Just a reminder to all you guys

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Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

And I'm sure we'll insist/require he doesn't do that here...

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Surely.

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Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

We can all see who the options are and what value each has. We most certainly can evaluate which ones are better than others. What chances Vegas says we have at getting someone is irrelevant. Other than to say we're incapable of getting who we should.

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No, you can see what names are floated out by "insiders" and formulate your own opinion of their value, but there's nothing that says those names are an accurate representation of Selmon's list, and even if those names are accurate, Selmon's evaluation of their value may differ than your's.

What if Lebby was our second or third option the whole time? How would that be settling?

Point is, we don't know, and anyone that pretends to know is doing just that...pretending.

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Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

We can all see who the options are and what value each has. We most certainly can evaluate which ones are better than others. What chances Vegas says we have at getting someone is irrelevant. Other than to say we're incapable of getting who we should.

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That's pretty much the way it's always been.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

No, you can see what names are floated out by "insiders" and formulate your own opinion of their value, but there's nothing that says those names are an accurate representation of Selmon's list, and even if those names are accurate, Selmon's evaluation of their value may differ than your's.

What if Lebby was our second or third option the whole time? How would that be settling?

Point is, we don't know, and anyone that pretends to know is doing just that...pretending.

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There is always a general consensus about who the best available candidates are.

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Originally Posted by EdwardDrayton

There is always a general consensus about who the best available candidates are.

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On a message board, sure.

But that doesn't mean the consensus is reality.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Lol at some of y'all. Lebby has worked at 4 schools since the Baylor stuff and nothing has been an issue for them. He's been cleared by 4 schools, including our in-state rival, and has done nothing but kill it on his side of the ball.

Would I have liked to have hired a sitting HC? Maybe. But I think that is overvalued. Was Kirby Smart a HC before? Dan Lanning? Dan Mullen? Ryan Day?

Lebby is no more of a risk than a mid G5 HC would be.

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UGA has never hired the equivalent of a P5 HC. In fact, all their HC going back to WWII - with the exception of Jim Donnan - have been coordinators and 1st time HC's. There is no formula for what will be successful at MSU - none. Our most successful HC's post integration have been hiring our own OC, hiring a man fired twice and considered "toxic" by the NCAA, Florida's OC, and a kooky pirate who wanted to prove a point.

So Selmon - you do you. It will either work out or it won't.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

lol

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Are you saying we couldn't have hired Odom? He's begging for our job

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

If Lebby doesn't believe that Art did anything wrong, that's a big red flag. But if he does, but still associates with him because they're family, OK fine, I understand that.

But it needs to be made clear to Lebby that Briles standing or having any official connection to the program is an automatic fireable offense.

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We've reached the point where we can leave morality out of the equation.... if he was associated with that part of the past then we should be able to rest assured that he has learned a lesson at another school's expense.... guess you can tell that I've transitioned to win baby win .... we're not exactly Camelot

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Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg

UGA has never hired the equivalent of a P5 HC. In fact, all their HC going back to WWII - with the exception of Jim Donnan - have been coordinators and 1st time HC's. There is no formula for what will be successful at MSU - none. Our most successful HC's post integration have been hiring our own OC, hiring a man fired twice and considered "toxic" by the NCAA, Florida's OC, and a kooky pirate who wanted to prove a point.

So Selmon - you do you. It will either work out or it won't.

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Bingo!!!

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Art wasn't cleared. They had to settle with 16 other women. The gross negligence claim against him and McCraw was dismissed on 1 case but the lawsuit was lost and the woman won. She was the one who lied in court contradicting her previous deposition under oath about what she told Lebby.

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Lawsuits aside, the third party investigation cleared him of any wrongdoing, correct?

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Originally Posted by Tater

This is where the binary nature of "guilty / not guilty" doesn't paint you a picture. To answer your question, no Lebby has not stood trial and been "cleared". By all accounts, there is no coach at Baylor from 2012-2015 that is "clear". That would mean proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that person did everything they could right. That's not feasible and you would be right in saying that's an unfair standard to hold someone to.

Our legal system instead looks to prove someone guilty (rather than innocent) beyond a shadow of a doubt. This means that if it's black (guilty) then it's black. If it's white then it's white. If it's gray then it's white. Every coach is firmly in the gray area at best. Art's had a couple of lawsuits where he's been dark grey but since it's not black it's white. Baylor has settled several other cases.

It goes further then for the public opinion to make their decision. Do you want to sit on morals and trust in black and white? That's your right. And Lebby has not ever been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.

But double digit women have come forward and reported the rape-enablement and encouragement culture at Baylor. Meanwhile Jeff consistently PUBLICLY defends Art. It's a pretty easy conclusion to draw where Lebby stands morally in the wake of this. He dismisses the seriousness of what happened. He avidly defends his father in law for having done nothing wrong when Baylor has paid several women for their silence.

You can call my logic taking a leap. But I'm not a court of law. I'm a person with common sense. I won't have my
daughter go near Ole Miss, OU, UCF, SeLa, Baylor, or any other school that let a known wolf into their house who was part of that culture. No one should have to experience the profound pain that occurs when being raped. It's not a joke. It's not something to dismiss.

Jeff Lebby has consistently dismissed and downplayed the significance of what happened. I have 0 faith in his ability to lead young men to become good men. Football is important. Some things are more important.

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"Dismissed and downplayed"
Is there anything you can point me to that shows lebby dismissed or downplayed rape?

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Lawsuits aside, the third party investigation cleared him of any wrongdoing, correct?

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No it didn't.

"The Pepper report has made that role abundantly clear. Briles and his staff permitted players to operate with impunity: coaches routinely failed to report assaults and conducted their own investigations, the findings of which they hid from university administrators and legal authorities."

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

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You and Tater are only ones clutching your pearls over it.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Do we really want a guy that causes so much discussion over an issue like this?

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Its you and 1 other guy

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

You and Tater are only ones clutching your pearls over it.

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I'm not even clutching pearls, I'm just disagreeing with the posters who say that art Briles did nothing wrong, or that Lebby doesn't associate with him.

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Originally Posted by DEDawg

Its you and 1 other guy

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It's not me, but it's way more than 1 other guy.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

On a message board, sure.

But that doesn't mean the consensus is reality.

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On a message board, in the media and among so-called pundits.

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

We've reached the point where we can leave morality out of the equation.... if he was associated with that part of the past then we should be able to rest assured that he has learned a lesson at another school's expense.... guess you can tell that I've transitioned to win baby win .... we're not exactly Camelot

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We can. But we shouldn't.