Sunday Morning Thoughts-Hello Darkness My Old Friend

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Originally Posted by BB30

Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

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B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

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Originally Posted by basedog

Two things that helps, 1) we are in the Sec which gives us some advantage with the money aspect, yes we have a poor athletic budget but compared to most schools in the country we are in top 40 for sure maybe higher. 2) Hire a decent HC for football who can recruit and bring excitement, and it helps big time. Hey Ky hired Mark Stoops and he may be their best HC since they Hired Bear Bryant back in the 50's.

Yes we are in awful shape with leadership, but a couple decent hires can change the culture. No doubt I have lost football interest, but I graduated in 1973 and far more things to do than fret over Msu football now days. Fact is I'm headed to deer camp Friday Morning. Happy Turkey Day and Hail State Always!!!

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How is 2-10 an improved year with any staff no matter limited talent, along with poor coaching which has also played a big part in this debacle? There seems to be several coaches/ex-coaches on this board that could have taken the millions and put together a better staff and could have beaten E KY and UMASS! We have to break the cycle of bad hires and a revolving door on HC, but will Lebby/Hutz be another Croom/Woody after next year?

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Originally Posted by Goldendawg

How is 2-10 an improved year with any staff no matter limited talent, along with poor coaching which has also played a big part in this debacle? There seems to be several coaches/ex-coaches on this board that could have taken the millions and put together a better staff and could have beaten E KY and UMASS! We have to break the cycle of bad hires and a revolving door on HC, but will Lebby/Hutz be another Croom/Woody after next year?

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Like I stated hiring the right guy is important.

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Originally Posted by RockyDog

B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

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Hey we did change one thing this year as team entrance music was Dire Straits, "Money for Nothing"! Was a sadly appropriate, but tone deaf decision. You can't make this stuff up. We have poor decisions being made on and off the field. No home SEC victories in two years and if we lose tomorrow, first season without an SEC win since 2002. I see no foundation being built except improved WR room and the "Showtime" video needs to be retired until we can compete and dare I say win a few games. We are the "Washington Generals" of the SEC at this point. Even JOMO beat Toledo last night!

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Originally Posted by Jarius

The fact that we are matching baseball upgrades with football money wise is a huge issue. You know why we are spending football NIL poorly? Because we are cheap as hell and hiring coaches that can?t attract decent football players. You know why that is? Because we focus on a half funded club sport more than we should and don?t have the money to go all in on the sport that everyone else cares about.

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Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/...-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/g...n-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

This is the problem right here. You consider consistent success going to bowl games in football and going to the World Series in baseball. No one else in this league considers that a success. Our in state rival is winning 9.5 games a year under their current coaching staff and now have the worst baseball program in the conference. Those are the sacrifices you make if you want to be a big boy program. You don?t go cheap in the sport that matters to make sure baseball can compete financially. The expectations should have been flipped for those 2 sports 50 years ago. No, I?m not ok winning 7 games a year in football and propping up baseball. The fact that you are is the problem. Obviously, we can?t kill baseball. We are at the minimum number of sports at the school. It should be slashed with funding and the baseball lovers should be required to carry it financially though.

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I didn't say that we were hitting our ceiling with any of those coaches. I said we had success with those coaches. What Ole Miss has accomplished with Kiffin and their 15-20 million dollar team is literally no better than what we accomplished with Dan or Jackie. Dan Mullen averaged around 7.5 wins a year at MSU. Lane Kiffin is only averaging a little over 8.1 wins at Ole Miss. I did some rounding there because I did it in my head but as you can see it's really not that much different. And really the only true marquee win they have had is the one that they had over Georgia.

Also- we just won 17 SEC games in baseball. We are a far cry from the worst team in the SEC.

And no I'm not the problem. I was one of the ones that said we needed to do a National Search instead of hiring Arnett. I said that hiring Barbay was a major risk. In fact had your little booster friends LISTENED to me instead of trying to get their access football would be much better. So, YOU are the problem because you have no clue how to win at anything and clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about based on the FACTS. But by all means keep listening to the people that burned this down to start with and take their advice on how to put this fire out.

And I will edit this to say this- the "baseball AD" who you blame left us a football coach that won 9 games before that coach passed away and several memorable wins in three years. It wasn't baseball or Cohen that ****ed things up after that now was it? Because Cohen was at Auburn when Leach passed away. Riddle your booster friends that shit while they blame people like me while they're holding the smoking matches in their hands.

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Originally Posted by BB30

Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

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Baseball in general makes better decisions. But baseball has also had some downs too. Ole Miss literally passed us (And probably USM too) between 2002-2010. Cann was a disaster. Trying to fix that situation was sloppy at best- see the Jim Schlossnagle saga.

Assuming we win 2 games this year that's actually only third time that has happened since 1980- 1988 and 2003 are the others.

