Sunday Morning QB- We Won Edition

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Every year we hear how vanilla we are and we're going to ramp it up against the SEC and then we see the same BS game plan every week. Fire the DC, rinse, lather, repeat.

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I don't know where you are getting this from. Do you think we played poor defense the first 54 minutes against LSU last year, or against Arkansas, or against Bama with the exception of our safeties getting completely flat-out burnt, or Auburn, or Texas A&M? Our absolute shitty games were against mostly inferior opponents outside of Ole Miss and Georgia Tech but apparently our DC had his foot in Florida already. Every DC gameplans for each opponent or else we wouldn't need a scout team.

The difference in our safeties this year versus last is that I didn't see either one of them get beat on a streak up the sideline or a deep post. They got beat underneath in zones that were in front of them because that is the scheme we were playing against USM until they crossed over into our 40yd line or so. There wasn't a magical wall in our redzone, we just went to a less forgiving defensive scheme (that could have possibly put the safeties in those deep 1on1 matchups that gave up so many tds last year) to keep them from scoring.

You may turn out to be right and they get torched every game they play in but it is far too early to assume that from that one game last night. It is completely laughable though that 2 true freshman with 4 weeks of experience on the team wouldn't be completely lost schematically and only playing off instincts. I guess if that is the case we should throw out all stops to get all 4 stars and above this February and replace the entire starting lineup because they are "more talented".

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Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg

As for the last two points:

12. Graves certainly has a stronger leg than Sobes. We'll have to see if he can handle the pressure. I liked what I saw last night with him.

13. I don't think there is an attitude problem, but potentially a lack of intensity problem. That being said, there is no better cure than 63,000 maroon fans & a hostile environment next Saturday night. If you think about the Ole Miss game, GT game, & USM, they were all on the road in less than hyped atmospheres. Every team has to find it's own identity & I think ours finds their next Saturday night. We haven't played a big home game in a long time. Really since Arkansas last season

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Man, if you can't get hyped for your biggest rival (ole miss last year) then what the hell can you get hyped for?!

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

It's not about you not having an opinion because you don't have coaching sources it's questioning how can you possibly make any type of an informed opinion without seeing them play at this level. Especially the freshman you are touting. We play freshman and at times play freshman significant minutes since Dan has been here. Do some programs play freshman more? Sure but some of that has to do with the raw product we bring in more so than other programs. Some of that does have to do with what is required for playing time. I hate to bring this up again but is almost the same issue brought up about Evans and James when they came in. A segment of the fan base kept hammering for not playing these talented players. And those fans were ignorant then and dead wrong. Saban plays freshman but he is also getting the cream of the polished crop as well. But when he had the #1 rated LB, Foster, and needed LB help he didn't play him significantly because he hadn't gotten it yet. The player had talent and talent over other guys but he sucked as a player until he grasped more things. Being talented and being a football player are different things. And most have been saying that even by the end of the year Peters or McLaurin or both very well may be playing significant minutes. Heck maybe we are saving them for LSU (doubt that seriously) but don't get upset when people call you out on an uninformed opinion when after 6 years Mullen's track record has proved that he is actually more correct that what the fans think about personnel.

I know you have hit on Cohen some but for a fair perspective from others, if you were nearly as critical of Cohen as you are of Mullen, then you very well be ready to search for a new coach. The rope you give Cohen is a good bit longer than you do for Mullen.

As far as Howland, first with his accomplishments if for what ever reason he comes out and Newman doesn't play I'll support that decision until proven wrong. But really basketball and football is totally different especially in personnel and being ready to play at this level much sooner. Not to mention the game itself can lead to playing a guy a lot on pure talent even if their basketball IQ is low. Safety, LB and OL don't necessarily lend themselves to just being able to play on pure talent. Corner, RB, WR are much easier positions that freshman can come in and be impactful.

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Ummm...Chris Jones as a freshman was second on the team in sacks, led the team in QB hurries, and tied for the team lead in tackles for loss. So, how were the fans "ignorant and plain wrong" on him? And again he was one of the ones I was touting.

As far as the players that no one believes me about- I think once they actually get some extended playing time people will see what I am talking about since that's apparently the criteria set forth.

