I'm never going to forget or forgive the feeling of watching Toledo annihilate us. That never should have happened. We can't tell ourselves it was just a fluke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I'm never going to forget or forgive the feeling of watching Toledo annihilate us. That never should have happened. We can't tell ourselves it was just a fluke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We're talking about MSU fans who remember baseball losses to Mississippi College in 1985 here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The numbers are out there to see if there was improvement. All you gotta do is go the the NCAA.org system and look it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Shouldn't have lost to South Alabama either in 2016. Shouldn't have lost to Maine. Shouldn't have lost to Troy and ULM under Jackie or La Tech. Thing is Saban lost to ULM in year one too. Ole Miss lost to Jacksonville State a year after they went to the Cotton Bowl in 2010. Texas A&M lost to App State and Kevin Barbay. Shit happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
At this same point in their careers Dan Mullen had two top 25 wins. Lebby has one. And Lebby if beats a top 25 team next year he will equal Dan in top 25 wins after three seasons after MSU. He's already halfway there.
Oh hell no that's not happening from him. He's hanging his hat on "But.....but....Toledo!"Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Hell- I could go to a preschool and every kid there would tell me that 5 is better than 2.
Every single example you listed was a close fluky game. Toledo humiliated is. It wasn't a "Shit happens" game like the rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Arizona State is unlikely to receive a single vote in the final polls. I have been consistent for years that "ranking at the time" means nothing and only the final poll matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
It's weird because Arkansas beat us by 33 points. In no universe were we beating them in 2024. They could have hung 70 on us had they wanted to. It's a nonsensical hypothetical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
It's undeniable that we improved from 2024 to 2025. That is universally agreed to by all the pundits.
Doesn't mean 2025 was a success or even acceptable. But we were improved objectively.
I don't deny that we're "better" and have posted facts myself many times that support this notion. What I've said is that I don't put much value in comparing against a year that was really awful where Lebby was the coach, and apparently "doesn't count" anyway. Of course we were better in 2025 than 2024 - how could we not have been? So what?Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
I just picked a random game to give us another hypothetical win. Change it to Florida or Ole Miss if you want. If Lebby was 4-8 (1-7) in 2024, I'd feel a lot better about him now, even though the "he improved us by 3 games over his own record in 2024" argument wouldn't be there anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Well yea. Because if lebby went 4-8 with the 2024 roster he should have been coach of the year. Thats how bad we were in 2024. That he went from that to 5-7 in year 2 was improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Our game absolutely was shit happens. And none of those losses should have happened to any of those teams. Considering that Lebby hasn't even come close to losing another G5 game I think I can make a pretty good case that was a fluke as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
You can use the final poll if you want to- it doesn't change anything in this case.
Even in your hypotheticals we still improved this year. That should tell you something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Our offense was better than 2 SEC teams that reached the playoffs. Is that better for you? In fact our scoring offense is better than a playoff team... btw... from the SEC too. In fact, our scoring offense was better than 8 other SEC teams this year. 2 of those 8 made the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Last year only 3 SEC teams were ranked below us in total offense. We were only better than 2 other SEC teams in scoring offense last year.
I never questioned Lebby's aptitude at running at an offense. I question his aptitude at running an SEC football program.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Running a program means making changes when needed. He's shown every year to make needed changes. Cody Kennedy .. gone after 1 year. etc. Now he has gone out and got a known DC. And here's something you need to consider. Those 2 SEC teams that made to playoffs with lesser offenses did so because of defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
OU is one of those teams. They only won as much because their defense is ranked 7th.
Bama is the other. That makes me smile that our offense is ranked higher and our scoring offense is too. But, Like OU.... Bama had a top defense.... ranked 13th.
Side Note... Ole Miss had the 41st ranked defense. Arnett should have us top 50 in year 1. Any improvement on offense and we are going to hurt some dreams next year.
Ironically enough Arnett/Brock's last year in 2023 that MSU wants rightfully redacted from our memories we finished guess what in total defense? 41st! **** you Kevin Barbay.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
The other years under Arnett as DC- 35th, 31, and 51. If we can replicate ANY of those seasons we should improve a lot. When Arnett took over last we were 73rd in 2019 for context. We were 107th this year. So, 41 seems like it may be a big jump for us realistically. 60 seems very realistic if not somewhat pessimistic though.
He went for it on 4th down on our own 36 when we were completely in control of the game and their offense could not do anything. If we just punt the ball, they dont have enough time to come back. I notice how you conveniently left the Florida game out too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Actually teams are not the same from one game to the next. ASU had a ton of injuries that made them a shell of themselves. You cannot say rankings don't matter until the end of the season for a game that happened in the early part of the year when they were full strength.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Arizona State's 2025 season was significantly impacted by injuries, with key players like QB Sam Leavitt, WR Jordyn Tyson, DB Xavion Alford, OL Ben Coleman, and LB Zyrus Fiaseu missing significant time or the entire season, creating major holes in the offense, defense, and offensive line.
I think that injuries are a fair point to raise with the "end of season rankings only" argument, but I still don't think ranking at the time is a good way to evaluate seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rock
For example, should 2020 Arkansas get credit for beating a ranked team (us), but nobody else who beat us get that credit? Just because they had a fluke in the order of their schedule?
In our favor, Auburn happened not to be ranked on the day we beat them in 2007, but they finished #15, and I count that as a ranked win for us.
And what did all of the players that improved have in common? They were all highly valued sec caliber players....Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
We didn't have the talent nor the depth to consistently win and consistently improve.
Fluff wasn't the same after he missed a couple games. Our OL and DL were gassed by the end of the season. We lost arguably our only sec talent on the DL by week 4.
Our OL was absolutely atrocious most of the season.
Y'all may be right on lebby, but with the talent level we had up front he had to be perfect he didn't have any cushion for making boneheaded coaching decisions whereas kiffin and others got bailed out multiple times this year by the talent on their roster.
All coaches make dumb decisions heck, Kirby smart pissed the second half of the sugar bowl away and he's one of the best in the business.
Lebby may not be the guy. I can assure you the next guy won't be the guy either if we don't get better at buying in and fundraising the nil to compete.
Wake forest outspent us in NIL last year and they beat us shocker. We are dead last in NIL in the sec even behind Kentucky and y'all are surprised we have won one sec game in two years. I don't understand how some of y'all can't see there is a direct correlation in spending and winning.