I'm really liking the way we are trending with QB's

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

History is on the side of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tenn and Florida. Nobody outside of that group nobody has won the SEC outright since 1963. Kentucky tied with Georgia in 1976. That's the history. We want to get and stay in the second tier for a significant period of time. Everyone wants that. The only team recently to come close was So Car under Spurrier for 4 years. And he changed to accomplish that with the talent he was getting, different than how he did it at Florida. He was running it nearly 60% of the time and would try to hit some big plays. Not saying that we or anyone else from the lower tier has to do it ONLY that way but conversely you can't say it can only be done your way either.

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And UT hasn't won this century.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

That's like comparing Bill Russell's era to Shaq's..players were different...schemes were different...it can't be done reasonably..youre grasping at straws now....and history is definitely on my side and it's irrelevant that you don't want to see it...

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None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's kind of crazy that only those six have won the SEC since 1963. A little surprised that Ole Miss didn't win it once in that span in the 1960's. I'm sure they probably claim a title that they tied but didn't really win the tiebreaker knowing them.

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They were the last one outright in 1963. Just didn't want to type their stupid name in that post. Lol

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

And UT hasn't won this century.

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That's very true

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

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I love Leach, but there's a reason his Texas Tech teams never played for a Natty. You've got to be able to pound the rock.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

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Absolutely correct...when you have the talent advantages that they have you can play that way... we don't and won't in the foreseeable future so we have to be different ... We can play like them and have a mediocre ceiling, which is what most here want...or we can do it differently and have a mediocre floor.... which is what I want....to each his own...

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

I love Leach, but there's a reason his Texas Tech teams never played for a Natty. You've got to be able to pound the rock.

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This mentality is simply a recipe for mediocrity here... it's fine for Bama, Georgia, LSU, but it'll just keep us as a middling team that'll beat om half the time.... I just want better than that...

Shucks, we are excited about a PWO and a back up. Meanwhile, our in state rival just pulled a State family kid (family has a box at DWS) to come compete with their sophomore starting QB and we are excited about a PWO.

It doesn?t matter what offense we run, we need to upgrade the talent. I hate giving those guys credit but they figure out what ways to replace WRs and upgrade the skill positions unlike we do.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

Shucks, we are excited about a PWO and a back up. Meanwhile, our in state rival just pulled a State family kid (family has a box at DWS) to come compete with their sophomore starting QB and we are excited about a PWO.

It doesn?t matter what offense we run, we need to upgrade the talent. I hate giving those guys credit but they figure out what ways to replace WRs and upgrade the skill positions unlike we do.

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Dont say stuff like this, the gatekeepers will call you a troll and closet reb

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Originally Posted by mo7888

This mentality is simply a recipe for mediocrity here... it's fine for Bama, Georgia, LSU, but it'll just keep us as a middling team that'll beat om half the time.... I just want better than that...

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Bro, you want a fantasy.

Saban pushed our shit in for 3 years. The AR didn't make a damn bit of difference. And yes, you do have to be able to pound the rock. That is football 101. If Leach had adapted his scheme to employ ground support for his air raid we would have been talking very differently about the three years under Leach because we would have been able to run the ball opening up opportunities for passes downfield for the air raid concepts.

Howard going to OM I'm expecting Dart to hit the portal, it may be after spring practice but still think he leaves. I know he plays for the bad guys but think he would fit well in Barbay's offense.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I'll say this as I've said before. If we want to take the next step we have to recruit better. Scheme is secondary to the talent making it work. That goes for Leach and Mullen.

MSU needs to focus a lot more on building up our recruiting and focus less on getting some football genius to outscheme Alabama.

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At this point, that all comes down to money. I'm just not sure how we compete. We have spent real money on our current team to bring back real dudes on defense and sign a couple of nice HS kids, but overall it does not appear that we are competing for portal kids and HS kids that require big money.

This whole thing is a clusterf@ck.

There seems to be alot of back and forth here about offensive strategy. It seems simple to me.

You want an offense that give the defense as much as possible to consider and you want to spread the defense out as much as possible. So, you want as close to a balanced run/pass ratio as possible. You'd want to add TE's because they can both block for runs and catch passes. Spread the field some and have a QB that can run it as well. Add in play action, misdirection, and tempo. To me, that would be the ideal offense.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Bro, you want a fantasy.

Saban pushed our shit in for 3 years. The AR didn't make a damn bit of difference. And yes, you do have to be able to pound the rock. That is football 101. If Leach had adapted his scheme to employ ground support for his air raid we would have been talking very differently about the three years under Leach because we would have been able to run the ball opening up opportunities for passes downfield for the air raid concepts.

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You just gonna forget Saban pushing us in every year since ?07?? You know how OM beat him and got to those two Sugar Bowls that 34 mentioned? They beat them going over the top. In 2014 that ran the ball 32 times for a remarkable 75 yards!! And in 2015 that ran 32 times for another 92 yard performance.