That said, football needs to step it up. But it's absolutely foolish to drag baseball into in any way shape or form. Baseball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Basketball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Football needs to get fixed. I agree with everything that you are saying about football. But if even all they do is hire a quality DC- something that MSU has historically almost always been able to do across multiple eras even bad ones- that could go a long way towards improving thing in and of itself.

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Originally Posted by RockyDog

B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

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We also brought in a DJ. And he isn't playing Golden Oldies. Which is fine. I like the DJ and I think he was a great addition.

MSU needs a good mix of music because when you have 40K people you aren't play a song that everyone likes every time.

You bitch about "old" things but the group that wanted "Don't Stop Believing" to be replaced are also some of the same ones complaining about a bad atmosphere and tradition too.

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Originally Posted by basedog

Like I stated hiring the right guy is important.

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I think it's THE most important. People talk about baseball. What would it have been without Polk?

Look at Alabama. Completely different with Saban compared to DeBoer and Shula.

Winning games on the field is the most important thing. Even the people that are there to show off their dresses and tailgate have more fun when the team wins.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/...-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/g...n-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.

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The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

I didn't say that we were hitting our ceiling with any of those coaches. I said we had success with those coaches. What Ole Miss has accomplished with Kiffin and their 15-20 million dollar team is literally no better than what we accomplished with Dan or Jackie. Dan Mullen averaged around 7.5 wins a year at MSU. Lane Kiffin is only averaging a little over 8.1 wins at Ole Miss. I did some rounding there because I did it in my head but as you can see it's really not that much different. And really the only true marquee win they have had is the one that they had over Georgia.

Also- we just won 17 SEC games in baseball. We are a far cry from the worst team in the SEC.

And no I'm not the problem. I was one of the ones that said we needed to do a National Search instead of hiring Arnett. I said that hiring Barbay was a major risk. In fact had your little booster friends LISTENED to me instead of trying to get their access football would be much better. So, YOU are the problem because you have no clue how to win at anything and clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about based on the FACTS. But by all means keep listening to the people that burned this down to start with and take their advice on how to put this fire out.

And I will edit this to say this- the "baseball AD" who you blame left us a football coach that won 9 games before that coach passed away and several memorable wins in three years. It wasn't baseball or Cohen that ****ed things up after that now was it? Because Cohen was at Auburn when Leach passed away. Riddle your booster friends that shit while they blame people like me while they're holding the smoking matches in their hands.

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What ole Miss has done in the past 5 years is better than our entire history. You are using a Covid shortend all SEC schedule in your averages. I didn’t want to hire Arnett, but when we did I supported him, just as I will Lebby until he proves he can’t do the job. My little booster friends didn’t want to hire Arnett either. You propping up cohen is weird and stupid. He was the worst AD we have ever had. And I also don’t like Selmon, but he inherited a mess from your baseball bozo who refused to embrace NIL and his version of it was selling autographed 17ing baseballs

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Baseball in general makes better decisions. But baseball has also had some downs too. Ole Miss literally passed us (And probably USM too) between 2002-2010. Cann was a disaster. Trying to fix that situation was sloppy at best- see the Jim Schlossnagle saga.

Assuming we win 2 games this year that's actually only third time that has happened since 1980- 1988 and 2003 are the others.

That said, football needs to step it up. But it's absolutely foolish to drag baseball into in any way shape or form. Baseball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Basketball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Football needs to get fixed. I agree with everything that you are saying about football. But if even all they do is hire a quality DC- something that MSU has historically almost always been able to do across multiple eras even bad ones- that could go a long way towards improving thing in and of itself.

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I just found odd that basketball, baseball, soccer and other sports are doing but our cash cow is in the worst shape. The past administrations is the biggest reason why the football program is where it is today. That?s Kennum too.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Michigan announced they are committing $50MM per year to building a football team. We cant keep up and everybody knows it. Trying to pretend that we can is wasted time

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Michigan won't be able to put $50MM a year to just football very long either. Not one school in college football can do it long term.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t, moron.

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A good portion of that TN project is on hold now

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

A good portion of that TN project is on hold now

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Makes sense

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Originally Posted by Jarius

The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t.

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You should tell your booster friends. A SEC school that is "baseball focused" paying their football coach in the middle of the pack in the SEC flies in the face of your incorrect narrative.

And I'm pretty sure we offered Mullen more than we were going to pay Leach as well and he turned it down to go to Florida. And I would imagine that had Leach survived we would have at least matched Ole Miss's 7+ million for Kiffin with Kiffin getting a raise after that year.

One narrative after another blowing up in your face with facts.

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Originally Posted by Jarius

What ole Miss has done in the past 5 years is better than our entire history. You are using a Covid shortend all SEC schedule in your averages. I didn’t want to hire Arnett, but when we did I supported him, just as I will Lebby until he proves he can’t do the job. My little booster friends didn’t want to hire Arnett either. You propping up cohen is weird and stupid. He was the worst AD we have ever had. And I also don’t like Selmon, but he inherited a mess from your baseball bozo who refused to embrace NIL and his version of it was selling autographed 17ing baseballs

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I included the COVID year in Leach's totals as well. If I didn't include it Leach's average win total would be one game better and closer to Kiffin's so by including it I voluntarily hurt my position in the name of fairness. Kiffin lost 5 SEC games his first year so his record that year would have likely been about 6-6 anyway so the numbers aren't far apart even if you play the hypothetical game.

