MSU is STILL Not Serious About Football

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's a lot deeper than that. He allowed the boosters to get way too involved and allowed the wrong people to have too much influence in the program. MSU can say those people are in check now- and I believe that. But bringing Arnett back makes us vulnerable to that happening again. I'm talking about people who tried to get Leach fired before he took care of it. Same thing could potentially happen to Lebby which is why he was really dumb to bring him back. The connection may be in check- but there is the possibility it could be open again at some point.

And then when they got control and did things their way and none of it worked they blamed everyone else but themselves.

So yeah, I don't want anyone associated with that group anywhere near MSU football.

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Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.

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I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

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No, I'm saying the part about Arnett "letting that happen again" as a defensive coordinator isn't true.

But even the other stuff isn't THE reason we're where we're at. As is the case with pretty much anything, several things can be true at once. Arnett wasn't ready to be a HC. He shouldn't have completely shifted the offense in year 1. We probably had some boosters out of line. But Leach deserves some blame too. His recruiting was quite abysmal.

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

No, I'm saying the part about Arnett "letting that happen again" as a defensive coordinator isn't true.

But even the other stuff isn't THE reason we're where we're at. As is the case with pretty much anything, several things can be true at once. Arnett wasn't ready to be a HC. He shouldn't have completely shifted the offense in year 1. We probably had some boosters out of line. But Leach deserves some blame too. His recruiting was quite abysmal.

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Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

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This is the correct answer.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

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All that is true. Arnett's biggest downfall though was he stepped out of his skin and tried to be someone he's not. The players saw that he wasn't the same guy and they didn't believe in what he was doing. No belief leads to poor team chemistry and low execution success. Even the change in offense could have been overcome and been better had he stayed true to who he was as a person and coach. Arnett the DC would not have done some of things he did as a HC. Now if that was self inflicted or bad advice or both, I don't know the extent of all of that.

Look at our history of hiring assistants to be HC in our decades-long on-the-job training program, no matter who our incompetent "Powers to Be" were. The only successes in my 60 plus years of fandom have been Bob Tyler and Dan Mullen and yes, I count JoMo in the failure category. We get what we ask for and refuse to pay for. Those who repeat the failures of past history are doomed to repeat them or so they say.

To those of you who think morale is ok, you must not have bought season tickets for about 59 consecutive years, or for many years at all, as my long-suffering, but true maroon family just did last month. I know a lot of State fans in NE MS and don't know a single fan who has any hope for 2026 or in over his head Lebby, again.

I dare say there are many active and retired football coaches on this board, and most of y'all could have gone 7-18 and 1-15 in the last two years, found a decent LT in the portal, and developed players other than WR's. Y'all could probably have been just as successful for far less than $4 million per year. We have made many unprepared assistants millionaires and Lebby is continuing our poor trend.

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

Look at our history of hiring assistants to be HC in our decades-long on-the-job training program, no matter who our incompetent "Powers to Be" were. The only successes in my 60 plus years of fandom have been Bob Tyler and Dan Mullen and yes, I count JoMo in the failure category. We get what we ask for and refuse to pay for. Those who repeat the failures of past history are doomed to repeat them or so they say.

To those of you who think morale is ok, have not bought season tickets for about 59 consecutive years, as my long-suffering, but true maroon family just did last month. Iknow a lot of State fans in NE MS and don't know a single fan who has any hope for 2026 or in over his head Lebby, again.

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Alot of times a coordinator is our best option to hire. It's not being cheap. Not many current HC's will not take our job. We had a guy turn us down to go to Houston last hiring cycle. Now we could get a Jimbo or some other out of work HC. Hiring Leach was an abnormality as he wanted to closer to the Keys and see what he could do against SEC defenses before it was over. But hiring him ended up turning into a program killer as we are living and trying to get out of.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Alot of times a coordinator is our best option to hire. It's not being cheap. Not many current HC's will not take our job. We had a guy turn us down to go to Houston last hiring cycle. Now we could get a Jimbo or some other out of work HC. Hiring Leach was an abnormality as he wanted to closer to the Keys and see what he could do against SEC defenses before it was over. But hiring him ended up turning into a program killer as we are living and trying to get out of.

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As I said, this has been going on for decades. Look at Shira's record, and heck, we promoted him to AD after one of the worst winning % in State history. Felker, Croom, Arnett, and even before and the list goes on.

You and I don't agree on all opinions, but no doubt in my mind you could go 7-18 and 1-15 and maybe look more competent doing it. Bet you know where a couple of LT prospects were that had eligibility left also.

Monday morning QB, but we might be much more successful with an experienced, winning HC from a lower division than all these on-the-job training assistants in my lifetime. Saw my first game at age 8 in person at Scott Field in 1963, 10-10 against OM. Not many bright spots, except under Jackie and Leach, both former HCs.

As I said, Tyler and Mullen were exceptions to our awful hiring practices no matter who has been in charge. Rant over, and I will again sit until the end of every home game in 2026 as years pass.

It will all come out in the wash this Fall. There still a chance to get another lineman this summer

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Originally Posted by KOdawg1

Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.

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Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve

I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

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Does this mean I get 2000 dollars?**

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Speaking of being a bitch- I just saw that Arnett lost one of the top DT in the state from Choctaw County to Ole Miss.

Let me guess- it's Dave Emerick's fault.**

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That commitment won't stick as of now, He is chasing Texas/Texas A&M type payday. Highly doubt he stays in state.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

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Your point is valid. But Cristobal, Saban, and Leach were absolutely not retreads. And Spurrier does not really fit either.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Your point is valid. But Cristobal, Saban, and Leach were absolutely not retreads. And Spurrier does not really fit either.

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Cristobal got fired at FIU and had to be an asst for 5 years before getting another HC job.
Saban was a loser NFL coach that jumped at Bama
Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons. Only 2 times the last 11. Good coach but was never wanted at a top notch program

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

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Forgot one of biggest retreads - Coach O at LSU.

It absolutely does work out a good bit.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

It's a lot deeper than that. He allowed the boosters to get way too involved and allowed the wrong people to have too much influence in the program. MSU can say those people are in check now- and I believe that. But bringing Arnett back makes us vulnerable to that happening again. I'm talking about people who tried to get Leach fired before he took care of it. Same thing could potentially happen to Lebby which is why he was really dumb to bring him back. The connection may be in check- but there is the possibility it could be open again at some point.

And then when they got control and did things their way and none of it worked they blamed everyone else but themselves.

So yeah, I don't want anyone associated with that group anywhere near MSU football.

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You believe everything you read. Come on Todd.

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Originally Posted by R2Dawg

Forgot one of biggest retreads - Coach O at LSU.

It absolutely does work out a good bit.

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good catch

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

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Retreads hit at about the same rate they miss. For every Lane Kiffin and David Cutcliffe there's a Kevin Sumlin and Tom Herman. You honestly just have to be desperate and willing enough to take the chance with a retread. You have to understand that the chances you crash and burn are equal to the chances you succeed at a high level. Ole Miss was desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Kiffin. We were desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Jackie. Both of those risks were wildly successful. Conversely, Auburn was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Freeze. Kansas was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Les Miles. Both of those were unmitigated disasters.

Where we getting another LT from this summer?

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Originally Posted by Pancho

Where we getting another LT from this summer?

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One option is some of the guys still left in the portal. The other option is a kid just un-enrolls at one school and enrolls at another. He doesn't have to use the portal for that.