2020 and 2021 may be rough

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Originally Posted by Coach34

And here we go again. I was the jackass because I kept saying our coach was JoVester in 2019. Boys- you bout to be disappointed in 2020. We are going to work hard for 6 wins. Will be happy if we get it.

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You also told everyone we were going to win 10 games in 2018. You don't know any more than anyone else whether or not Leach will come in and beat the teams that he has more talent than (Like Kentucky, Missouri, and NC State).

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Originally Posted by Jarius

You also told everyone we were going to win 10 games in 2018. You don't know any more than anyone else whether or not Leach will come in and beat the teams that he has more talent than (Like Kentucky, Missouri, and NC State).

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A good coach would have won 10 in 2018. So basically- if Leach struggles- we wont win more than 6 and could easily win less.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A good coach would have won 10 in 2018. So basically- if Leach struggles- we wont win more than 6 and could easily win less.

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What if Leach does well?

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

What if Leach does well?

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Great ... Fantastic. I just don't want all y'all to be screaming we hired an idiot if we stumble the 1st 5 games or so.

And I guarantee you will.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Great ... Fantastic. I just don't want all y'all to be screaming we hired an idiot if we stumble the 1st 5 games or so.

And I guarantee you will.

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Wrong, I have loved Mike Leach for over 15 years and will be proud to go down with the ship with him if that's what it comes to. There is no plausible scenario in which I would ever call him an idiot. Implausible scenarios, maybe, but still probably not.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Wrong, I have loved Mike Leach for over 15 years and will be proud to go down with the ship with him if that's what it comes to. There is no plausible scenario in which I would ever call him an idiot. Implausible scenarios, maybe, but still probably not.

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Lol ... I meant that more for Gun.

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Originally Posted by Walkerhill

Great question - by rough I mean first there may be some turbulence in the locker room, made apparent by player defections and media leaks. Leach was falsely accused of abuse in both places he has worked.

By rough I also mean that we will be reaching for 6 unless we coalesce better than the previous stops.

After Moorhead I think our nominal case is this past year, stretch for 6 with a bowl game loss. We will not surpass that until we get player development back on track and unify In the locker room around a winning culture.

TT won 6-7 the 3 years prior to Leach and then 7 both of his first 2 years. At Wazoo they had won 2 and 4 and then he won 3-6-3 over 3 years. A similar glide path for us looks like 6-7 wins next 2 years and then a jump.

Do not get me wrong. I would love to be pleasantly surprised. I am just saying, Cohen got us exactly what we asked for, a disciplinarian who wins. Give him time to build it back up even if it takes a couple years.

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Maybe I am a little over confident, but I see us winning all four OCC games, beating Kentucky, Missouri and Arkansas...Ole Miss is going to be a battle but winnable....So 6-8 wins should be expected. Honestly, I am still not sold on A&M or Auburn and they both come to Starkville.

Our schedule is cake. We have 8 games that are very winnable period. The SEC ain't what it once was. 2021 is definitely the year to strike but this year will be very instrumental in building confidence.

As for relying on jucos at DE. When was the last time we didn't do that? Sweat wasn't fully homegrown. Relying on jucos is a just still a reality of MSU.

I think the culture cleansing is being vastly overrated. Most of the "leaders" of the team are leaving for the draft. They'll learn to swim or sink real fast. It's not like Leach is stepping into a place where bad apples will rule the roost. Sad to say Willie Gay and Kylin Hill may end up being addition by subtraction. Easier for everyone to buy in when there is no star player pushing back. Shrader is the only one I've heard overtly be a bad apple that could be in a leadership role left. I have a feeling that can be handled. It's a lot different than having to clean up a bunch of lazy senior dictating the team. There's a very clean slate here and tons of potential on the roster. I'm excited and there's plenty of reason for optimism.

3 wins is a joke of a prediction. If we had the 2013 schedule that would make more sense. We have cupcake city outside the month of October.

you kids kill me.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

A good coach would have won 10 in 2018. So basically- if Leach struggles- we wont win more than 6 and could easily win less.

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Well Leach being a good coach is not debatable. He is an outstanding coach.

Willie signed with an agent but Kylin is staying put for another year isn't he?