I was unaware of Ole Miss winning the SEC West Championship the past five years? Their season last year was the equivalent of our 1999 season and that is the season their fans have called "the best ever!" Actually our 1999 season was probably better as we never really got blown out that year unlike Ole Miss. And their season this year is roughly the equivalent of our 2018 season which so many of our fans have run down and called disappointing. Including losses to Kentucky and Florida. Except their Kentucky and LSU losses are way worse. Not to mention Kiffin and Ole Miss have had extremely favorable schedules the past few years- which is part of the reason why he has one marquee win in five years. Which is something Leach accomplished in 1 game and Dan accomplished in year one himself by winning the Egg Bowl. Basically Lane Kiffin is Dan Mullen without having to play Alabama every year. Actually, I take that back- he's worse than Dan because he has even fewer marquee wins.

Which is why your whole point about baseball is stupid. This is what I am talking about when I say that you want to destroy baseball so we can essentially have Dan Mullen seasons. Which we have consistently done anyway with the RIGHT coach- Dan, Leach, and Jackie. Except when they go all in on football and ruin everything else they are actually going to end up worse off because now they're going to have a disappointing football season and are probably going to have donate who knows how much more to keep the team from opting out of whatever bowl they go to. AND they're going to suck in the other sports as well such as basketball. Meanwhile we're trying to rebuild football but at least we're strong in basketball, women's soccer, women's basketball and baseball. Only a matter of time before football finally catches up and hopefully smarter people than you and your friends take control.

And Cohen? LOL. Guess who lead a coup and put him in charge as AD in the first place? That's already been answered in this thread.

And by the way- blindly supporting unqualified people like Arnett is WHY we are where we are right now as much as anything and one of the most poor Mississippi State things ever.

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Originally Posted by BigDawg81

I just found odd that basketball, baseball, soccer and other sports are doing but our cash cow is in the worst shape. The past administrations is the biggest reason why the football program is where it is today. That?s Kennum too.

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Well, just two years ago football was 9-4 and was one of the few teams that beat Ole Miss in Oxford during the Kiffin era. It's really simply a matter of hiring competent people to run the program from a coaching standpoint.

I said it earlier in another thread a few weeks ago- Hutzler's resume' compared to the other DC's in the SEC is laughable. If you had to pick "one of these isn't like the other" among the other DC's resume's you would obviously pick his. As would anyone else. Barbay had similar issues. I found out from talking to App State fans that he had been essentially demoted during the season and their head coach took over play calling. That should have been a major red flag along with the fact he couldn't communicate his offensive identity to anyone- probably because he has no clue what it is himself. When I revealed what I had found about Barbay I was told that I was an "Air Raid cult member". Arnett actually was worse than I thought he would be. And my expectations were pretty low. He was literally the worst head coach we ever had.

If we bring in a competent DC- even if it was Geoff Collins and I don't care for him as a coach at all- he would be an improvement. Give me the 27.whatever points that UNC is allowing and we're probably in a bowl with a decent chance to upset Ole Miss on Friday. I hope we bring in someone better than Geoff because we can though.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/...-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/g...n-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.

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Don't forget that we funded a $25 million football facility before the Dude too. And multiple multi- million dollar upgrades across the board to softball, indoor tennis, golf. We put upwards of $250m into athletic facilities in roughly a decade - at the same time we were fielding our highest paid football staff and having our biggest run in baseball. We can get facilities money and fund sports at the same time - or could - until Cohen burned the fundraising infrastructure to the ground.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

You should tell your booster friends. A SEC school that is "baseball focused" paying their football coach in the middle of the pack in the SEC flies in the face of your incorrect narrative.

And I'm pretty sure we offered Mullen more than we were going to pay Leach as well and he turned it down to go to Florida. And I would imagine that had Leach survived we would have at least matched Ole Miss's 7+ million for Kiffin with Kiffin getting a raise after that year.

One narrative after another blowing up in your face with facts.

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There is more to a budget than a coach’s salary. We have always had the smallest recruiting budget and support staff budget in the league. Compare that to our baseball program’s budget within the league. Compare our facilities in football to the rest of the league and then do so with baseball. Having the 8th highest paid coach in the conference and your in state rival doubling you up on money spent on off the field staff and recruiting isn’t the flex you think it is. That’s saying “8-4 is good enough”. That mindset would not fly in baseball. This university uses the cash cow as a rented mule paycheck to prop up a bunch of semi athletic white kids because they are too chicken sh*t to try and compete in the sport that everyone else cares about.