You know what beats the teams? It ain?t scheme, it?s players. So instead of arguing about the scheme, we need to start getting the talent. And the talent alone in MS isn?t going to get it done. We were increasing our footprint and need to keep that up with the new staff. Because of AJ and Metcalf, MS isn?t producing the offensive skill guys that the surrounding states are.

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

You just gonna forget Saban pushing us in every year since ?07?? You know how OM beat him and got to those two Sugar Bowls that 34 mentioned? They beat them going over the top. In 2014 that ran the ball 32 times for a remarkable 75 yards!! And in 2015 that ran 32 times for another 92 yard performance.

You know what beats the teams? It ain?t scheme, it?s players. So instead of arguing about the scheme, we need to start getting the talent. And the talent alone in MS isn?t going to get it done. We were increasing our footprint and need to keep that up with the new staff. Because of AJ and Metcalf, MS isn?t producing the offensive skill guys that the surrounding states are.

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2014 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 31 passes
2015 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 33 passes

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

You just gonna forget Saban pushing us in every year since ?07?? You know how OM beat him and got to those two Sugar Bowls that 34 mentioned? They beat them going over the top.

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They blatantly cheated in ways that are still illegal. Got incredibly lucky (qb throws up a prayer, bounces off a db's helmet into the WR's hands).

And went over the top.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

2014 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 31 passes
2015 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 33 passes

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Not to mention UM won the turnover battle both years...especially 2015. Bama 5 turnovers UM 0. I don't care who you are, if you cough it up at a 5 to 0 margin, you are going to lose 99% of those games

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Originally Posted by msstate7

2014 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 31 passes
2015 OM vs bama: 32 runs, 33 passes

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How did I know you would come in here with your stats. Per usual, though, you miss out important data that included yards and TDs. I?ve included those below for you:


2014: 32 runs, 76 yards, 0 TDs. 18/31 passing 251 yards, 3 TDs.

2015: 32 runs, 92, 2 TDs, 2.9 avg rush. 18/33 passing, 341 yards, 3 TDs.


So I ask again-how did they win? They generated big plays through the air to win. But again they had big play WRs, the two generational WRs in MS the last last 10 years. We have not recruited well at WR to find those. They have done a better job recruiting skills guy than we have. But again, as usual, you miss the point.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

They blatantly cheated in ways that are still illegal. Got incredibly lucky (qb throws up a prayer, bounces off a db's helmet into the WR's hands).

And went over the top.

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Yeah those 3 and 15s in 2014 Blake Sims scrambles weren?t drawn up were they?

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

How did I know you would come in here with your stats. Per usual, though, you miss out important data that included yards and TDs. I?ve included those below for you:


2014: 32 runs, 76 yards, 0 TDs. 18/31 passing 251 yards, 3 TDs.

2015: 32 runs, 92, 2 TDs, 2.9 avg rush. 18/33 passing, 341 yards, 3 TDs.


So I ask again-how did they win? They generated big plays through the air to win. But again they had big play WRs, the two generational WRs in MS the last last 10 years. We have not recruited well at WR to find those. They have done a better job recruiting skills guy than we have. But again, as usual, you miss the point.

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The balance is what opened up those big plays.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

The balance is what opened up those big plays.

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You're missing the point.......still. You can be balanced as all hell, but if you don't have athletes that can take the top off then it doesn't matter. No one will respect you. There's a portion of this fan base that would rather have Vic Sutton throwing 2 yd slants to some walk on JUCO player because they're MS boys instead of the mercenaries that it takes to win.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

Bro, you want a fantasy.

Saban pushed our shit in for 3 years. The AR didn't make a damn bit of difference. And yes, you do have to be able to pound the rock. That is football 101. If Leach had adapted his scheme to employ ground support for his air raid we would have been talking very differently about the three years under Leach because we would have been able to run the ball opening up opportunities for passes downfield for the air raid concepts.

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Talk about fantasy....

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Originally Posted by mo7888

Talk about fantasy....

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You have wing T high school coaches speaking out against the AR and passing the football in this thread. Don?t listen to them. You absolutely do not have to pound the football to win. That?s a myth that analytics has proven false.

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Originally Posted by KB21

You have wing T high school coaches speaking out against the AR and passing the football in this thread. Don?t listen to them. You absolutely do not have to pound the football to win. That?s a myth that analytics has proven false.

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Yup... it's quite clear... but you're not gonna convince people who are conditioned to embrace an outdated concept and find security in mediocrity..

What you AR guys think about dykes going veer and shoot?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

What you AR guys think about dykes going veer and shoot?

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I don't think he is... I think you're seeing three things here 1) I think you are seeing Dykes incorporating more concepts into their scheme, 2) I think you're seeing Briles getting away from a QB that's limited and will be able to open his playboook more than he could with KJ, and 3) Dykes isonly making this move because his OC was hired away...not fired...

In the end Briles will conform more to Dykes style than Dykes will conform to Briles...

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Originally Posted by KB21

You have wing T high school coaches speaking out against the AR and passing the football in this thread. Don?t listen to them. You absolutely do not have to pound the football to win. That?s a myth that analytics has proven false.

