The wheels are falling off....

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Originally Posted by Jarius

On the play that WSU scored touchdowns they were facing a drop 8 look for 34 of their points. I have said this about 7 times in this thread. They only ran it the amount of times you are talking about because every time they did WSU scored a ****ing touchdown. Do I need to rearrange this post another way so you can comprehend it?

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Jarius, you're doing yeoman's work here. You can explain it to folks, but you can't understand it for them.

The idea that average defenses such as Arkansas and Kentucky executed the perfect air raid beating defensive style that all the Big-12 and PAC-12 defensive coordinators either failed to consider or couldn't pull off is ridiculous. Even more so since Washington did it every year... PAC-12 DC's are just so stupid they didn't think to try it? Come on.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

They were the only team that tried it the entire game - which game did they run more 3-8 than rush 4, give me one game.

The game you posted - they rushed 4 thirty times in the first half compared to rushing 3 nine times. Do i really have to do the 2016 game as well?

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It's obvious to me what Jarius is saying. He's saying that teams have tried the 3-8 but it didn't work so they moved out of it. A better analysis would be to do a statistical analysis of how Leach's teams have done vs the 3-8 on a play by play basis and compare it to when not facing it. I don't feel like doing all of that work but it's obvious if the 3-8 worked like it's working this year then no team would've ever lined up in anything else.

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Originally Posted by Turfdawg67

This is my thinking as well. If Washington shut it down for 8 straight years, surely other teams would have tried it too. It's dumb to think otherwise. And no, I'm not going to waste my time watching WSU games. Lolz

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I've thought the same thing but maybe some of the other coaches are as stubborn as Leach running his scheme and would rather lose running their scheme than change.

Also Pellini was pretty dumb this year several times so yeah it is possible.

The other thing not many are mentioning in this is Pac10 don't care about D, Big12 either. SEC D is an NFL D league in itself. Air raid ain't gonna work against that kind of talent. Now mix it with some other stuff like read option and other running stuff. Yeah it can work.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Hahahaha- how bad does he want a do-over?

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Boy would he. Easy win

Couple of things about the Oregon game he linked, one, they tried to play 3 man on first drive and didn't work. Two, they protected and gave him lots of time to get to multiple reads. Third, they ran it when Oregon had a 4 man front much less three. So lots of differences. None in play calls, all in execution

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Couple of things about the Oregon game he linked, one, they tried to play 3 man on first drive and didn't work. Two, they protected and gave him lots of time to get to multiple reads. Third, they ran it when Oregon had a 4 man front much less three. So lots of differences. None in play calls, all in execution

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Just as I suspected- I didn't watch the video. We have to get our players better at running this offense at all spots. The good news is a lot of our guys are young. By the time they are juniors and seniors they'll have it down pretty well and will have adapted to the speed of the SEC. While we also continue to bring in better talent on offense as well to help out too.

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Originally Posted by Cowbell

Boy would he. Easy win

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I wonder what the score would be now.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I can?t post one because when they give up 34 points in one game off of the same look they generally don?t continue to use that look. You can keep spouting the same ignorance and I?m going to keep telling you the same thing. People don?t Generally continue to Run the same thing when you torch them against that look. Arizona tried to drop 8 some and they got their ass lit up too. Look at them against Minshew. Why on earth would you continue to do what is not working unless you are Bo Pelini?

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It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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It might not be the same, however, the blocking isn't the same either!! Maybe if we could run against a 3 man front, much less a 4, then maybe would could and would be better. Just maybe.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

It might not be the same, however, the blocking isn't the same either!! Maybe if we could run against a 3 man front, much less a 4, then maybe would could and would be better. Just maybe.

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I thought our O-linemen were geared to be run blockers? We can't run b/c we only have 2 running plays and our Oline splits are too wide. Defense also knows the QB run is not a threat. That's why every LB we play has a career game against us.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I thought our O-linemen were geared to be run blockers? We can't run b/c we only have 2 running plays and our Oline splits are too wide. Defense also knows the QB run is not a threat. That's why every LB we play has a career game against us.