As far as Cohen and Mullen- I haven't called for Mullen to be gone since we were 4-6 in 2013. And Cohen better straighten up himself or he will be in hot water if we play like we did last year.

If Newman doesn't play a lot in the first game I guarantee you most people will question Howland- and what I'm saying is not really any different than what most fans do with recruits.

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Originally Posted by sandwolf

You are missing the point. It really doesn't matter how you saw them play.......whether it was in person or on HUDL, it was high school football. And when you openly admit that you have never seen either of them play against SEC competition, yet claim that they are the best safeties on the team, people are going to call you on that. And when you then get all defensive about people pointing out the fact that you have absolutely no basis for your argument, people are going to call you a ****ing idiot.

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That's apparent. And I expect you to tell that to the next poster that a recruit has a chance to play right away that to.

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Originally Posted by aerodawg

I don't know where you are getting this from. Do you think we played poor defense the first 54 minutes against LSU last year, or against Arkansas, or against Bama with the exception of our safeties getting completely flat-out burnt, or Auburn, or Texas A&M? Our absolute shitty games were against mostly inferior opponents outside of Ole Miss and Georgia Tech but apparently our DC had his foot in Florida already. Every DC gameplans for each opponent or else we wouldn't need a scout team.

The difference in our safeties this year versus last is that I didn't see either one of them get beat on a streak up the sideline or a deep post. They got beat underneath in zones that were in front of them because that is the scheme we were playing against USM until they crossed over into our 40yd line or so. There wasn't a magical wall in our redzone, we just went to a less forgiving defensive scheme (that could have possibly put the safeties in those deep 1on1 matchups that gave up so many tds last year) to keep them from scoring.

You may turn out to be right and they get torched every game they play in but it is far too early to assume that from that one game last night. It is completely laughable though that 2 true freshman with 4 weeks of experience on the team wouldn't be completely lost schematically and only playing off instincts. I guess if that is the case we should throw out all stops to get all 4 stars and above this February and replace the entire starting lineup because they are "more talented".

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Well otherwise everything was great.**

Yes, at MSU it's totally inconceivable that true freshmen would be able to pick up our schemes. I don't know how they do it at other schools. I'm not sure how Justin Johnson did it for us this Saturday either.

And AGAIN- Bear 2-3 stars, Jones was a 3 star when I was high on him before he blew up. Jenkins was a 2 star, Gray wasn't even rated by scout out of HS, McLaurin was a four star by 247 and Peters was a 4-5 star. Only a few of the guys I am touting were really rated that high by the recruiting services. I trust Dan WAY more than the recruiting services. And as you see how much I trust in Dan- so that should give you an idea of what I think about the recruiting sites evaluations.

Wait wait wait, did Todd seriously compare himself to an MLB scout? Hahaha that's one of the most ignorant and arrogant statements I've ever heard. You are a typical college sports fan that thinks you know more than all the coaches, and in reality it makes you look like anew idiot. Not everything you have said is dumb, but a lot of it is. Oh and Chris Jones didn't change as a player from a 3 to a 5 star. He just got really evaluated by recruiting site people. You in no way shape or form were the only person talking him up. Every state fan was excited about him.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

Was disappointed by the secondary...if last nite was a preview of the year in that area then we will lose at least 4 games.

Dak was off but he wasn't helped out any...Ross and bear both dropped passes that woulda made everything look better, including the score.

D line is filthy.

I also woulda like to have seen the younger RBs get some more touches.

Bottom line: win next week and no one cares one bit about how last nite looked.

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Yall better get used to this with Manny. he keeps outside leverage on the WRs when bringing pressure. He gives up the slant. Everyone knows this. He waits for them to miss a throw, drop a pass, for us to bat a ball, get a sack, etc... On 1st or 2nd down and then tighten up on 3rd. 3rd down conversions and red zone defense will determine how good we are this season. if you're worried about passing yards, you're looking at the wrong stats. It's a by-product of how manny calls his D. It's very different than most philosophies.

