We just have to accept fact in recruiting

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

This is stupid.

Attitude is part of the development of a QB. Urban won a championship with Jones but it wasn't because of him. He was a third string QB if you recall. The offense was super simplified and run heavy and they relied on a stout defense.

Dak came in as a very talented and undervalued recruit with a strong work ethic, but Dak wasn't DAK until after a couple of years in the system.

You keep moving the goalposts with your arguments.

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No I don't. The internal drive and attitude was always there ... as documented in the multitudes of spotlight videos done by the NFL this season. As explained by his HC in High School, etc.

Not saying Dan didn't do a lot or doesn't develop QBs well. But I'm not putting him on a pedestal as some do solely on that. I'm not calling him a great head coach yet either.

Some want to give him ALL the credit 100% of the time and when anything goes wrong with the football team its always all the subordinates mistakes or we're MSU and can't compete so Dan is working miracles.

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Originally Posted by smootness

No. Cardale Jones can't play QB in the NFL because he isn't good at being a QB. He has a big arm and size and can move decently well for his size. That's literally it. If you think those things and 'attitude' are the only things you need to be an NFL QB...

He has no idea what he's doing, he can't read defenses, and his accuracy sucks. But other than that, he's got everything it takes**

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Now this might be true ... I haven't watched him in the pros but he might could read defenses better if he had the work ethic also. He seemed to do pretty decent in the CFP playoffs 2 years ago (1 of which was Bama) ... but nobody had much film on him either going into that.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

No I don't. The internal drive and attitude was always there ... as documented in the multitudes of spotlight videos done by the NFL this season. As explained by his HC in High School, etc.

Not saying Dan didn't do a lot or doesn't develop QBs well. But I'm not putting him on a pedestal as some do solely on that. I'm not calling him a great head coach yet either.

Some want to give him ALL the credit 100% of the time and when anything goes wrong with the football team its always all the subordinates mistakes or we're MSU and can't compete so Dan is working miracles.

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I didn't call Dan a great head coach. He has his flaws. I said he is a great offensive coach because he is. He's won a lot of big games as an offensive coordinator. He's developed great QBs. You decided to say that was because of Urban Meyer and not him. You discredit is development of QBs (Dak was Dak, the others were Meyer, etc.). As for your last sentence, that's a massive over-generalization that you are making to support your argument. A lot of folks on this and other boards call Dan out harshly. I've done it too at times. I think you see what you want to see and not what's the truth, because you have an agenda.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

He's gone 2-4 every year except '14. 7 years of no more than 2 wins in SEC W.

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And that 2-4 yearly record has included SEC East patsy Kentucky.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

I didn't call Dan a great head coach. He has his flaws. I said he is a great offensive coach because he is. He's won a lot of big games as an offensive coordinator. He's developed great QBs. You decided to say that was because of Urban Meyer and not him. You discredit is development of QBs (Dak was Dak, the others were Meyer, etc.). As for your last sentence, that's a massive over-generalization that you are making to support your argument. A lot of folks on this and other boards call Dan out harshly. I've done it too at times. I think you see what you want to see and not what's the truth, because you have an agenda.

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Well ... Urban has done that in several places ... before and after he hired Dan. Does he get any credit? So Dan gets all the credit when he was working for Urban. My agenda is to improve the 6-23 mark (or something like that) against Bama, LSU, AU, and TAM. And not lose the USA, a mediocre to poor BYU team, etc.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

And that 2-4 yearly record has included SEC East patsy Kentucky.

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*yawn* Another negative post from Roguedawg.

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Originally Posted by RougeDawg

And that 2-4 yearly record has included SEC East patsy Kentucky.

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2 - 4 is just against the west. With the luck of the draw (having played weak SEC E foes the last several years) we have usually been 4-4 in SEC.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Well ... Urban has done that in several places ... before and after he hired Dan. Does he get any credit? So Dan gets all the credit when he was working for Urban. My agenda is to improve the 6-23 mark (or something like that) against Bama, LSU, AU, and TAM. And not lose the USA, a mediocre to poor BYU team, etc.

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Does Dan get any credit?

I guess losing to Louisiana Tech really tarnished Nick Saban's resume, too.

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Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb

Does Dan get any credit?

I guess losing to Louisiana Tech really tarnished Nick Saban's resume, too.

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ULM....

I like that we bring in kids that aren't afraid of hard work. No room for the Kimchee, Big Softy, daddy drama Shea, etc... in a good program. It's going to take years and years to recover from being a consistent cellar dweller in the SEC. That's the bottom line. We don't have the budget to recruit with Florida, LSU, or Bama and we don't cheat like Ole Miss and Auburn. It is what it is. But there's no reason we can be a Wisconsin, TCU, Washington, Nebraska, etc.. and compete on the national stage. CDM did it with Dak and he'll have another chance with KT. We're not Bama. We'll never be Bama. But we can make a push once every few years and be a consistent bowl team.