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Originally Posted by dantheman4248

Our schedule is cake. We have 8 games that are very winnable period. The SEC ain't what it once was. 2021 is definitely the year to strike but this year will be very instrumental in building confidence.

As for relying on jucos at DE. When was the last time we didn't do that? Sweat wasn't fully homegrown. Relying on jucos is a just still a reality of MSU.

I think the culture cleansing is being vastly overrated. Most of the "leaders" of the team are leaving for the draft. They'll learn to swim or sink real fast. It's not like Leach is stepping into a place where bad apples will rule the roost. Sad to say Willie Gay and Kylin Hill may end up being addition by subtraction. Easier for everyone to buy in when there is no star player pushing back. Shrader is the only one I've heard overtly be a bad apple that could be in a leadership role left. I have a feeling that can be handled. It's a lot different than having to clean up a bunch of lazy senior dictating the team. There's a very clean slate here and tons of potential on the roster. I'm excited and there's plenty of reason for optimism.

3 wins is a joke of a prediction. If we had the 2013 schedule that would make more sense. We have cupcake city outside the month of October.

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You still predicting 11-1 for last year? Tommy still better than Dak? Just giving you a hard time LOL.

You performed a P&S analysis on next season yet? If so, what are your ground rules and assumptions for that analysis going into next year?

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Originally Posted by Jarius

Well Leach being a good coach is not debatable. He is an outstanding coach.

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With Leach going into 2018 10 would've been a given IMO.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

With Leach going into 2018 10 would've been a given IMO.

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Fitz and Leach may or may not have been an especially bad fit, but if Leach had gotten Minshew and coached us in 2018, we are minimum NY6 and probably CFP.

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Originally Posted by Quaoarsking

Fitz and Leach may or may not have been an especially bad fit, but if Leach had gotten Minshew and coached us in 2018, we are minimum NY6 and probably CFP.

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Unlike some ... I think Leach would've made Fitz much better. Hell, just having Aeris blocking for him in 2018 would've made him better. And Aeris would've been under Leach.

I rewatched the FL game 3 times and that game wasn't on Fitz. I did that cause I wanted to be sure how bad did Fitz really play. Rewound it in slow mo many times to see what happened on plays. Ky wasn't on Fitz either. But his confidence took a huge hit when fanbase got so down on him I think. Then the AU (passing), LSU, and Bama games were very subpar, especially LSU. I was pissed at Fitz after that game.

Leach doesn't inherit what SloMo inherited .... big difference here and I think some folks here are going to be a little disappointed

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Originally Posted by FISHDAWG

Leach doesn't inherit what SloMo inherited .... big difference here and I think some folks here are going to be a little disappointed

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On the defensive side yes, on the offensive side, I'm not sure there is any difference. WRs may be better actually

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

On the defensive side yes, on the offensive side, I'm not sure there is any difference. WRs may be better actually

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Huge difference on offensive side. Very experienced and much better offensive line in 18. Fifth-year senior quarterback. 1100 yard rusher that would also block. A team that had gone 9 - 4 the previous year with the same players. A team that had gone into hostile environments against outstanding teams such as AU and Georgia in 17. Just a huge difference in offenses between next year and that year.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Huge difference on offensive side. Very experienced and much better offensive line in 18. Fifth-year senior quarterback. 1100 yard rusher that would also block. A team that had gone 9 - 4 the previous year with the same players. A team that had gone into hostile environments against outstanding teams such as AU and Georgia in 17. Just a huge difference in offenses between next year and that year.

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Not sure there is any difference at QB than what we have now. We're actually better throwing now.

Kylin started in 2018, so you can't say that is different & he's better now than he was then

Osiris was the best WR in 2018 & he's back & older

I'll give you the OL, but Leach isn't going to be asking them to impose their will

I don't honestly see any meaningful difference in the offensive personnel although I'm sure you can throw out a bunch of stats as to how I'm wrong.

Put me down for 5-7 or 6-6. We will have to win some shootouts next year, considering the state of our defense. I hope the skills guys on the offense can figure this out quickly. We need an accurate QB for this to work, and I'm not sure we have one yet.