Either way, we had 2 pics and got in the backfield a lot. minimized their rushing game despite that long run, and held them to only a few scores. Their QB was impressive in my opinion. I think they're going to do well in CUSA with him running the offense. He took what we gave them and made the right read all night long.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

Wait wait wait, did Todd seriously compare himself to an MLB scout? Hahaha that's one of the most ignorant and arrogant statements I've ever heard. You are a typical college sports fan that thinks you know more than all the coaches, and in reality it makes you look like anew idiot. Not everything you have said is dumb, but a lot of it is. Oh and Chris Jones didn't change as a player from a 3 to a 5 star. He just got really evaluated by recruiting site people. You in no way shape or form were the only person talking him up. Every state fan was excited about him.

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In all fairness, he was a 2-star when he committed in the summer and people were pissed "we took another 2-star" so early. I remember having to try calm the masses on 247 by telling them he was an absolute beast of a freak. No one knew him. Obviously he didn't progress talent wise from a 2 to a 5, he justi Balky got evaluated like you said... But people did overreact when we accepted his commitment.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

oh hell yeah they could. Tony Conner played more like an OLB his freshman season

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Yep. He played a roving safety that matched up with inside routes and blitzed. It was a utility role that featured his elite talent without having him be a FS or call defenses or check coverages. That was Cody Prewitt.

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Originally Posted by shoeless joe

But did it keep us from being #1 in the polls and in the playoff rankings? Who gives a crap what some idiot talking heads have to say. Where it mattered we were at the top, and if we beat LSU, auburn, and A&M again we'll be there again. However, some things need to be fixed for us to do those things.

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Oh I get it. Don't worry. I was commenting that there will be 17ers thay won't let it go even if we're 12-0 headed into ATL. They'll still bring up how we struggled versus USM as they predict us to lose each week of that 12 win run. When we stomp LSU their going to bring up the fact that it was LSU first game if season. They're going to bring it up each week and each college gameday. They're going to put an asterisk by the whole season as it goes along because they'll be implying thay LSU IS the real champion but didn't get a fair shake in our game. I was complaining that there are media folks that hate us that much. Seriously. Didn't you love Brando taking USM side on every questionable call? Didn't you love his implying that USM was our real rivalry and remarking what a shame it was to see so many rivals no longer playing because of all the conference expansion? Of course it's USM because Ole Miss isn't our real rival. Their real rival is LSU. He is, of course, one of those national media types that has ties to the Black Bears that a lot of people don't know about. So of course our rival is USM.

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Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

Wait, you mean Todd is posting stupid shit that he has no clue about? Damn, that's a first.

Unless I'm proven wrong, I've got to think we were sandbagging last night. We've heard way too much about some of the young guys to believe that Deandre Ward, Deontay Evans, etc. are going to be playing significant snaps against an LSU. Either we've been grossly misled about who's performing and our depth chart or we were keeping a bunch of shells in our pocket for next Saturday. I know which one I'm choosing to believe.

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I would HATE to think that we kept some of our most talented players on the sideline as a ruse as opposed to letting them play their first live action college snaps against a manageable opponent. Then, we are going to throw them into the fire vs. LSU? Dont think that's likely.

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Originally Posted by PMDawg

I would HATE to think that we kept some of our most talented players on the sideline as a ruse as opposed to letting them play their first live action college snaps against a manageable opponent. Then, we are going to throw them into the fire vs. LSU? Dont think that's likely.

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The point is so obvious it zoomed right over their heads.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

That's not what I've been saying about the issues....that's what I've been saying about your insisting that we should start freshmen you've never seen play before and have no idea if they can get the job done yet.

As for the issues, I think we were playing vanilla and will look better vs LSU. If not, I'll be pissed. I wasn't thrilled with our performance, but I'm going to at least wait and withhold judgment until we lose or play bad against a team that matters.

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Bingo. If we play the same scheme against LSU, I'll lead the charge to have Manny fired. But I'd bet the farm we see a different looking D on Saturday night.

No way we play the same way vs Pro-I LSU- you cant

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Well otherwise everything was great.**

Yes, at MSU it's totally inconceivable that true freshmen would be able to pick up our schemes. I don't know how they do it at other schools. I'm not sure how Justin Johnson did it for us this Saturday either.

And AGAIN- Bear 2-3 stars, Jones was a 3 star when I was high on him before he blew up. Jenkins was a 2 star, Gray wasn't even rated by scout out of HS, McLaurin was a four star by 247 and Peters was a 4-5 star. Only a few of the guys I am touting were really rated that high by the recruiting services. I trust Dan WAY more than the recruiting services. And as you see how much I trust in Dan- so that should give you an idea of what I think about the recruiting sites evaluations.

