOA or their response. So the only time the NCAA can make an announcement is after the COI meeting and final penalty phase.

As far as WBB and track at UNM, by the NCAA separating the NOA and moving to final penalty phase for those sports, that's the reason why the clock started in Oct of 2016. Otherwise we would still be waiting for the repeat offender clock to start.

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Originally Posted by LockeDawg

Well Hells Bells! No wonder they didn't do a damn thing to stop the cheating train. Why would they even make an effort to clean up their operation if there's a ceiling on the penalties the NCAA can hand down?

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

People are joking about the death oenalty, butbif the NCAA has any teeth that's exactly what will happen. Ole Miss peed on them for 4 years abdntold them it was raining.

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Lets see -- on the harsh "DP definitely in play" side we've got reason2succeed, blacklistedbully, Dawgology, WSOPdawg, Hack, Mutt, Mimi, shotgun, TrapGame, BeardoMSU, Liverpooldawg, Devious, LockeDawg & BulldogBear.

On the "NCAA will never give another school the DP" side, we got confucious, Bubb Rubb, Really Clark, sand wolf, spiderman, TUSK, preachermattt

with Rando moving closer and closer to "DP definitely in play" by the day. If I missed anybody or recorded your side incorrectly, please make the addition or correction.

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Originally Posted by Mutt the Hoople

All schollies over four years, club football for another four, D III for another three, and then ANOTHER Death Penalty just for Shits and Giggles.

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Damn, with no ***. Even I'm like "that's too much though". Hahahahaha! I like how you think.

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Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

Lets see -- on the harsh "DP definitely in play" side we've got reason2succeed, blacklistedbully, Dawgology, WSOPdawg, Hack, Mutt, Mimi, shotgun, TrapGame, BeardoMSU, Liverpooldawg, Devious, LockeDawg & BulldogBear.

On the "NCAA will never give another school the DP" side, we got confucious, Bubb Rubb, Really Clark, sand wolf, spiderman, TUSK, preachermattt

with Rando moving closer and closer to "DP definitely in play" by the day. If I missed anybody or recorded your side incorrectly, please make the addition or correction.

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You better have a quote where I ever said that. In fact a year or so back when talking about that very subject I was one of the ones who pointed out it has actually been used since SMU and Texas St almost had ALL if their sports programs shut down a few years ago and how because of the heinous scandal at Penn St which NCAA legislation never even considered, that the COI actually discussed the DP. I don't believe at all that it won't ever be used again. But I also don't believe they will or should use it unless the conditions in the legislation, that effects and are agreed upon by all schools, are met. At this time the only I know for a fact is the clock has started, in Oct 2016. Until an allegation is made by the NCAA that they committed another major infraction since last Oct, then by their and the member schools own legislation, it can't be triggered. Speculation on whether they have committed major violations or not is outside of the COI, matrix, and repeat offender clause. I don't doubt they have. I do doubt it will be in the revised NOA. If so, then that is a totally different conversation.

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Originally Posted by preachermatt83

2 year bowl ban
3 years probation
24 schollies over 3 years.

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I felt the way you did before the amended NOA. If UM had canned Freeze, the penalties probably would've been less severe. Now that they've decided to go down with the ship:

44 schollies over 4 years
3 year bowl ban
2010-2015 wins vacated
8 Year probation
10-year show cause for Freeze

I think Dan Wolken tweeted out that he heard or expected between 45-60! scholarships lost. There are some punishments worse than death.

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Originally Posted by WSOPdawg

Lets see -- on the harsh "DP definitely in play" side we've got reason2succeed, blacklistedbully, Dawgology, WSOPdawg, Hack, Mutt, Mimi, shotgun, TrapGame, BeardoMSU, Liverpooldawg, Devious, LockeDawg & BulldogBear.

On the "NCAA will never give another school the DP" side, we got confucious, Bubb Rubb, Really Clark, sand wolf, spiderman, TUSK, preachermattt

with Rando moving closer and closer to "DP definitely in play" by the day. If I missed anybody or recorded your side incorrectly, please make the addition or correction.

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I couldn't be prouder to be the first name in a list of die hard bulldawgs that want to see OM publicly humiliated and decimated for their sins against college football.

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Originally Posted by Negative Waves

I felt the way you did before the amended NOA. If UM had canned Freeze, the penalties probably would've been less severe. Now that they've decided to go down with the ship:

44 schollies over 4 years
3 year bowl ban
2010-2015 wins vacated
8 Year probation
10-year show cause for Freeze

I think Dan Wolken tweeted out that he heard or expected between 45-60! scholarships lost. There are some punishments worse than death.

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Attrition is normal on the best, most viable teams at 100% capacity with no NCAA penalties. Injuries are normal on the most healthy teams. Add in the loss of 40 scholly's over a 4 yr period + normal attrition + normal injuries and you'd be lucky to field a team that's 2 deep on both sides of the ball with everyone of them contributing on special teams.

There are indeed things worse than death.

For reference of historic cases and lost scholarships, SMU lost 55 over 4 years in 1987 DP case