People in the athletic department have said it for many years now, Va Tech is the model we're looking for. Consistently respectable, great atmosphere, hard working program, and we occasionally get a shot to make a push for a championship. Mullen's got us there already. We just have to finish one of our pushes to get over that hump.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

I like that we bring in kids that aren't afraid of hard work. No room for the Kimchee, Big Softy, daddy drama Shea, etc... in a good program. It's going to take years and years to recover from being a consistent cellar dweller in the SEC. That's the bottom line. We don't have the budget to recruit with Florida, LSU, or Bama and we don't cheat like Ole Miss and Auburn. It is what it is. But there's no reason we can be a Wisconsin, TCU, Washington, Nebraska, etc.. and compete on the national stage. CDM did it with Dak and he'll have another chance with KT. We're not Bama. We'll never be Bama. But we can make a push once every few years and be a consistent bowl team.

People in the athletic department have said it for many years now, Va Tech is the model we're looking for. Consistently respectable, great atmosphere, hard working program, and we occasionally get a shot to make a push for a championship. Mullen's got us there already. We just have to finish one of our pushes to get over that hump.

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Rational post is rational.

I bet the rest of our athletic programs wish that they could use that excuse. I guess they will all just continue to recruit lights and and compete for championships instead.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I bet the rest of our athletic programs wish that they could use that excuse. I guess they will all just continue to recruit lights and and compete for championships instead.

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Excellente' post. We don't get Kys talent in basketball and never willl but ... we showed up with a little less talent and smacked them in the mouth the other night.

Ooohhh ... but football's different ****

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I bet the rest of our athletic programs wish that they could use that excuse. I guess they will all just continue to recruit lights and and compete for championships instead.

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People keep trying to equate our baseball and basketball programs with football, and they're not the same.

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Originally Posted by smootness

People keep trying to equate our baseball and basketball programs with football, and they're not the same.

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I'm not just comparing them. I'm comparing our entire athletic department. Football is the only one where "the city of Starkville" is an issue. Facilities are an issue. Budget is an issue. None of the other sports have this issue. At some point you just have to look at Dan Mullen and say he is what he is. It's not our budget's fault that we have an epic recruiting meltdown on a yearly basis. It's Mullen's fault. We can and should recruit better in football than we do. I don't think anyone is asking for us to stock pile 5 stars like Alabama either. I'm also not advocating to get rid of Mullen. It's just an obvious observation that some people want to stick their head in the sand about.

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

If Urban was in Starkville he'd be finishing 2nd or 3rd at the worst every year in the west. That's a great coach. Finishing 4 - 6 against the mediocre coaching in the west ain't a great coach. He has done nothing as a head coach to be considered great. Urban, Saban, Harbaugh ... they've gone to schools that historically don't win a lot and turned them into winners and conference champs. That's great.

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Yeah! Why can't Mississippi State have one of the 3 best coaches in college football?

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Originally Posted by I seen it dawg

Sorry but Mullen is a great QB coach and keeper of a program. Keeps discipline in line and guys graduating. Everything else he's just meh. Just a guy.

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He's a little bit more than that. If you want to compare him to Saban, Meyer, Harbough, etc., yes, he's just meh. But he's still at the top of the rest of the coaching ranks. Yes, he's not very good at recruiting, but overall, he's only meh if you compare him to the top four or five coaches in the country.

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Originally Posted by smootness

People keep trying to equate our baseball and basketball programs with football, and they're not the same.

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That's also a good point.

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Originally Posted by MedDawg

Yeah! Why can't Mississippi State have one of the 3 best coaches in college football?

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Oh we will as soon as we hire HC Kyle Whittingham and C34 as OL coach. We will never lose to Bama or LSU and we will always have top 10 recruiting classes then!!

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Originally Posted by Jarius

I'm not just comparing them. I'm comparing our entire athletic department. Football is the only one where "the city of Starkville" is an issue. Facilities are an issue. Budget is an issue. None of the other sports have this issue. At some point you just have to look at Dan Mullen and say he is what he is. It's not our budget's fault that we have an epic recruiting meltdown on a yearly basis. It's Mullen's fault. We can and should recruit better in football than we do. I don't think anyone is asking for us to stock pile 5 stars like Alabama either. I'm also not advocating to get rid of Mullen. It's just an obvious observation that some people want to stick their head in the sand about.

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We don't have an epic recruiting meltdown on a yearly basis. That is fan-driven. No, we don't recruit great in football. That's different from 'epic meltdown'.

And I don't think it has all that much to do with Starkville, and I don't think really anybody is saying that. It primarily has to do with our program history, our resource disadvantage in the SEC, our track record in producing consistent NFL talent, and our recruiting style.

The resource disadvantage is not as important in other sports because it doesn't exist to the same degree in other sports. Football is far and away the largest budget, and that is where the disparity is greatest.