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lmao. I've never run the Wing-T and have been a Spread guy for awhile 2004. I havent run the I-formation since 1997. My last 2 offenses have thrown the ball more than run.

Nobody is saying you have to be run heavy- just that running the ball is a must for a successful offense.

2019 LSU offense- one of the best ever if not the best:

PPG- 48.4
Passing 426/567 6024 yards 401 PG
Rushing 513/2502 166 PG

567 passes to 513 rushes

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Originally Posted by KB21

You have wing T high school coaches speaking out against the AR and passing the football in this thread. Don?t listen to them. You absolutely do not have to pound the football to win. That?s a myth that analytics has proven false.

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When we ran the ball 25% of the time under Leach good things happened. You have to at least have some form of running game. You guys that still want to throw it 70 times a game are massively stupid.

There's absolutely, 100% no question in this day and age to be successful consistently you have to have a very good passing game, no question. That being said you don't have to throw it 60 times a game to have an effective passing game AND you have to have some semblance of a good running game or teams are just gonna tee off on your qb and wrs. Even Brady can't win a game when he has to throw it 60+ times.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

There's absolutely, 100% no question in this day and age to be successful consistently you have to have a very good passing game, no question. That being said you don't have to throw it 60 times a game to have an effective passing game AND you have to have some semblance of a good running game or teams are just gonna tee off on your qb and wrs. Even Brady can't win a game when he has to throw it 60+ times.

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And why some people cannot grasp this very simple concept makes me think they're just trolls.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

There's absolutely, 100% no question in this day and age to be successful consistently you have to have a very good passing game, no question. That being said you don't have to throw it 60 times a game to have an effective passing game AND you have to have some semblance of a good running game or teams are just gonna tee off on your qb and wrs. Even Brady can't win a game when he has to throw it 60+ times.

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Agree 100%. They just think any system other than air raid is 3 yards in a cloud of dust. It's cult like

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Originally Posted by BankerDog

You just gonna forget Saban pushing us in every year since ?07?? You know how OM beat him and got to those two Sugar Bowls that 34 mentioned? They beat them going over the top. In 2014 that ran the ball 32 times for a remarkable 75 yards!! And in 2015 that ran 32 times for another 92 yard performance.

You know what beats the teams? It ain?t scheme, it?s players. So instead of arguing about the scheme, we need to start getting the talent. And the talent alone in MS isn?t going to get it done. We were increasing our footprint and need to keep that up with the new staff. Because of AJ and Metcalf, MS isn?t producing the offensive skill guys that the surrounding states are.

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In 2014 they beat Bama because the Bama OC at the time went totally dumshit and inexplainably abandoned the run game at the OM 15 yardline about to put the 21st point up on them. Then the OM pass defense won that game by giving their Off great field position the rest of the game. In 2015 well 5 turnovers at your own 20 will beat you every time/ Oh year the Bama OC at the time was Kiffen.

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Originally Posted by TrapGame

And why some people cannot grasp this very simple concept makes me think they're just trolls.

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I loved Mike Leach and have watched him since he started coaching. I love the passing game, it's extremely fun to watch. Just like with anything else though when you become to one dimensional, it's one less thing defenses have to worry about. Its just like pitching to hitters. If all you got is a fastball you're gonna get hit because hitters will catch up to it at some point, you have to keep them off balance. Same is true in football, baseball, basketball whatever the sport.

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Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

I loved Mike Leach and have watched him since he started coaching. I love the passing game, it's extremely fun to watch. Just like with anything else though when you become to one dimensional, it's one less thing defenses have to worry about. Its just like pitching to hitters. If all you got is a fastball you're gonna get hit because hitters will catch up to it at some point, you have to keep them off balance. Same is true in football, baseball, basketball whatever the sport.

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Exactly. This is why a lot of offensive coordinators starting using air raid concepts in their passing game, but they already had a run game to go with it. They didn't abandon the whole concept of running the ball.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

lmao. I've never run the Wing-T and have been a Spread guy for awhile 2004. I havent run the I-formation since 1997. My last 2 offenses have thrown the ball more than run.

Nobody is saying you have to be run heavy- just that running the ball is a must for a successful offense.

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You will not convince AR stupidity anything on this subject. Their narrative is in concrete, end of story.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

2019 LSU offense- one of the best ever if not the best:

PPG- 48.4
Passing 426/567 6024 yards 401 PG
Rushing 513/2502 166 PG

567 passes to 513 rushes

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Facts are not allowed in this discussion on AR and running the ball. BTW, LSU didn't run AR passing either.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Agree 100%. They just think any system other than air raid is 3 yards in a cloud of dust. It's cult like

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Yep. Look how much running the ball has progressed over the years. The AR did too except the version we had which was 30 years old.

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Originally Posted by mo7888

Yup... it's quite clear... but you're not gonna convince people who are conditioned to embrace an outdated concept and find security in mediocrity..

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So 500 football with the AR isn't mediocrity? OK

Facts? Like this?
https://staturdays.com/2019/09/23/sh...-run-the-ball/