Braves

I want Bourn in cf. Maybin has been terrible defensively and his throws are terrible. I'd start Maybin in LF unless we're planning on trading him in the offseason. I want Bourn and Mallex in cf next year

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Originally Posted by msstate7

We've already stated that AJ won't be traded. We want to extend him. Bethancourt has had 1 passed ball at Gwinnett.

I didn't say I was giving up on those 3 rookie pitchers. I said I have zero confidence they would stick as starters. We can't give up on them. I would demote one or move 1 to bullpen in favor of Jackson though. Jackson has pitched well this year and I'd like to see him get a shot at starting again.

Bethancourt was pulled early last night so hopefully he gets promoted today

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That's right they did say that. So again what is Bethancourt going to bring you really? His batting numbers are inflated by a high BABIP. And at best his defense at AAA has been mixed with reports just earlier this month that he may be improving but not by much. Including his work ethic. I think they bring him back up but I think it will be limited. You showcase his lackluster defense behind the plate and he doesn't hit (like normal for him in the majors) then you his value plummets even further.

You can't say in one sentence you don't give up on them as starters but then demote one of them (when we have need for starters). You want to pull an older AJ, just for what reason I don't know other than Bethancourt is younger, even though he is the worse defender of the two. Just to see what the young catcher can do but you want to pull a young starter when this is the absolutely perfect time for them to be getting starts. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

Only reason I can think is if they want Bethancourt around AJ to hopefully learn something but him not playing very often doesn't help his trade value.

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Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe

Only reason I can think is if they want Bethancourt around AJ to hopefully learn something but him not playing very often doesn't help his trade value.

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Then why demote him to begin with? Why not keep him around this whole time learning from AJ? His value is pretty low but at least he has shown an offensive surge at AAA, though his numbers are inflated. If we are looking to trade in the offseason I don't think refreshing MLB scouts minds that he is basically a big arm helps. Maybe he takes a step forward but if he is the same player from earlier this season then his value drops even more.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

That's right they did say that. So again what is Bethancourt going to bring you really? His batting numbers are inflated by a high BABIP. And at best his defense at AAA has been mixed with reports just earlier this month that he may be improving but not by much. Including his work ethic. I think they bring him back up but I think it will be limited. You showcase his lackluster defense behind the plate and he doesn't hit (like normal for him in the majors) then you his value plummets even further.

You can't say in one sentence you don't give up on them as starters but then demote one of them (when we have need for starters). You want to pull an older AJ, just for what reason I don't know other than Bethancourt is younger, even though he is the worse defender of the two. Just to see what the young catcher can do but you want to pull a young starter when this is the absolutely perfect time for them to be getting starts. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.

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I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?

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What does starting Jackson do for us for the future? Playing AJ is still about the better catcher handling young pitchers. I'm not saying don't give him some looks but I rather have the pitchers getting the better catcher to evaluate them properly as well. It's not like wanting to see a young position player elsewhere. Let Bethancourt catch Terehan only. Or every 7th day.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

What does starting Jackson do for us for the future? Playing AJ is still about the better catcher handling young pitchers. I'm not saying don't give him some looks but I rather have the pitchers getting the better catcher to evaluate them properly as well. It's not like wanting to see a young position player elsewhere. Let Bethancourt catch Terehan only. Or every 7th day.

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Edwin is 31 and still has good stuff. In 34.1 ip, he's struck out 27. He could be valuable as a 5th starter or as a trade piece next season. AJ is 38.

Saw this on another board and found it interesting...

Melvin JR: 102 WRC+ and 0.9 WAR in 51 games

Markakis: 105 WRC+ and 1.0 WAR in 117 games

Maybin: 107 WRC_ and 1.4 WAR in 109 games

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Edwin is 31 and still has good stuff. In 34.1 ip, he's struck out 27. He could be valuable as a 5th starter or as a trade piece next season. AJ is 38.

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You keep going in a circle. You want to see what a young catcher has at the expense of an inexperienced staff but use a veteran pitcher over young pitchers who need innings. His last three years as a starter has produced 4.03, 4.98, 6.33 era's. He has never been more than a possible back end/bullpen arm. Give him a spot start maybe but that makes no sense to help determine our future starters. And he won't bring back much even if he pitches pretty well. His K and Walk numbers this year are almost the same as his career totals but he is benefitting well from not having to go through a complete lineup more than once. We know what Jackson is.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?

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I think they've already decided that Bethancourt is NOT our future.

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Originally Posted by RocketCityDawg

I think they've already decided that Bethancourt is NOT our future.

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I think you're right. I think this is why they put out that bashing bowman wrote about him. Bethancourt goes down, hits well, and has defended well, so we release an article saying his preparation sucks. Hart seems to wanna get rid of everybody wren left. Now I hear Teheran could be on the block as further evidence. Wouldn't surprise me if albies is next. I lost faith in hart after Fredi's extension and his man crush on Olivera.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

You keep going in a circle. You want to see what a young catcher has at the expense of an inexperienced staff but use a veteran pitcher over young pitchers who need innings. His last three years as a starter has produced 4.03, 4.98, 6.33 era's. He has never been more than a possible back end/bullpen arm. Give him a spot start maybe but that makes no sense to help determine our future starters. And he won't bring back much even if he pitches pretty well. His K and Walk numbers this year are almost the same as his career totals but he is benefitting well from not having to go through a complete lineup more than once. We know what Jackson is.

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Do we not know what AJ is by now? He's a very good BACKUP at this point of his career

BravesReddit
Albies has ascended up the ranks from the #35 prospect to the #12 prospect according to Kiley McDaniels
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-p...ospect-update/

At 18.6 years of age, he's the youngest on the list, so who knows where he wins up as he continues to develop.

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If hart trades this kid, I'm gonna blow a gasket.

Bethancourt at Gwinnett...

.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners

What more does he have to do?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Do we not know what AJ is by now? He's a very good BACKUP at this point of his career

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Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.

You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.

You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.

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You're right. Aj's presence behind the plate is doing wonders for our young starters. They've been terrific

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.

You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.

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Bethancourt's career high in walks in the minors is 17 for a year. Since his demotion, he has 11. Do you not think that's a sign of a maturing hitter?

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Bethancourt's career high in walks in the minors is 17 for a year. Since his demotion, he has 11. Do you not think that's a sign of a maturing hitter?

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Does the fact that his BABIP would put him in the top 10 in the MLB not register that his numbers are extremely inflated? He will not sustain those numbers. Now would I believe his power is starting to come? Yes. But he is not ever going to be a .300+ hitter. Maybe he is maturing, he should he is getting older and if his demotion didn't light a fire under his attitude then he may be a head case. And going back to your previous statement, if we are looking to get rid of him, why would the front office have a story manufactured that still puts him in a bad light? That makes absolutely no sense. If anything it would have me believe they may be sugar coating things with enough honesty to entice a buyer.

Btw, you're for letting wisler, Perez, and folty work out wrinkles at this level, but not Bethancourt. Here's their ages...

Folty 23
Wisler 22
Perez 24
Bethancourt 23

Why should I be patient with the starters, but not Bethancourt?

Also Bethancourt is working with who I think will be the best of the upper minor/barely mlb starters in Jenkins and doing a great job

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Originally Posted by msstate7

You're right. Aj's presence behind the plate is doing wonders for our young starters. They've been terrific

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They actually have had some good outings. The MLB hitters adjusted, they are still learning their craft, and they have to learn to adjust as well. How many hall of fame pitchers have numbers the same or worse their first couple of years? Tons. And if you think it would have been just as good or better with Bethancourt you are out of your mind.