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We can't run. Splits, not knowing what to do, whatever, we can't run. We have more than 2 runs. But that's not the point and doesn't matter. I'm not defending our offense to this point. It's a joke. I making a point about games leach coached in the pacific 12. Argue away.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

We can't run. Splits, not knowing what to do, whatever, we can't run. We have more than 2 runs. But that's not the point and doesn't matter. I'm not defending our offense to this point. It's a joke. I making a point about games leach coached in the pacific 12. Argue away.

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I mean, I think we agree. Not arguing. The draw works against other defenses. It has worked for Leach his whole career. The draw doesn't work against what we are seeing.

It's very frustrating bc simple adjustments could make us much better.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

I mean, I think we agree. Not arguing. The draw works against other defenses. It has worked for Leach his whole career. The draw doesn't work against what we are seeing.

It's very frustrating bc simple adjustments could make us much better.

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We've run inside zone. It's stunk. The toss play, which by stats is a pass, has been ok but not great. All I'm saying is we have block better. Even when we have plays "blocked" , 5 blocking 3 the two double teams never released to the next level. If they did the 4 yard play would be 8 or 10. But it hasn't happened yet. Something needs to click.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

I've thought the same thing but maybe some of the other coaches are as stubborn as Leach running his scheme and would rather lose running their scheme than change.

Also Pellini was pretty dumb this year several times so yeah it is possible.

The other thing not many are mentioning in this is Pac10 don't care about D, Big12 either. SEC D is an NFL D league in itself. Air raid ain't gonna work against that kind of talent. Now mix it with some other stuff like read option and other running stuff. Yeah it can work.

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There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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I'm not going to look it up to disagree, but the depth of those leagues doesn't sniff the sec. The nfl draft says your wrong every year. And the guys a step below that are better in our league. The sec is the best year in year out now question....

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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LOLOLOL, thanks for the laugh Matt.

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Originally Posted by Matt3467

There's just as much star talent in the PAC, BIGs, and ACC as there is in the SEC.

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The SEC has more talent but it's all relative because Leach had PAC 12 talent on his team at Washington State and Big 12 talent at Texas Tech.

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Originally Posted by HoopsDawg

It's not the same. Teams are playing 5/6 DB's against us. Arizona was dropping D-linemen in coverage some of the time.

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Oh ok. Go watch the 2018 Arizona game then. They tried the drop 8 with 5 db’s a good bit and gave up 69 points. The play where Gardner hit a guy 20 yards down field to get the score to 21-0 (maybe 21-7?) where he had enough time to eat a sandwich was particularly nice.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Oh ok. Go watch the 2018 Arizona game then. They tried the drop 8 with 5 db’s a good bit and gave up 69 points. The play where Gardner hit a guy 20 yards down field to get the score to 21-0 (maybe 21-7?) where he had enough time to eat a sandwich was particularly nice.

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You know all these looking at highlights of WSU games is great, but there's a few glaring problems that I see that has ZILCH to do with scheme. 1. All of the games you are pulling up are 3-4+ years into the system. 2. Maybe 1 or 2 of the players playing in any of these secondaries could play in the SEC. They simply can't cover for longer than 3-4 seconds. SEC defenses can cover all day long in zone. 3. They can block 3 with 5.

Again, it's like I said earlier it's all great that this offense has worked in the past. But it's just that, IN THE PAST. What he did with Gardner Minshew, Luke Falk, Ryan Hilinski, Anthony Gordon, Graham Harrell, Kliff Kingsbury, or BJ Symons doesn't mean jack s*** in 2020 in this league. You've got to find a way to make it work here, and so far he hasn't done that.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

I'm not going to look it up to disagree, but the depth of those leagues doesn't sniff the sec. The nfl draft says your wrong every year. And the guys a step below that are better in our league. The sec is the best year in year out now question....

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I've said it in another thread that outside of Bama (because their recruiting and depth each year is leagues beyond any other team) it's really not that far apart. Saban has carried the SEC on his shoulders since he got here. Before him and minus him there isn't that wide of a gap.