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Do you not know the difference between being schematically good and being talented? My point was that our scheme was great against Alabama last year, but our safeties sucked too bad to not get burnt in 1 on 1's. You can put an NFL defense on the field but if they run prevent defense, USM can rack up some yards.

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Originally Posted by aerodawg

Do you not know the difference between being schematically good and being talented?

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No. He doesnt.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Ummm...Chris Jones as a freshman was second on the team in sacks, led the team in QB hurries, and tied for the team lead in tackles for loss. So, how were the fans "ignorant and plain wrong" on him? And again he was one of the ones I was touting.

As far as the players that no one believes me about- I think once they actually get some extended playing time people will see what I am talking about since that's apparently the criteria set forth.

As far as Cohen and Mullen- I haven't called for Mullen to be gone since we were 4-6 in 2013. And Cohen better straighten up himself or he will be in hot water if we play like we did last year.

If Newman doesn't play a lot in the first game I guarantee you most people will question Howland- and what I'm saying is not really any different than what most fans do with recruits.

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Your reading comprehension sucked that time. How did you get Chris Jones out of that when I said Evans and James? The fans were dead wrong on the Evans and James situation. Chris wasn't even mentioned. So he didn't start but he played significant minutes and the more he LEARNED of the defense the more he played. Cox, Boyd, Bumphis all came in and started. Wilson and Ross both came in as Freshman and played significant minutes. In this conversation, the young guys you are touting for this year are Peters and McLaurin. Let's stay with who you are touting this year so we don't have to research the last 5 years. Keep it simple.

Again, the gist of you getting called out is not you wanting to see the young guys play its you being so absolute that they are better WITHOUT having any real information to base it on. Just because you are throwing crap against the wall won't make you some great evaluation of talent. Especially with those two safety's. And once more most are agreeing that this very well may happen during the year but you cannot possibly know they are better at this point of time. There is no way and instead of getting defensive think about what you are saying.

Smith. That was criminal. If Malike doesn't start and play more than anyone this year, we should fire Howland.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Absolutely remember on Jones. I thought he should have played more and started though.

Robinson was definitely an enigma. Do you play the guy who maybe doesn't have the best work ethic but produces more over the guy who works hard and isn't as productive? I think the solution would have been to use Perkins differently and not as much between the tackles and more on screens and things like that.

And for the billionth time- I'm just giving my opinion. I'm not saying I'm a better coach than Dan. I definitely have a strong opinion on it. All I want to see us do is play the best people and maybe give others a fair chance to perform that maybe haven't yet- which would settle this debate once and for all. As it is right now- we definitely have some holes and if I was Dan and my livelihood was depending on it, I would definitely try to find a solution ASAP. One way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

That's apparent. And I expect you to tell that to the next poster that a recruit has a chance to play right away that to.

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Jesus, saying that a recruit has a chance to play right away based on his high school film is not the same as declaring him the best player on the team based off of that film....especially when said player is sitting on the bench.

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Originally Posted by cheewgumm

Smith. That was criminal. If Malike doesn't start and play more than anyone this year, we should fire Howland.

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Well I probably should have it clearer that the Howland and Newman deal was a little tongue and cheek. You have to admit that the two sports are not comparable at all when it comes to playing highly rated freshman. Even with a low basketball IQ (not that Newman is by any means) can be effective off of pure talent. Certain positions on the football field can lead to that as well but not necessarily two Safety's. In fact I can't think of any team looking to really make a run opt to go with two freshman safety's at the same time. You are asking for major problems early in the year that way. But between the two Howland and his accomplishments and ability as a coach with his track record, I will give him some lead way to at least make the case if he doesn't play a certain player. Not by any reason do I think this will remotely happen. I'm just saying he has earned the right to make that decision until we have evidence otherwise.

The Jones and Smith deal last year, they did play a good bit together but overall I think some of that was a byproduct of the 1A/1B stuff. Spreading the talent between two DL last year to make each productive to a degree. Not debating whether we should have or not last year, it's over, but can see what they were doing with that.